Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[rkt.india]

4 hours ago, Vilander said:

Lee Akthar hit 160 in Wc rite and Bond is seen hitting 155. Look at some of his deliveries they are not all super quick for naked eye. 

i am saying those were peak years of Lee and AKhtar in terms of pace. They  both hit 155 plus speeds later too. lee his quickest ever over in 2005, hitting 158, 160, 161K in that over.

[Nikhil_cric]

19 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Damn! Md Sami bowls at 146.7 in PSL! At this age! Officially he says 37, but ideally should be 40! Gawddd!

 

I remember Zaheer Khan and Sami made debut around the same time and around then, Zaheer Khan used to be faster than him in top speed! Sami used to be a 140 and a max of 145 when on song for almost 2-3 yrs until suddenly he started bowling in 150's!

 

Overall, I am happy to see some of the bowlers from my era and closer to my age still bowling express!

I think Sami's age is legit. As for his pace, when Sami debuted he was , I believe only 19 years old so I guess him bowling at his quickest around 2003-2005 is not that big a surprise since most fast bowlers start bowling their quickest around that time . Wasted talent if ever there was one. 

[Vilander]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

i am saying those were peak years of Lee and AKhtar in terms of pace. They  both hit 155 plus speeds later too. lee his quickest ever over in 2005, hitting 158, 160, 161K in that over.

again those were in Australia rite ? i am not saying they were not fast, but i think there is a degree of variance between speed guns across the world Aus and in particular 2003 WC in SA had faster readings( its not all bowlers trying to go full out because its WC - some of it down to speed guns calibration). Again this is speculative, i remember one of Lee's earlier fast ball 161.8 was dismissed as a speed gun error i dont remember but there was one, he hit 160 multiple times later on so in my mind may be he hit it similarly earlier..with a good speed gun.

[Vilander]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

it certainly looked quick to me.  look at how far back the keeper is standing and still carrying comfortably.

dips a litte compared to other balls but is easily the quickest. i am not convinced that its is 155. Some of those pace balls from Akthar in asia and elsewhere used to look faster but could be camera angles resolution video frame rate etc..you never know. Overall i suspect SA WC gave 4-5ks benefit to bowlers in terms of speed.

[Vilander]

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Most pacers clocked " higher than their normal speeds "  in the 2003 WC

it could be down to them playing to the occasion ( one of the best cricket world cups with several good teams even Zim and Kenya were decent) but i think it could have been a harmless unintentional case of taking fastest speed gun readings.

[rkt.india]

42 minutes ago, Vilander said:

again those were in Australia rite ? i am not saying they were not fast, but i think there is a degree of variance between speed guns across the world Aus and in particular 2003 WC in SA had faster readings( its not all bowlers trying to go full out because its WC - some of it down to speed guns calibration). Again this is speculative, i remember one of Lee's earlier fast ball 161.8 was dismissed as a speed gun error i dont remember but there was one, he hit 160 multiple times later on so in my mind may be he hit it similarly earlier..with a good speed gun.

In New Zealand in 2005. watch this and tell if this is not quick. 

 

if 

[Rightarmfast]

2 hours ago, Vilander said:

it could be down to them playing to the occasion ( one of the best cricket world cups with several good teams even Zim and Kenya were decent) but i think it could have been a harmless unintentional case of taking fastest speed gun readings.

I am more than sure that the pace was genuine. And I can give you some quotes too. While Nehra and Zaheer clocked 145+ consistently, Srinath bowled at his usual pace of 138ish which he was bowling in previous series and for the past 2-3 yrs. He clocked 143.7k's once in the tournament, which was totally legit. Wasim and Waqar bowled around 135-138ish which was their regular pace, so did Mcgrath. 

Nehra, who found his rhythm the entire series, clocked 149.7, and immediately the next day, Andy Flower, who had faced that entire over, made a comment in the press that the Indian bowlers ' had gotten faster'. I seriously doubt he saw the speed gun reading and said so. He experienced it. The whole English team made statements that the Indians bowled the fastest as a unit and also bowled heavy balls and hence were the toughest pace wise. Zaheer Khan tried to bowl genuine quick the entire series and at the end, when it was visible he was trying for pace, he clocked 148 but got tonked all over!

 

Also, like rkt said before, Brett Lee and Shoaib were at the peak of their career around 2003, hence the speeds too. They clocked similar pace across the world around the same time!

 

Hence, I dont think the speed guns showed the fastest speeds. In my view, they were genuine.

[Vilander]

10 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

I am more than sure that the pace was genuine. And I can give you some quotes too. While Nehra and Zaheer clocked 145+ consistently, Srinath bowled at his usual pace of 138ish which he was bowling in previous series and for the past 2-3 yrs. He clocked 143.7k's once in the tournament, which was totally legit. Wasim and Waqar bowled around 135-138ish which was their regular pace, so did Mcgrath. 

Nehra, who found his rhythm the entire series, clocked 149.7, and immediately the next day, Andy Flower, who had faced that entire over, made a comment in the press that the Indian bowlers ' had gotten faster'. I seriously doubt he saw the speed gun reading and said so. He experienced it. The whole English team made statements that the Indians bowled the fastest as a unit and also bowled heavy balls and hence were the toughest pace wise. Zaheer Khan tried to bowl genuine quick the entire series and at the end, when it was visible he was trying for pace, he clocked 148 but got tonked all over!

 

Also, like rkt said before, Brett Lee and Shoaib were at the peak of their career around 2003, hence the speeds too. They clocked similar pace across the world around the same time!

 

Hence, I dont think the speed guns showed the fastest speeds. In my view, they were genuine.

We only have anecdotes and speculations on either side bottomline is these speeds are considered legitimate. So they indeed bowled those speed gun calibration or otherwise. But i bet the first Indian to hit 160 will do so while playing in Australia.

[rkt.india]

9 minutes ago, Vilander said:

We only have anecdotes and speculations on either side bottomline is these speeds are considered legitimate. So they indeed bowled those speed gun calibration or otherwise. But i bet the first Indian to hit 160 will do so while playing in Australia.

but WC 2003 was not played in Australia

[Rightarmfast]

12 minutes ago, Vilander said:

We only have anecdotes and speculations on either side bottomline is these speeds are considered legitimate. So they indeed bowled those speed gun calibration or otherwise. But i bet the first Indian to hit 160 will do so while playing in Australia.

Bro, WC 2003 was played in South Africa. And the speed guns seemed legit this time around. If anything, the Indian bowlers were bowling slower which was puzzling!

[Vilander]

38 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

but WC 2003 was not played in Australia

Yes captain obvious. I am saying Aus used fastest speed gun reading.

[Vilander]

36 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Bro, WC 2003 was played in South Africa. And the speed guns seemed legit this time around. If anything, the Indian bowlers were bowling slower which was puzzling!

Its always normal in SA, only 2003 wc was the exception it was more like in Aus where everyone gets a bit faster normally.

[express bowling]

We need to find a good quality express bowler like Starc ...  someone who can bowl in good areas while clocking 140 k to 152 k.

 

Starc showed what really high pace and reverse swing  with control can achieve ...  running through SA on a track which looked flat for seamers on day 2.

 

Khaleel and Nagarkoti are the ones who can bowl close to 150 k ...  and are good bowlers too.  They need to be groomed with extra attention.

 

I hope more new prospects come to the fore.

 

 

Edited March 3, 2018 by express bowling

[Rightarmfast]

While I agree India, or any other country can do with bowlers clocking 150, dont agree about the Starc reference. I watched the whole of the match and Starc did not look threatening for majority of the play. Especially during the opening spells were boring even though he was clocking 150. His pace had little effect on batsmen. As they say, there are days when things work your way. Thats what happened to Starc. Lyon and Cummins were more impressive.

 

Had India held on to the catches in South Africa and the missed chances, things may have been different.

[Vilander]

4 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

While I agree India, or any other country can do with bowlers clocking 150, dont agree about the Starc reference. I watched the whole of the match and Starc did not look threatening for majority of the play. Especially during the opening spells were boring even though he was clocking 150. His pace had little effect on batsmen. As they say, there are days when things work your way. Thats what happened to Starc. Lyon and Cummins were more impressive.

 

Had India held on to the catches in South Africa and the missed chances, things may have been different.

I did not see the game but read he got reverse swing. India did not play in durban but yeah did any of our bowlers get it to reverse. Starc is doing something well. But indian loss was down to poor batting mostly.

[rkt.india]

9 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

While I agree India, or any other country can do with bowlers clocking 150, dont agree about the Starc reference. I watched the whole of the match and Starc did not look threatening for majority of the play. Especially during the opening spells were boring even though he was clocking 150. His pace had little effect on batsmen. As they say, there are days when things work your way. Thats what happened to Starc. Lyon and Cummins were more impressive.

 

Had India held on to the catches in South Africa and the missed chances, things may have been different.

Cummins also bowled 150

[rkt.india]

4 hours ago, Vilander said:

I did not see the game but read he got reverse swing. India did not play in durban but yeah did any of our bowlers get it to reverse. Starc is doing something well. But indian loss was down to poor batting mostly.

And bad bowling at crucial moments. Our bowlers failed to seize the right moments and fielders also played their part in that.

[MCcricket]

what selectors n captains n coaches in india fail to understand is we need a very competetive boling pool not just one or two bowlers n not to waste time n energy in whetting mediocre n poor bowlers like Shardul n Unadkunt, Shami has been up n down ,Bhuvi is good but not as versatile, we need to bring in Saini, Khalil, Aniket, Ankit, Umesh, Aaron, n make fast bowlers compete n hu t in pairs n also this way if a bowler has poor form or not unfit we have a good replacment  like Australia has, its time Aaron ,Saini, Ankit, Aniket, Sangwan, L Yadav, Khalil, Khejroliya come into the picture.

Also with a stronger pool n competetion for places bowlers will try harder n bowl with intensity, same goes with batsmen, most our problems starts n ends with selections, squad n playing 11 selections r keeping us from becoming a force.

[Insidious]

5 hours ago, Vilander said:

I did not see the game but read he got reverse swing. India did not play in durban but yeah did any of our bowlers get it to reverse. Starc is doing something well. But indian loss was down to poor batting mostly.

I think Shami got the reverse swing going in the third test at wanderers.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Insidious

[Insidious]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

And bad bowling at crucial moments. Our bowlers failed to seize the right moments and fielders also played their part in that.

our Problem was  our two mainstream fast bowlers who were instrumental to our rise to No.1 Test ranking, suddenly lost their rhythm and form. Umesh, who was totally world-class against Australia, suddenly lost his pace (at least 5 ks) and rhythm in srilanka. Shami, after being recovered from his injury, is not the same force, he used to be. It is very difficult to recover as a team, when two of your best fast bowlers, suddenly became so  in-effective,  before the start of a big series. We are lucky that we had Bumrah , otherwise it would have been shambolic.