Rohit is Good but We will be better without him as well..

[CG]

Nobody thought he wouldn't against SL. When was the last time he owned AUS, NZ, SA, ENG? He even faltered against 'nothing special' Amir (in his own view). 

He owns Australia all the time.

[jusarrived]

20 hours ago, Tibarn said:

@Pollack

 

Nah, I understand that you guys want someone who scores at a high strike rate as opener and particularly for the power-play. IMO you guys are overrating the power-play scoring at the start of a match, the 1st 10 overs. In my opinion, the last 10 overs are where we are found wanting. The 1st ten overs it's better to have a decent score and not lose wickets IMO

 

Here are some numbers

http://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/92206/one-day-internationals-crickets-350-plus-runs-upsurge-a-numbers-story

1) Average & run rates at various stages of 300+ totals:

 

 

	30 Oct 2012 - 04 Jul 2015			05 Jul 2015 onwards
	RR	Avg	BPB	RR	Avg	BPB
O 1-10	5.36	72.11	7.92	5.95	71.24	6.94
O 11-40	6.12	68.02	9.62	6.23	71.75	9.77
O 41-50	10.01	35.13	4.66	9.45	31.06	5.64

 

 

(Note: BPB refers to ball per boundary)

 

We can see that the average powerplay score went from 54 runs to 60 runs, when teams score 300. Cool, on average we probably bat slower than that.  

 

However, in the bulk of the innings, overs 11-40, we are usually #1 or #2 to the Aussies in RR. Our lads take singles like no other team. That is where the bulk of the runs are scored.  

 

Also the final 10 overs are where batsmen are expected to go crazy. Even in the modern game. 9.45 RR in the last 10 overs vs 5.95 in the 1st 10 implies what I said, we need to focus on bring our RR up in the last 10. 

 

We can see that teams still score at a higher RR in both the middle and death overs, when compared to the 1st 10 overs. 

 

2) Team-wise distribution of 300+ totals:

 

	30 Oct 2012 - 04 Jul 2015			05 Jul 2015 onwards
	300+ scores	Inngs	Percentage	300+ scores	Inngs	Percentage
Aus	19	53	35.85%	11	39	28.21%
Ban	5	42	11.90%	0	15	0.00%
Eng	11	62	17.74%	13	30	43.33%
Ind	16	73	21.92%	7	24	29.17%
NZ	12	60	20.00%	3	27	11.11%
Pak	7	66	10.61%	6	28	21.43%
SA	16	61	26.23%	12	34	35.29%
SL	13	79	16.46%	6	33	18.18%
WI	7	54	12.96%	1	17	5.88%
Zim	2	39	5.13%	1	33	3.03%

  

 

We are 3rd in the world since July 2015 in terms of how many of our innings end up in us scoring over 300 runs. Our share of innings over 300 has also increased from 22 percent to 29 percent of our innings being 300 scores. 

 

3) Contribution of each batsman in India's 300+ totals:

 

When we do score 300+ scores, our runs tend to come from 3 batsmen, in order: 1) Rohit, 2) Kohli, 3) Dhawan. 

 

Finally

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=win_loss_ratio;spanmin1=05+Jul+2015;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team

4) WL Record

 

Overall figures

Team	Span	Mat	Won	Lost	Tied	NR	W/L	Ave	RPO	Inns	HS	LS
England	2015-2017	42	27	13	1	1	2.076	40.41	6.06	42	444	138
Hong Kong	2015-2017	10	6	3	0	1	2.000	30.62	5.03	10	298	174
India	2015-2017	37	23	13	0	1	1.769	45.95	5.74	37	381	158
South Africa	2015-2017	44	27	16	0	1	1.687	39.51	5.76	44	438	162
Australia	2015-2017	45	25	17	0	3	1.470	36.55	5.80	44	378	142
Afghanistan	2015-2017	32	17	13	0	2	1.307	25.29	4.70	31	338	58
New Zealand	2015-2017	41	22	17	0	2	1.294	33.73	5.57	41	344	79
Bangladesh	2015-2017	26	12	11	0	3	1.090	32.31	5.31	25	324	160
Pakistan	2015-2017	36	18	18	0	0	1.000	37.24	5.58	36	338	164
Scotland	2016-2017	11	4	5	0	2	0.800	27.54	5.05	10	327	132
Sri Lanka	2015-2017	49	16	28	1	4	0.571	31.29	5.40	47	377	117
U.A.E.	2015-2017	11	4	7	0	0	0.571	24.43	4.69	11	292	146
Zimbabwe	2015-2017	45	15	28	1	1	0.535	23.66	4.62	45	322	54
P.N.G.	2016-2017	6	2	4	0	0	0.500	21.78	4.48	6	244	148
Ireland	2015-2017	26	7	18	0	1	0.388	24.55	4.88	25	304	82
West Indies	2015-2017	31	7	21	1	2	0.333	24.33	4.83	29	329	116

 

We're 2nd in W-L ratio to England since July 2015, but our runs per wicket comes out on top at 45 while England's is 40. Our runs per over (RPO) is basically the same as SA and Australia. England is way ahead of everyone at 6 RPO. 

 

All this to me implies that we don't have a problem with Rohit as opener. When a batsman is the top contributor to your 300 plus scores, he is not the problem. It's the lower-middle and lower order that needs to improve to give us those extra 30-40 runs. We can't have players like Rahane and Yuvraj down the order in the last 10 overs, when we need to hit the gas. It's the last 10 overs where we lose the plot, even when our top 3 set us up, IMO.

 

so all this theory is based in few matches India got a 300+ total ? why do you assume getting to 300+ is any achievement when we are regularly play on pitches where even 350 does not feel safe ?  Most of these scores are batting first and on a flat pitch the lower/middle order cannot aggregate the kind of runs a Top3 can cos the Top 3 end up consuming 30-40 overs every match .so this who graph of % contribution of each batsmen is pretty stupid tbh . 

 

What you failed to see even in this stat is that of the 10 matches India posted 300+ totals in last 2 years , we lost 5 of those . 

And guess what , Sharma opened in 4 of those matches  and scored 414 runs at an average of 103 . 

The three big scores all when we batted first  171 (163) , 124(127) and 78(79) while adds beautifully to his personal stats , did not help the team post a above par total . 

off the 5 matches we won , he did not play in 3 . The two matches we won . Have a look at it please , both matches required absolute blinders from Pandey in one and Yuvi/Virat/Pandya in other to win in the end . 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/11188/scorecard/895815/Australia-vs-India-5th-ODI

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8037/scorecard/1022353/India-vs-Pakistan-4th-Match-Group-B

 

 

So 10 matches of 300+ , India won 3/4 when Rohit was not in the team and lost 4/6 when he played and apparently played well according to you ? 

 

if you think losing 50% of your matches is normal , then go look at the period before that . 2012-215 we post 17 300+ totals and we lost only 2 . Most people will admit that our ODI bowling in last 2 years has been much better than we had before 2015 , so how are we losing more games now ? The pitches and game has only gone more inf favour of batsmen . 

 

 

 

 

[Vilander]

8 hours ago, Pollack said:

Nobody thought he wouldn't against SL. When was the last time he owned AUS, NZ, SA, ENG? He even faltered against 'nothing special' Amir (in his own view). 

dude we would have lost poorly if not for him yesterday. thats all that matters.

[Tibarn]

47 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

so all this theory is based in few matches India got a 300+ total ? why do you assume getting to 300+ is any achievement when we are regularly play on pitches where even 350 does not feel safe ?  Most of these scores are batting first and on a flat pitch the lower/middle order cannot aggregate the kind of runs a Top3 can cos the Top 3 end up consuming 30-40 overs every match .so this who graph of % contribution of each batsmen is pretty stupid tbh . 

You don't have to like whatever numbers I bring, but what numbers have you brought that Rohit should be replaced? 

 

50 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

What you failed to see even in this stat is that of the 10 matches India posted 300+ totals in last 2 years , we lost 5 of those .

 Does Rohit bowl as well?  Rohit is the only batsman in the team?

 

Tell the captain to drop non-wicket takers like Ashwin and Jadeja, to stop selecting over-the-hill players like Yuvraj, and stop playing ODI misfits like Rahane and maybe we would have won more of the games. 

 

If you want to reduce success as a opening batsman to whether your team wins or loses, then Rohit is still better than all the players with higher strike rates and lower averages. We have the 2nd best W-L record since the WC, and we reached the final of the CT 2017. Rohit was our 2nd leading scorer in the tournament. 

 

Here is the chart of run-scoring leaders from the CT 2017

Most runs

Player	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
S Dhawan (INDIA)	5	5	0	338	125	67.60	332	101.80	1	2	0	44	4
RG Sharma (INDIA)	5	5	1	304	123*	76.00	350	86.85	1	2	1	29	7
Tamim Iqbal (BDESH)	4	4	0	293	128	73.25	340	86.17	1	2	1	25	7
JE Root (ENG)	4	4	1	258	133*	86.00	264	97.72	1	1	0	19	3
V Kohli (INDIA)	5	5	3	258	96*	129.00	261	98.85	0	3	1	26	4
Fakhar Zaman (PAK)	4	4	0	252	114	63.00	223	113.00	1	2	0	33	5
KS Williamson (NZ)	3	3	0	244	100	81.33	264	92.42	1	2	0	21	3
Azhar Ali (PAK)	5	5	0	228	76	45.60	308	74.02	0	3	0	20	3
EJG Morgan (ENG)	4	4	1	208	87	69.33	207	100.48	0	2	0	22	7
BA Stokes (ENG)	4	3	1	184	102*	92.00	226	81.41	1	0	0	17	4
Shakib Al Hasan (BDESH)	4	4	0	168	114	42.00	194	86.59	1	0	0	16	1
AD Hales (ENG)	4	4	0	164	95	41.00	165	99.39	0	2	1	16	4
Mushfiqur Rahim (BDESH)	4	4	0	163	79	40.75	211	77.25	0	2	0	14	0
HM Amla (SA)	3	3	0	154	103	51.33	189	81.48	1	0	0	10	3
LRPL Taylor (NZ)	3	3	0	148	63	49.33	199	74.37	0	1	0	15	0
Mohammad Hafeez (PAK)	5	5	2	148	57*	49.33	159	93.08	0	1	0	10	6
F du Plessis (SA)	3	3	0	137	75	45.66	164	83.53	0	1	0	8	0
Mahmudullah (BDESH)	4	4	2	137	102*	68.50	149	91.94	1	0	0	10	3
Babar Azam (PAK)	5	5	2	133	46	44.33	178	74.71	0	0	0	12	1
BKG Mendis (SL)	3	3	0	127	89	42.33	132	96.21	0	1	0	17	1
N Dickwella (SL)	3	3	0	121	73	40.33	137	88.32	0	1	0	9	1
Q de Kock (SA)	3	3	0	109	53	36.33	163	66.87	0	1	0	8	0
HH Pandya (INDIA)	5	3	1	105	76	52.50	54	194.44	0	1	0	4	10
Yuvraj Singh (INDIA)	5	4	1	105	53	35.00	106	99.05	0	1	0	13	2
AJ Finch (AUS)	3	3	0	95	68	31.66	109	87.15	0	1	0	11	0
JC Buttler (ENG)	4	3	2	94	61*	94.00	87	108.04	0	1	0	5	3
DA Miller (SA)	3	3	1	94	75*	47.00	129	72.86	0	1	0	2	4
AD Mathews (SL)	2	2	1	91	52*	91.00	99	91.91	0	1	0	8	1
MDKJ Perera (SL)	2	2	2	91	47*	-	110	82.72	0	0	0	10	0
MD Gunathilaka (SL)	2	2	0	89	76	44.50	92	96.73	0	1	0	9	2
MJ Guptill (NZ)	3	3	0	86	33	28.66	90	95.55	0	0	0	13	1

 

Only 5 batsmen who were among the runs even scored at over a 100 strike rate.  Of those, the openers were only:  Dhawan and Zaman. If you want to say Dhawan is better than Rohit, I'm game, I like him better. Zaman has a grand total of 4 career innings. 

 

Morgan is a middle order batsman. Pandya and Butler come in at the end of an innings and are expected to score boundaries mostly. 

 

Someone like QDK  only scored at an average of 36.33 at a strike rate of 66.87. Warner 39 at 93 strike rate.  If Rohit would have slogged blindly to reach a high strike rate and averaged less than 40, would that have helped the team? 

 

We all saw how great the rest of the team was when Rohit (and Dhawan/Kohli) got out early in the CT final.  

 

 

1 hour ago, jusarrived said:

And guess what , Sharma opened in 4 of those matches  and scored 414 runs at an average of 103 . 

The three big scores all when we batted first  171 (163) , 124(127) and 78(79) while adds beautifully to his personal stats , did not help the team post a above par total . 

off the 5 matches we won , he did not play in 3 . The two matches we won . Have a look at it please , both matches required absolute blinders from Pandey in one and Yuvi/Virat/Pandya in other to win in the end . 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/11188/scorecard/895815/Australia-vs-India-5th-ODI

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8037/scorecard/1022353/India-vs-Pakistan-4th-Match-Group-B

Cool, we don't win every match that Rohit opens... We still have a better W/L record than de Kock and Warner's teams. Maybe they should quit  being selfish and bat according to the situation, like Rohit. 

 

The 1st match you give

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/11188/scorecard/895815/Australia-vs-India-5th-ODI

We beat Australia. Warner scored 122 off 107 balls, but we chased down the total. His team lost. If you try to spin it that Rohit is a selfish batsman, then I can spin it that Warner is selfish based off this match. Warner shouldn't have been selfish and instead valued his wicket and saw his team through to a matchwinning score. After he got out, the Aussies mostly collapsed, until Marsh rescued the innings scoring 102 off 84.  

 

The 122 off 107 was nice for Warner's personal stats and his reputation as an aggressive batsman, but ultimately he failed to get his team a win. He should be replaced. 

 

The 2nd match

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8037/scorecard/1022353/India-vs-Pakistan-4th-Match-Group-B

Cool, Rohit scored slower than anyone else in the batting lineup in this match. He under-performed relative to Dhawan and Kohli. We won the match. The padoisis scored a grand total of 164 runs.  We beat them by a grand total of 124 runs. This didn't requrie a blinder from Yuvraj/Pandya to win. This match only shows the obvious point: bowlers have to do their job as well.

 

You can't blame Rohit for when the team loses with a 300+ score, and also blame him when it wins with a 300+ score. If the bowlers do their jobs, a 300+ score is always difficult to chase.  

 

1 hour ago, jusarrived said:

So 10 matches of 300+ , India won 3/4 when Rohit was not in the team and lost 4/6 when he played and apparently played well according to you ? 

 

if you think losing 50% of your matches is normal , then go look at the period before that . 2012-215 we post 17 300+ totals and we lost only 2 . Most people will admit that our ODI bowling in last 2 years has been much better than we had before 2015 , so how are we losing more games now ? The pitches and game has only gone more inf favour of batsmen .

The last 2 years we are also have the 2nd best in W/L record and we were finalists in the CT.  

 

Here are the overall performances of our batsmen the last 2 years

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=win_loss_ratio;spanmin1=05+Jul+2015;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
V Kohli	2015-2017	31	31	8	1760	154*	76.52	1799	97.83	6	11	1	147	30
RG Sharma	2015-2017	23	23	3	1305	171*	65.25	1401	93.14	5	6	1	123	39
S Dhawan	2015-2017	25	25	1	1110	132*	46.25	1118	99.28	3	7	0	143	15
MS Dhoni	2015-2017	34	26	6	988	134	49.40	1170	84.44	1	6	1	66	25
AM Rahane	2015-2017	20	19	0	868	103	45.68	1045	83.06	1	9	0	84	11
KM Jadhav	2016-2017	24	14	5	420	120	46.66	325	129.23	1	1	2	44	11
Yuvraj Singh	2017-2017	11	10	1	372	150	41.33	377	98.67	1	1	0	46	7
HH Pandya	2016-2017	20	11	3	289	76	36.12	217	133.17	0	2	1	17	15
KL Rahul	2016-2017	9	8	2	241	100*	40.16	299	80.60	1	1	0	20	4
MK Pandey	2016-2016	11	8	3	190	104*	38.00	185	102.70	1	0	1	16	2
AR Patel	2015-2017	15	8	2	122	38	20.33	139	87.76	0	0	0	4	5
RA Jadeja	2016-2017	15	10	5	110	24*	22.00	108	101.85	0	0	0	8	1
AT Rayudu	2016-2016	3	2	2	103	62*	-	164	62.80	0	1	0	12	0

 

All our top 3 batsmen score at less than a 100 strike rate. Are they all  selfish and should be dropped for players with 100+ strike rates.  Or is it your contention that only Rohit is selfish for scoring at below a 100 strike rate, or maybe that only Rohit going under a 100 strike rate costs us matches? If Dhawan or Kohli go under 100, we win, but if Rohit does it we lose? 

 

Here is our bowling in the last 2 years

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	Ave	Econ	SR	4	5
KM Jadhav	2016-2017	24	14	55.5	0	291	14	3/29	20.78	5.21	23.9	0	0
JJ Bumrah	2016-2017	19	19	165.5	10	779	37	5/27	21.05	4.69	26.8	3	1
AR Patel	2015-2017	15	15	137.4	5	544	17	3/34	32.00	3.95	48.5	0	0
UT Yadav	2015-2017	20	19	164.1	5	1021	29	3/30	35.20	6.21	33.9	0	0
HH Pandya	2016-2017	20	19	140.2	2	761	21	3/31	36.23	5.42	40.0	0	0
R Ashwin	2015-2017	12	11	98.4	1	572	11	3/28	52.00	5.79	53.8	0	0
B Kumar	2015-2017	20	19	161.1	9	929	17	3/41	54.64	5.76	56.8	0	0
RA Jadeja	2016-2017	15	15	140.0	1	738	11	2/43	67.09	5.27	76.3	0	0

 

Surprise, surprise. 3 of our main players all have a bowling average of above 50. You can't play 3 players: Bhuvi, Jadeja, and Ashwin, who don't take wickets and expect to win ODI matches. Bhuvi one can understand to a degree, he is our 2nd best death bowler after Bumrah, so one could argue he is needed in the team until we find a death bowling partner for Bumrah. 

 

Bumrah is already statistically better than all our pacers. He has a better economy rate, takes wickets at an elite level, and is a gun death bowler.

 

 Jadhav, at best a part-timer, and Axar a relative newbie, both outperform our main spinners Jadeja/Ashwin. 

 

If we start dropping non-performing bowlers, then we will see wins increase as well.  

[maniac]

Only batsman in the world capable of hitting more 200s....he is the nuclear weapon in the armory.....when fires will cause death,destruction and ruins

[SK_IH]

12 hours ago, CG said:

20 hours ago, Pollack said:

Nobody thought he wouldn't against SL. When was the last time he owned AUS, NZ, SA, ENG? He even faltered against 'nothing special' Amir (in his own view). 

He owns Australia all the time.

wc semi final 34 of 50 ball chasing 330 odd,fail

wt20 match vs aus ,must win game ,12 of 20 balls ,fail again 

 

gets owned when it actually matters and look at that strike rate,pedestrian

 

well played last innings hitman,keep up the strike rate at the start always ,more singles please