Next gen Indian batting talents - Plenty of Flash, but light on grit?

[rkt.india]

Soon we will have different teams for different formats. Not every youngster is flashy. There is a mix of them. You can't make Dravid out of Sehwag or vice-versa. Every cricketer has a game that comes to him naturally. So, there is a certain element of natural game in every top cricketer. Like bowling fast came naturally to Brett Lee. It was his natural game. I don't think anyone would ask him to slow down and try to bowl like McGrath.

[rkt.india]

I don't believe a Pujara could bat like Rohit. No because it doesn't come to him naturally. Same is the case with Rahane. You need natural power to bat like Sehwag, Yuvraj, or Rohit. Pujara and Rahane doesn't have that. I don't believe just because we have IPL, every young Batsman will start batting like Rohit or Sehwag.  Cricket is a game of natural ability. If you are a medium pacer, you won't start bowling fast. Same way a defensive Batsman won't become Sehwag.  A Batsman always play what comes to him naturally. What Dravid is saying is adjusting to the conditions and situations. Why is he expecting 19-20 year olds to do that. Such things come with experience.  And then it also depends on ability and skills of Batsman to adjust. Such young players won't have a completely developed game like how rotate strike, when to take chance. 

[CG]

30 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

I don't believe a Pujara could bat like Rohit. No because it doesn't come to him naturally. Same is the case with Rahane. You need natural power to bat like Sehwag, Yuvraj, or Rohit. Pujara and Rahane doesn't have that. I don't believe just because we have IPL, every young Batsman will start batting like Rohit or Sehwag.  Cricket is a game of natural ability. If you are a medium pacer, you won't start bowling fast. Same way a defensive Batsman won't become Sehwag.  A Batsman always play what comes to him naturally. What Dravid is saying is adjusting to the conditions and situations. Why is he expecting 19-20 year olds to do that. Such things come with experience.  And then it also depends on ability and skills of Batsman to adjust. Such young players won't have a completely developed game like how rotate strike, when to take chance. 

Rohit is more timing than power.

[rkt.india]

6 minutes ago, CG said:

Rohit is more timing than power.

Yes timing is there but he natural power to go too. Laxman also had timing but not much power. Timing alone won't make you hit sixes.

[express bowling]

To find gritty batsmen like Dravid, one must look at the 4-day A-team batters.

Panchal, Samarth, Vihari, Bawne, Shankar .... do they have grit  ?

 

Even Nair may not be short on grit and has failed in recent times more due to technical issues.

 

Trying to find grit in Pant and Iyer is like trying to find grit in Sehwag or Warner.

 

p.s - I would want every batter to play according to the situation, but it is easier said than done.  I am more pissed off at experienced batters like Kedar and Pandey who have thrown away their wickets in the name of natural game.

 

Young batters like Pant and Iyer may take some time to learn how to adjust to different situations.

 

Edited October 19, 2017 by express bowling

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, G_B_ said:

@sandeep

 

excellent op

 

can icf use it as an article?

Of course.  

[fineleg]

34 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Trying to find grit in Pant and Iyer is like trying to find grit in Sehwag or Warner.

 

 

Sehwag and Warner both have grit. Their flamboyance notwithstanding.

[sandeep]

34 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Young batters like Pant and Iyer may take some time to learn how to adjust to different situations.

Of course younger players should be given a long rope to learn to adapt etc. I have no qualms if a Rishabh Pant fails a few times.  But like you said, a Manish Pandey getting himself out in a crucial situation, trying to run the ball to third-man is atrocious shot selection from a guy who's been "around" for a bit.  I mean, even experienced players can have brain-farts once in a while, but Manish got himself out playing that stupid dab twice in the handful of games against Australia.  Shreyas Iyer is a guy that I will expect to show improvement on this front - again, no issues if he fails a few times.  That's cricket.  But if he keeps throwing away his wicket with poor shot selection, in this silly quest to maintain his self-image as a batsman who "dominates" bowlers, then its a problem that needs to be addressed.   In any event, I posted my thoughts in this thread not to single out an Iyer or a Pandey.   Just more of a general observation of a fan on the developing trends in Indian cricket.  

 

1 hour ago, gattaca said:

IPL skills for bat are well payed but depends on skills on batsman and willing to learn. IPL is a shortcut for fame and money but playing for India is ultimate goal for a pure cricketer. If someone is  only interested in money then IPL makes sense. This is actually better since now we will have people who are only really interested in cricket playing for India. Also op forgot to all shubham gill.

I don't know much about Shubham Gill apart from the fact that he did well on the u19 series against England, home and away.  And saw a nice little 2 min promotional video made by Cricinfo.  

 

Armaan Jaffer is one young kid, who is supposedly old school in his batting approach, and is considered to have potential.   And I'm sure there are others out there.  

 

 

[sandeep]

8 minutes ago, fineleg said:

Sehwag and Warner both have grit. Their flamboyance notwithstanding.

+1.   One of my favorite Veeru innings is his away hundred in the 2007-08 series in Australia.  It wasn't his usual slam-bang stuff.  It was a "You shall not Pass" effort.   And one of his finest.  Veeru had an under-rated defensive game.  And he drew the right lessons from his 195 at Melbourne.   He was quoted after getting caught off fulltoss, saying that he was satisfied with the runs he scored.  And a few years later, he was quoted as saying that he later realized that his dismissal ended up causing India to lose that match - he had the Aussies on the mat before he went for that hoick, and it would have been a very different game, if he had batted on for even another 30-40 minutes or so.  

 

Even Warner is not a guy who throws it away.   He is a Sehwag shishya in the truest sense of the word.  Especially in test cricket.  

[express bowling]

2 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Of course younger players should be given a long rope to learn to adapt etc. I have no qualms if a Rishabh Pant fails a few times.  But like you said, a Manish Pandey getting himself out in a crucial situation, trying to run the ball to third-man is atrocious shot selection from a guy who's been "around" for a bit.  I mean, even experienced players can have brain-farts once in a while, but Manish got himself out playing that stupid dab twice in the handful of games against Australia.  Shreyas Iyer is a guy that I will expect to show improvement on this front - again, no issues if he fails a few times.  That's cricket.  But if he keeps throwing away his wicket with poor shot selection, in this silly quest to maintain his self-image as a batsman who "dominates" bowlers, then its a problem that needs to be addressed.   In any event, I posted my thoughts in this thread not to single out an Iyer or a Pandey.   Just more of a general observation of a fan on the developing trends in Indian cricket.  

 

 

sandeep .... it is a very valid observation which I respect.

 

I just want to channel it towards the experienced batters and not the new ones.

 

I would also like to observe the " innings building "  4-day A-team batters to find a suitable candidate, and not the dashers  .... but alas ! , the A-team games are not being  televised.

[sandeep]

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

sandeep .... it is a very valid observation which I respect.

 

I just want to channel it towards the experienced batters and not the new ones.

 

I would also like to observe the " innings building "  4-day A-team batters to find a suitable candidate, and not the dashers  .... but alas ! , the A-team games are not being  televised.

Respect is mutual EB!  

 

And I don't think that the likes of Iyer, Samson, Nair can claim inexperience for much longer.   Pant and Shaw, of course can.  

 

Personally I have high hopes for Iyer and Samson, and I feel like they haven't done justice to their talent and skillsets at this point.  Indian cricket is a brutally competitive arena, especially for batsmen.  With a bit of bad luck, even the best of prospects can spend an entire career waiting for opportunities that never materialize.  I don't want to see potential talents "miss the bus" and turn into the next Manoj Tiwary.   Although that's a bit harsh - But I'm sure you get what I'm saying.  

[express bowling]

28 minutes ago, fineleg said:

Sehwag and Warner both have grit. Their flamboyance notwithstanding.

 

What is " grit " according to you  ?

 

Iyer has a 200+ against a  full strength Australian XI   and Pant has a 300+ in Ranji

 

and they average 55 and 62 in FC   ..... and the type of  " grit "   Sehwag had. these 2 have too.

Edited October 19, 2017 by express bowling

[sandeep]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

What is " grit " according to you  ?

 

Iyer has a 200+ against a  full strength Australian XI   and Pant has a 300+ in Ranji

 

and they average 55 and 62 in FC   ..... and the type of  " grit "   Sehwag had. these 2 have too.

I think Shreyas Iyer for one, definitely needs to learn to put a price on his wicket in certain situations, and not just go for his shots all the time.   He's too good a player to not do that.  

[maniac]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

What is " grit " according to you  ?

 

Iyer has a 200+ against a  full strength Australian XI   and Pant has a 300+ in Ranji

 

and they average 55 and 62 in FC   ..... and the type of  " grit "   Sehwag had. these 2 have too.

Exactly my point.

 

Nair has been out due to his issues against pace.that is more technical...but when he had the opportunity to cash in he made frickin 300 against a top side in his what 2nd game? That itself takes grit and temperament.

 

These players look flashy because we see them mostly in IPL where they have to bat like that..So are we saying that none of these batsmen have ever scored on a minefield or grassy track in domestics? If that is the case I agree with OP there is a problem...or else there is no tangible measurement for grit.

 

Reading Dravid's statement in the quoted part and then comparing to what OP says is contradicting...Dravid called Hardik a player adapting to conditions and who in recent times has more exciting strokeplay than Hardik? 

 

And as you said Pandey and Jadhav throwing it away in positions where they can cash in is more of a problem and at the same time coming in at 250/3 in 35 th over and getting a 50(45) balls is also a problem....adaptability would be a better word here

 

 

 

 

[sandeep]

Banjo froggy you are the master of continually missing the point.  

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

I think Shreyas Iyer for one, definitely needs to learn to put a price on his wicket in certain situations, 

He probably needs to learn to put a price on his wicket in certain situations.  We don't get to see enough FC and List A matches to form a definitive opinion though and there he has some technical issues too.  His 200+ against an Aussie test-quality attack does show some wish to not get out in a big match. 

 

But that post was about comparing him to Sehwag .... and Viru threw away his wicket quite often.

Edited October 19, 2017 by express bowling

[gattaca]

How many here believe Rahul dravid played better than laxman ? Always felt laxman won more games than dravid. Dravid once he went to shell no matter Odi or test he sucked and got out. Don't think I will call that grit for just blocking the balls.

Edited October 19, 2017 by gattaca

[swastikpanda2]

Agreed with the OP here. You need to put a price on your wicket. The need of hour is the Virat of 2010-2012 when he used to bat at No. 4 ( Because this is the slot which is not plugged since promotion of Virat to No.3 and loss of form of Yuvi).

 

Actually the selectors are doing a great job. Doesn't matter how much we crib about that why Pants, Iyers,Rahul are not getting chances in National Team. The thing is presently Pant/ Iyer don't deserve to be a part of this Indian team. They are outstanding talents but they need to sort out their consistency thing in A team/ IPL.

 

They have to be become a finished and consistent product from A squad itself, when we have R Dravid coaching the A team and also frequent tours and matches.

They can't expect they will come to National team and will learn there, and even the No. 1 ranked team is not gonna give them this opportunity.

17 hours ago, express bowling said:

He probably needs to learn to put a price on his wicket in certain situations.  We don't get to see enough FC and List A matches to form a definitive opinion though and there he has some technical issues too.  His 200+ against an Aussie test-quality attack does show some wish to not get out in a big match.

I would disagree with you,EB that Aussie attack had Mitchell Marsh, Jackson Bird, Lyon, Steve'O' Keefe. He is expected to do well against Lyon after facing Pragyan Ojha, Amit Mishra in India.

 

I am afraid both Pant and Iyer has messed this opportunity when facing Bolt, Southee, Milne, Santner and probably not gonna be a part of World Cup probables/ SL tour of India. They were so close to selection.

 

Edited October 20, 2017 by swastikpanda2

[MCcricket]

The current gen cricketers in the making are the most dynamic n have had great exposure at U19 level, IPL, n are confident, have a game to dominate n some can play astonishingly for their age.

Shaw, Sarafaraz, have great talent n it's not about hitting but stroke play, adjustments, time to play strokes, maturity, Samson, Nitesh, Pant, Hooda quite a few BATSMEN n some might turn out to be Rohit, some Virat n some Uthappa, it's how they work on their game , mature, adapt.

[Brainfade]

On 10/19/2017 at 11:30 AM, sandeep said:

And yet, its the Delhi IPL team, that on Dravid's advice, has shelled out big $$$ to all of these young guns - Iyer, Karun, Samson.   

 

Dravid has his limitations as an LOI bat, even as a test bat.  But I don't think anyone can honestly cast aspersions on his motives, or his insights on Indian cricket or the young batsmen whose development he's currently overseeing.  

Tough love, they call it.  He is calling these guys out and reminding them of their immense talent for strokeplay, and coaxing them into thinking about curbing their instincts under certain situations.  He himself couldn't play strokes like these guys play, but he has a talent that they can acquire - a single-minded focus on the job at hand.