King Kohli vs Sir Viv in ODIs

[urnotserious]

2 hours ago, Nikola said:

Yeah 2023 is his best chance and given that it's in india so it's everything perfectly set for him. I feel he will continue till 2027 and will do decent even then but surely won't be anyway near to what he was in his peak days.

Kohli's non peak is better than Viv's absolute peak. Now can that win him a world cup is a different question altogether because you know this is sort of a team game. 

[Nikola]

1 hour ago, urnotserious said:

Kohli's non peak is better than Viv's absolute peak. Now can that win him a world cup is a different question altogether because you know this is sort of a team game. 

I hope you aren't kidding me. Kohli even in this era has similar strike rate to what viv had 30 - 40 years ago. Kohli surely has great average but in this era it's not that hard to maintain for great players. Even good LOI player like sharma has matched him in last 6 - 7 years. Actually he has more tons than kohli in similar matches. Warner has better conversion rate at better strike rate and look at ab he is on next level as well when he wasn't even at peak. Strike rate of almost 25 more imo.

 

 

Edited January 25, 2020 by Nikola

[urnotserious]

6 minutes ago, Nikola said:

I hope you aren't kidding me. Kohli even in this era has similar strike rate to what viv had 30 - 40 years ago. Kohli surely has great average but in this era it's not that hard to maintain for great players. Even good LOI player like sharma has matched him in last 6 - 7 years. Actually he has more tons than kohli in similar matches. Warner has better conversion rate at better strike rate and look at ab he is on next level as well when he wasn't even at peak. Strike rate of almost 25 more imo.

 

 

Wait, is there a Vivian Richards that I see on this list? No? I thought so. 

 

Kohli is averaging over 70. SEVENTY in one dayers. You realize that this has never been done by anyone, don't you? No one.

 

Others you cite have scored fewer runs at a much worse average than him, these aren't contemporaries while Viv had many. 

 

Warner has scored nearly 40% less runs than Kohli while ABDV isn't even at half his runs. Kohli's 2017 and 2018 alone eclipses ABDV's entire record here. 

 

And all this does is tells me that Rohit is better than Viv too, not just Kohli. So the real thread would be to see Shikhar Dhawan vs Viv, who's better?

 

Quick question though, has Viv ever had a stretch of 5000 runs or 4000 or even 3000 where he scored at an average of 70 runs, 96 strike rate and 22 centuries? Ever? 

[Nikola]

20 minutes ago, urnotserious said:

Kohli is averaging over 70. SEVENTY in one dayers. You realize that this has never been done by anyone, don't you? No one.

 

Others you cite have scored fewer runs at a much worse average than him, these aren't contemporaries while Viv had many. 

 

Quick question though, has Viv ever had a stretch of 5000 runs or 4000 or even 3000 where he scored at an average of 70 runs, 96 strike rate and 22 centuries? Ever? 

Lol you can maintain average by being not out which was done mostly by bevan, dhoni and now kohli. ODI average means nothing imo if kohli is that great player overall then he should average 60 or 70 in test cricket. In tests every great players have averaged around 50 - 55 for reason (except bradman ofc).

 

Quote

Warner has scored nearly 40% less runs than Kohli while ABDV isn't even at half his runs. Kohli's 2017 and 2018 alone eclipses ABDV's entire record here. 

They have played less matches as well. Abdv has strike rate of t20 in odis lol which shows how easy it is to maintain 60+ avg at 120+ strike rate.

 

Quote

Wait, is there a Vivian Richards that I see on this list? No? I thought so. 

Stats clearly shows it's filtered data from 2015 till now. Yep viv can't be on that list cause he isn't that good.

 

Quote

And all this does is tells me that Rohit is better than Viv too, not just Kohli. So the real thread would be to see Shikhar Dhawan vs Viv, who's better?

 

 

Btw if averages mean everything to you then Ryan ten Doeschate has to be greatest ODI player to play cricket. Average of 67 with bat and 24 with ball. Has great worldcup record as well.

Edited January 25, 2020 by Nikola

[urnotserious]

18 minutes ago, Nikola said:

Lol you can maintain average by being not out which was done mostly by bevan, dhoni and now kohli. ODI average means nothing imo if kohli is that great player overall then he should average 60 or 70 in test cricket. In tests every great players have averaged around 50 - 55 for reason (except bradman ofc).

LOL this would be true if that's all he was doing and India wasn't winning. But its completely opposite of that isnt it? He actually sees a chase through and guides India home. What you should hail as an amazing achievement, you seem to downplay. Do you also enjoy self mutilation? 

 

He averages higher than Viv Richards at 49.96 even if you remove ALL not outs. Do you know what Viv would average if you removed his not outs? 40.24, again much worse than Kohli because he just isn't as good.

 

21 minutes ago, Nikola said:

They have played less matches as well. Abdv has strike rate of t20 in odis lol which shows how easy it is to maintain 60+ avg at 120+ strike rate.

 

No its possible to do so for a short period of time. Just like Shahid Afridi hitting a 37 ball century in his second match. At that point, he was averaging higher and a strike rate triple that of ABDV, is he a better batsman? Sample sizes and longevity matter.

 

23 minutes ago, Nikola said:

Stats clearly shows it's filtered data from 2015 till now. Yep viv can't be on that list cause he isn't that good.

Thats why I asked you to give me a span of any timeframe where Viv scored 5000, 4000 or even 3000 runs at an average of 70 and strike rate of 96 with 22 centuries. I'll ask you again, has he? 

 

Rhetorical question.

 

24 minutes ago, Nikola said:

Btw if averages mean everything to you then Ryan ten Doeschate has to be greatest ODI player to play cricket. Average of 67 with bat and 24 with ball. Has great worldcup record as well.

We don't consider him to be great for the same reason we don't consider Marnus Labuchagne to be better than Viv Richards as a test batsman even though he averages much higher than him. The sample size is too small.  

[Vijy]

good to see this thread active as usual. I predict a big upswing in 2023 when Chokeroli Ratman flops in the WC again.

[Anoop K]

Kohli is better than Viv. Infact sachin,ponting,Ab devillers, Rohit all are better than Viv.  Viv was champion in amateur era,  "Andho mein kana Raja ". Much less competition in 70's in Odis. Srilanka was nowhere. South Africa banned (most probably Barry & Graeme Pollock could have matched Viv in Odis). Sachin  probably saw the most competitive era of Odis . Viv faced only two good wicket taking odi bowlers Lillee & hadlee. He made most of his runs against ordinary odi bowlers. I would say Nathan bracken was better than any odi bowler viv faced. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

Deleted

Edited January 26, 2020 by Ankit_sharma03

[R!TTER]

No one mentioned their fielding, if you don't exclude catches Viv is in a league of his own. Kohli the serial dropper shouldn't even be talked of in the same breath, not to mention Viv was more than handy with the ball unlike Harris' clone!

[Vijy]

8 hours ago, R!TTER said:

No one mentioned their fielding, if you don't exclude catches Viv is in a league of his own. Kohli the serial dropper shouldn't even be talked of in the same breath, not to mention Viv was more than handy with the ball unlike Harris' clone!

viv was a proper batting AR in ODIs.

[afan]

there is always an inherent danger in comparing players from different eras isnt it. I would say that Richards was the best Odi player in his Era, while Kohli is the current one, there is no comparison. For the sheer impact and the aggression that he brought in the game, Sir Richards towers over everyone.

Kohli is more contemporary in his approach, and is more well rounded than anyone playing the game now.

 

"Then he appeared, sauntering, swaggering, arms windmilling slowly. He would take guard, and then, head tilted back slightly and cudding his gum, he would walk a few paces down the pitch to tap it while looking the bowler in the eye. It was calculated menace and magnificent theatre from arguably the most devastating batsman of all time." Cricinfo

 

I have watched Richards bat for a good 7 to 8 years(TV and live tele years), and I could remember the psychological impact that he had on lesser teams including India.

Edited January 26, 2020 by afan
incomplete

[Nikola]

Bump. Kohli had great chance to win few matches on his own in SENA countries and play great knock in semi finals. I won't say he can't do in future. He has 2 worldcups in india but for now viv is way ahead in terms of winning matches all alone.

 

Edit: Forgot it was just odis comparison thread not all formats. 

Edited March 1, 2020 by Nikola

[danyalparacha@outlook.com]

Saying that the bowlers weren't great in that era people haven't watched Dennis lillee Khan Botham Kapil dev or even the great Hadlee! The size of the Bats was way too small! If Viv had this bat in hand he would send the ball from Melbourne to Karachi! moreover Viv scored runs in knock out matches! How many hundreds does Kohli or Sachin for that matter have in worldcup semi finals and finals!