Speed,Swing &Performance of Fast Bowlers & Swing Bowlers in 2018 IPL

[rkt.india]

7 hours ago, eternalhope said:

What could be the cause of the delayed bowling arm? I guess you are refering to Khejroliya here. 

 

Does Prasidh's inability to bend his back got to do with his last Stride when he strikes the crease? His action looks pretty similar to Jason Gillespie, but Jason would get disconcerting bounce from even good lengths.

His action isn't similar to Gillespie. Gillespie had a long delivery stride lower trajectory. Prasidh does get bounce from good length but his short ball is ineffective as he bowled from very up right position and falls a bit while bowling short.

[Rightarmfast]

On 5/22/2018 at 9:20 PM, rkt.india said:

No he cant because he is not used to it. You dont bowl whole day in dreams. you have to do it on the field and you can do that on the field only if you have done it before.  You cannot just come up and bowl that way whole day.  Recently Nathu Singh who is a fast bowler could not clear Yo Yo test and was not picked by Rajasthan and was asked to work on his fitness.  Stamina and practice are mutual. You cannot get stamina of bowling without practicing bowling. We are not talking about running here. Bowling stamina is completely different from running. You cannot bowl 40 overs in 5 days at pace if you have not done that before.  U19 cricketers play 3-day games at max.  

 

Stamina and maintaining intensity is one of the most important aspect for a fast bowler and it does not come easy irrespective of what age the bowler is. Your age is 20 does not mean you can bowl at an average 140Kph for 20 overs in a day.  You are undermining how hard guys like Umesh Yadav have worked on their fitness to achieve those fitness levels where he could bowl at an average pace over 140KPH 20 overs a day.  It takes a lot of bowling and effort to be able to do that. Rabada is young and he too at times struggle to maintain inmtensity at the end of a long day. 

 

I remember likes of Nehra and Zak when they were young would start bowling in high 130s to early 140s but would trundle in 120s by 2nd day.  i have endured that pain of watching their pathetic effort and intensity.  The reason for me the likes of Umesh and Aaron are like God of fast bowling in India who could bowl same pace even at the end of the day even after bowling 30 overs.

Thats as hilarious as it gets. Keeping on posting and posting to bulldoze your point doesnt make things right. 

 

If U19 guys play 3 day matches max, thats what I said. Its muscle memory. You get used to the rigors with time. Umesh yadav doesnt bowl consistently because he is 30 yrs of age. He bowls consistent because he is used to that. The only difference between a nagarkotti and a Umesh Yadav is that Yadav is used to playing these long days. 

And yes, obviously Nagarkotti will have more physical stamina than Umesh yadav. Anytime! 

 

The reason why Zak and Nehra would start bowling slower later is because they were never express bowlers to begin with. They were fast medium bowlers, capable of bowling express at time. So your expectation of them bowling fast every single time was more to do with your lack of understanding of these players and the kind of pace most fast bowlers bowl normally in a test match. It had nothing to do with age or practise. 

 

[Rightarmfast]

7 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

No, he did not.

 

For a 6'4" pacer bowling 135 k to 143 k as his default pace on the bouncy Australian pitches,  Gillespie was far more skiddy than bouncy.

 

McGrath was the bouncy bowler.

I wouldn't call Gillespie not bouncy at all. He had more than decent bounce, however Mcgrath was the king of bounce and perhaps that, overshadowed Gillespie. 

 

Also, Gillespie for a long part of his career was a 140-150+ bowler. Only towards the last 2-3 yrs of his career, he slowed down to below 145 all deliveries.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Rightarmfast

[rkt.india]

41 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Thats as hilarious as it gets. Keeping on posting and posting to bulldoze your point doesnt make things right. 

 

If U19 guys play 3 day matches max, thats what I said. Its muscle memory. You get used to the rigors with time. Umesh yadav doesnt bowl consistently because he is 30 yrs of age. He bowls consistent because he is used to that. The only difference between a nagarkotti and a Umesh Yadav is that Yadav is used to playing these long days. 

And yes, obviously Nagarkotti will have more physical stamina than Umesh yadav. Anytime! 

 

The reason why Zak and Nehra would start bowling slower later is because they were never express bowlers to begin with. They were fast medium bowlers, capable of bowling express at time. So your expectation of them bowling fast every single time was more to do with your lack of understanding of these players and the kind of pace most fast bowlers bowl normally in a test match. It had nothing to do with age or practise. 

 

You cant bowl quick consistently without having stamina. What does "used to" mean? How this thing works. He is used to because he has bowled a lot and has worked hard on his stamina. By playing those long days, Yadav has developed his stamina but he also has worked off thew field. And no, Zak and Nehra were genuine fast too. Nehra was bowling 140 plus even last year at the age of 37. Stamina does not come just naturally. Only exceptions have that stamina in-built.  Do you have any idea how much hard work goes into building stamina and maintaining it.  Please check out the workout regimen of Mitchell Johnson who had the best stamina than any other fast bowler I have seen in last 20 years. 

 

You wont have high stamina just because you are young.  and that muscle memory is part of your stamina too.  When you are used to bowl quick for longer period of time, your muscles react according to that and get used to that load and support you when you are bowling fast resulting in lesser injuries.  While young tearaways get more injuries because their muscles are not strong enough, not used the load and that puts pressure on bones and bones get fractures due to that pressure. Muscles get tears.

 

You are making it sound like people are born with stamina.  No, no one is. You have to build it.  People do stamina building exercises and workouts to build their stamina. People are born with fast and slow twitch fibers that determine the speed. Speed and stamina as a combination is one of the most difficult thing to have.  

Edited May 24, 2018 by rkt.india

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

I wouldn't call Gillespie not bouncy at all. He had more than decent bounce, however Mcgrath was the king of bounce and perhaps that, overshadowed Gillespie. 

 

The person whom I quoted and answered,  was claiming that Gillespie  " got disconcerting bounce from good length ".   I would say McGrath fitted this description more than Gillespie.

 

That post was not about whether he got more than decent bounce or whether he was bouncy at all.  Obviously, a really tall and  pacy bowler bowling half the time in Australia would get some bounce.  But I was often amazed at how much skid he sometimes got.

 

 

2 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Also, Gillespie for a long part of his career was a 140-150+ bowler. Only towards the last 2-3 yrs of his career, he slowed down to below 145 all deliveries.

 

He did bowl 140 k to 150 k in lots of spells from 1999 to 2002 or thereabouts ...  crossed 150 k on some occasions too.   But, in those days, apart from Akhtar and Lee, most pacers did not sustain their speeds throughout the day.  

[express bowling]

5 hours ago, Suhaan said:

But @express bowling brother i heard ,once Akash chopra said of all the Aussie bowlers he faced Gillespie was the one who bowled the most difficult line,he said he could bounce the ball from good length area,I know Akash Chopras credentials as batsmen ,but that is what he said about Gillespie

Suhaan bro, I remember watching Subroto Banerjee bowling in Australia . There were no speedguns but the guy was very medium pace and not more than 6'0".  Moreover, he was a floaty swing bowler.  But was often making the ball climb steeply and fly through to the keeper.

 

The pitch plays a big part in a batsman's experience.  Especially those who have limited international experience like Aakash Chopra. Plus, there can be some days when a pacer hits the deck harder than usual.

 

A 6'4" quick bowler obviously got some bounce, but his release point was not as high as it could have been for his height.

 

His line was very good.

Edited May 24, 2018 by express bowling

[Rightarmfast]

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

The person whom I quoted and answered,  was claiming that Gillespie  " got disconcerting bounce from good length ".   I would say McGrath fitted this description more than Gillespie.

 

That post was not about whether he got more than decent bounce or whether he was bouncy at all.  Obviously, a really tall and  pacy bowler bowling half the time in Australia would get some bounce.  But I was often amazed at how much skid he sometimes got.

 

 

 

He did bowl 140 k to 150 k in lots of spells from 1999 to 2002 or thereabouts ...  crossed 150 k on some occasions too.   But, in those days, apart from Akhtar and Lee, most pacers did not sustain their speeds throughout the day.  

Actually, I would say because of Lee and Akhtar, bowlers like Gillespie were overshadowed. He was pretty quick and hostile. I remember a particular match of his, in West Indies. I think it was the 97-98 series. He bowled such a hostile and quick spell the entire 2nd innings. Although there were no speed guns, but you could tell the guy bowled fast. 

 

Gillespie was very unlucky to have played in that era. Had his career not coincided with Mcgrath and Lee and Akhtar, he would have been considered a top world class bowler. 

[express bowling]

3 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Actually, I would say because of Lee and Akhtar, bowlers like Gillespie were overshadowed. He was pretty quick and hostile. I remember a particular match of his, in West Indies. I think it was the 97-98 series. He bowled such a hostile and quick spell the entire 2nd innings. Although there were no speed guns, but you could tell the guy bowled fast. 

 

Gillespie was very unlucky to have played in that era. Had his career not coincided with Mcgrath and Lee and Akhtar, he would have been considered a top world class bowler. 

 

I hold Gillespie in very high regard as a test pacer.

 

However, in that era, most pacers did not sustain pace like they do these days. 

 

 

[eternalhope]

12 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Prasidh does get bounce from good length but his short ball is ineffective as he bowled from very up right position and falls a bit while bowling short.

His action IMO helps in getting good bounce from Good lengths, which is evident to anyone who has played the game or any other game where the ground forces are required to translate the force of the body to speed. But I know even really good coaches overdoing one certain aspect neglecting the overall sequence screwing up lot of budding careers. I used to have a similar kind of action. I think it is more of the strength issue and I am sure when they start young and continue with this for a long time, the muscle memory sets in and some muscles develop more than others leading to muscle imbalance - and it takes a lot of deliberate corrective and concerted practice to overcome this and also a very good fitness expert to identify and correct the muscle imbalance  - to also have an effective short ball.

 

I would be more interested in your take or anyone elses opinion on how this effective short ball can be added to his arsenal without losing what he possesses. Let us keep it as more of an academic debate rather than try to pull each other down and derail the topic. If possible let us stick with Prasidh for some time.

[S_pace]

Dream day Khaleel , Mavi and Prasidh all are playing.

[Suhaan]

4 minutes ago, S_pace said:

Dream day Khaleel , Mavi and Prasidh all are playing.

Are you serious?

[S_pace]

19 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Are you serious?

Yes! Even I thought that the season is over for Mavi and Khaleel just spent whole season warming the benches but got suprised by the playing 11.

Just hoping that both of them make most of this unexpected opportunity.

Edited May 25, 2018 by S_pace

[S_pace]

Mavi bowled slow today then what we expect of him. Maybe because he wanted control and swing or something's off with speed gun. Lets us see.

[express bowling]

Mavi  1st over ... just 4 runs

 

Wide

143 k ... good outswinger

133 k ... hits batter on the stomach

135 k ... good outswinger to left hander

138 k .   good outswinger to left  hander

142 k ... good outswinger to left hander

143 k ... extra bounce hits batter

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by express bowling

[Mosher]

Khaleel should have been given a couple of games earlier when Bhuvi was injured. Should have been eased into IPL. Now there will be a lot of nerves for the youngster in this high pressure game.

[vishalvirsingh]

Mavi...few balls @143K....Looks truly Impressive. SMall guy but fast and quick.

Prasidh seems to be slower but has too much control over where he wants to bowl.he could be an ODI/T20 bowler, seems more of a line n length expert bowler rather than the hardcore effort fast bowler.fastest has been around 141K.

[express bowling]

Prasidh  1st over

 

132 k ... outswinger with extra bounce

138 k ... outswinger

137 k ... outswinger

141 k ... extra bounce ... wide

137 k ... hits pad with indipper to L H

140 k ... outswinger

140 k ... 6

Edited May 25, 2018 by express bowling

[vishalvirsingh]

3 minutes ago, Mosher said:

Khaleel should have been given a couple of games earlier when Bhuvi was injured. Should have been eased into IPL. Now there will be a lot of nerves for the youngster in this high pressure game.

But they believe in him for sure , this shows he is Special.

[express bowling]

Mavi  2nd over ... just 4 runs

 

141 k ...  hits deck hard

144 k

139 k ... inswinger ... batsman misses

143 k ... catch dropped

134 k ... rising short ball tucks up better

141 k ... hits bat hard

Edited May 25, 2018 by express bowling

[vishalvirsingh]

Mavi looks Aggressive....Khatarnak(dangerous)...