Why do some South Indians can speak Hindi fluently while many can't?

[bowl_out]

4 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

Yes, two painful things one has to learn over time for Hindi,

Interestingly, this gender specific words is there even in French and Spanish. I use a mental translator for numbers. Translate it to English/Kannada and even after so many years it is still hard to decipher - gyaarah lakh ad sat hazaar che sau pichathar to real numbers. Head is already spinning.

 

Hindi is one of the unique languages (there are few others) that have unique numbers from 1  through 99.  In most languages it is from 1 to 19 including English and rest are derivations of 10s, 100s etc. In Kannada ipatthu, moovatthu all mean  2 10s and 3 20s from Hatthu (10). It is both frustrating and fascinating.

 

Exactly. And when you know 10, 20, 30 etc and 1 to 10, then you can say 1 to 100 in most languages.

I don't know all the Kannada numbers, but I'm sure 32 is Moovatthu eradu (just by knowing 30 and 2).  But in Hindi, I would have to look it up or say it backwards.

[singhvivek141]

2 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

Earlier this year, I had been to Kashi and the Hindi there is shuddh bhasha. Very similar to the classical languages. Yeh bhasha bhrasht ho gaya hain. 

Man ki baat keh di.
Bollywood has literally tore the image of Hindi in front of everyone...I was watching one movie where Kader Khan sees a kid in temple and asks the pujari, who is this kid ? Pujari says he is "yateem" (orhan in English, anaath in Hindi/Sanskrit)
I was like WTF...who says Yateem in Hindi ? and here a temple pujari is using a persian word. 

[Muloghonto]

6 minutes ago, bowl_out said:

Yes, many people who advocate Sanskrit think it is similar to Hindi, but it isn't.

If anything South Indian languages have more in common with Sanskrit than Hindi, because Tamil, Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam and Sanskrit are all classical languages.

 

Hindi is a mish mash of many new languages. It has Persian words with Sanskrit's script.

 

Those are what we called 'chalti bhaasa' aka 'common tongue'. Its the same as English speakers speaking in rap-lingo. However, if we spoke proper hindi/bengali, it will sound 95% similar to Sanskrit. 

For eg, Vande mataram is not composed in Sanskrit, it is composed in 'pure bangla'. But good luck telling it apart from Sanskrit. 

 

[singhvivek141]

8 minutes ago, bowl_out said:

Yes, many people who advocate Sanskrit think it is similar to Hindi, but it isn't.

If anything South Indian languages have more in common with Sanskrit than Hindi, because Tamil, Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam and Sanskrit are all classical languages.

 

Hindi is a mish mash of many new languages. It has Persian words with Sanskrit's script.

Hindi became polluted due to Bollywood. 
Real Hindi is very much close to Sanskrit. 

[Muloghonto]

5 minutes ago, bowl_out said:

 

Exactly. And when you know 10, 20, 30 etc and 1 to 10, then you can say 1 to 100 in most languages.

I don't know all the Kannada numbers, but I'm sure 32 is Moovatthu eradu (just by knowing 30 and 2).  But in Hindi, I would have to look it up or say it backwards.

its the exact same way in Bengali as well. 

64 is 'chou-shotti' , aka 'four-sixty' 

 

[coffee_rules]

13 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

 

Those are what we called 'chalti bhaasa' aka 'common tongue'. Its the same as English speakers speaking in rap-lingo. However, if we spoke proper hindi/bengali, it will sound 95% similar to Sanskrit. 

For eg, Vande mataram is not composed in Sanskrit, it is composed in 'pure bangla'. But good luck telling it apart from Sanskrit. 

 

 

I thought it was in Sanskrit and in Bengali it would be Bonde Motorom! And the reason Jana Gana Mana was chosen over Vande Mataram as the national Anthem is because it is in Sanskrit and secularists opposed it.

Edited October 3, 2024 by coffee_rules

[singhvivek141]

8 minutes ago, bowl_out said:

 

Exactly. And when you know 10, 20, 30 etc and 1 to 10, then you can say 1 to 100 in most languages.

I don't know all the Kannada numbers, but I'm sure 32 is Moovatthu eradu (just by knowing 30 and 2).  But in Hindi, I would have to look it up or say it backwards.

Even that's not easy
50 is pachas
52 is baavan
54 is chauvan
57 is sattavan
59 is unsath (one minus to sath/60)

While
40 is chaalis
42 is bayalis
44 is chauvalis
47 is saitalis

"alis" is common in 40's for each number except 49 (unchas, one minus to pachas/50). But there is no consistency.

[coffee_rules]

8 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Man ki baat keh di.
Bollywood has literally tore the image of Hindi in front of everyone...I was watching one movie where Kader Khan sees a kid in temple and asks the pujari, who is this kid ? Pujari says he is "yateem" (orhan in English, anaath in Hindi/Sanskrit)
I was like WTF...who says Yateem in Hindi ? and here a temple pujari is using a persian word. 

 

Don't get me started with Bollywood and killing shuddh Hindi. In fact, if a character speaks in shuddh bhasha, it will be made fun of. Like the song "Priye Praneshwari Hridayeshwari" is made fun of both shuddh Hindi and South Indians. They have characters who are visibly Hindu singing "Yallah, Allaha Miya, Allah Allah Main hoon pyaar tera ...etc" . Why TF? 

[Nikhil_cric]

17 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Hindi became polluted due to Bollywood. 
Real Hindi is very much close to Sanskrit. 

But isn't that because Bollywood uses more of the old Hindustani rather than modern standard Hindi ?

 

 

Edited October 3, 2024 by Nikhil_cric

[Muloghonto]

14 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

I thought it was in Sanskrit and in Bengali it would be Bonde Motorom! And the reason Jana Gana Mana was chosen over Vande Mataram as the national Anthem is because it is in Sanskrit and secularists opposed it.

It *IS* Bonde Mataram in Anandamath lol

No, the reason Vande Mataram wasnt chosen is because muslims objected to it as idol worship, given that the song anthromorphises India as mother goddess India. 

 

[bowl_out]

3 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

On bold point I disagree with you though. Every state has it's own official languages alongside Hindi and English (which are official languages at Center)...for ex. Telangana has Hindi, English, Urdu and Telugu. You produce your docs in any of the 4 languages and it's acceptable. So even if Hindi is written in the Bengaluru metro or used in announcements, I don't think anyone should have a problem with it. Make Kannada as primary, and let Hindi and English be under it as tertiary languages.

 

The disagreement from the South Indian states is that they see Hindi just as any other regional language. It has always been local language + English (the link language).

I have lived in Chennai and Bangalore through my childhood and never seen Hindi boards used anywhere except the yellow boards in Indian Railways. Now, Hindi creeping up in many places around the same time that there is massive influx of population from the North causes resentment among locals. 

 

You shouldn't see this as an isolated incident. The crux of the resentment is "Why should Hindi speakers be spoonfed everywhere despite already getting so many benefits that non Hindi speakers don't get".. Some of them include:

1. All competitive exams managed by the Central govt (CBSE, UPSC, Railways, Bank exams etc) are offered in Hindi or English... While Hindi speakers get the natural advantage of taking their exam in their mother tongue, others don't
2. Simple day-to-day things like Bank Challans, Customer service calls etc, are often in Hindi and English, and don't service even locals in their local language
3. Hindi belt is performing poorly on all socio-economic indicators, still most of the budget for everything gets allocated to them
4. Hindi belt has a TFI of ~3, whereas Southern states have <2, but resource allocation is done on population, so South gets dinged for doing well on the metric
5. When Non-Hindi speakers from other states don't have the convenience of being served in their language at the Bangalore metro, signs on the highway, banks etc, why should only Hindi speakers get the benefit?
6. The added annoyance of not having an even footing - A kannadiga needs to learn Hindi when he travels North, but he also needs to alter what he displays on his sign boards to make sure that a Hindi-speaking person feels welcome when they visit.

 

Lastly, despite all of this (and many other reasons not listed here), our PM and HM parroting time and again that "Hindi should be the national language" or "Everyone should learn Hindi" or promoting Hindi Diwas using taxes from non-Hindi speaking states frustrate them even more leading to exaggerated protests from pro-local-language groups. Obviously some protests are over-reactions.

If you look at the protests in isolation, it would look stupid, but you need to see them in the context.

 

 

[Nikhil_cric]

@bowl_out is spot on about the numbers and the gender.   It just doesn't come intuitively to us South Indians. 

 

The struggle to get the "ka"s and "ki"s is real for us.

[Muloghonto]

1 minute ago, bowl_out said:

 

The disagreement from the South Indian states is that they see Hindi just as any other regional language. It has always been local language + English (the link language).

I have lived in Chennai and Bangalore through my childhood and never seen Hindi boards used anywhere except the yellow boards in Indian Railways. Now, Hindi creeping up in many places around the same time that there is massive influx of population from the North causes resentment among locals. 

 

You shouldn't see this as an isolated incident. The crux of the resentment is "Why should Hindi speakers be spoonfed everywhere despite already getting so many benefits that non Hindi speakers don't get".. Some of them include:

1. All competitive exams managed by the Central govt (CBSE, UPSC, Railways, Bank exams etc) are offered in Hindi or English... While Hindi speakers get the natural advantage of taking their exam in their mother tongue, others don't
2. Simple day-to-day things like Bank Challans, Customer service calls etc, are often in Hindi and English, and don't service even locals in their local language
3. Hindi belt is performing poorly on all socio-economic indicators, still most of the budget for everything gets allocated to them
4. Hindi belt has a TFI of ~3, whereas Southern states have <2, but resource allocation is done on population, so South gets dinged for doing well on the metric
5. When Non-Hindi speakers from other states don't have the convenience of being served in their language at the Bangalore metro, signs on the highway, banks etc, why should only Hindi speakers get the benefit?
6. The added annoyance of not having an even footing - A kannadiga needs to learn Hindi when he travels North, but he also needs to alter what he displays on his sign boards to make sure that a Hindi-speaking person feels welcome when they visit.

 

Lastly, despite all of this (and many other reasons not listed here), our PM and HM parroting time and again that "Hindi should be the national language" or "Everyone should learn Hindi" or promoting Hindi Diwas using taxes from non-Hindi speaking states frustrate them even more leading to exaggerated protests from pro-local-language groups. Obviously some protests are over-reactions.

If you look at the protests in isolation, it would look stupid, but you need to see them in the context.

 

 

 

All those protests ARE stupid, promoted due to anti-science and western 'race' concept embedded Dravidian fascism ideology. 

You sure as hell dont see such pushback from Odiyas, Assamese or even much from us bongs these days once we crushed the commie losers in our state. 

India needs a link language - which should be language native TO India and not foreign colonial language ( notice our resident inbred commie has no problems peddling imperialism if its from his white masters, just like he peddles his white master's unscientific nonsense race concepts). 

There are only two valid candidates for this - Hindi or Sanskrit. 

Growth of Hindi is organic, which makes it easier to promote as link language but we can do it for Sanskrit too, just like Israel did with Hebrew.

 

[Muloghonto]

2 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

@bowl_out is spot on about the numbers and the gender.   It just doesn't come intuitively to us South Indians. 

 

The struggle to get the "ka"s and "ki"s is real for us.

Never a problem for us bongs, so why would it be a problem for you guys ? Bengali is strictly neuter gender in almost all conversations, there is no 'his or her' aka 'uska or uski' in bengali. 

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

Tamizh should be made the national language and every Indian baby should learn how to say Vaazha pazham correctly before they say Mummy or Dada.

 

PS: These days, most in Tamizhnaad itself might struggzhe with it.

[coffee_rules]

14 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

 

All those protests ARE stupid, promoted due to anti-science and western 'race' concept embedded Dravidian fascism ideology. 

You sure as hell dont see such pushback from Odiyas, Assamese or even much from us bongs these days once we crushed the commie losers in our state. 

India needs a link language - which should be language native TO India and not foreign colonial language ( notice our resident inbred commie has no problems peddling imperialism if its from his white masters, just like he peddles his white master's unscientific nonsense race concepts). 

There are only two valid candidates for this - Hindi or Sanskrit. 

Growth of Hindi is organic, which makes it easier to promote as link language but we can do it for Sanskrit too, just like Israel did with Hebrew.

 

Not the case with Karnataka, we had kept that Dravidian commie ideology out  for decades. This resentment in Bangalore is more organic and the Dravidian ideologues are using it for their advantage. I see a lot of Kannada first handles and street protests destructing public property and some times even private businesses. The locals are silent because of the resentment and attitude of migrants. The recent stabbing of a bus conductor didn’t make news, but it is all over on Twitter and WA as an evidence of influx of migrant workers. My fear is that it will get worse. 
 

Ironically all these protests are against Hindi and Sanskrit. They are mute on Urdu and want to promote Urdu (signboards et all) 

[BacktoCricaddict]

50 minutes ago, bowl_out said:

 

Exactly. And when you know 10, 20, 30 etc and 1 to 10, then you can say 1 to 100 in most languages.

I don't know all the Kannada numbers, but I'm sure 32 is Moovatthu eradu (just by knowing 30 and 2).  But in Hindi, I would have to look it up or say it backwards.

If you memorized it from young age, it would be 2nd nature. I learnt all my Hindi numbers, and probably most of my Hindi, from cricket commentary.

[coffee_rules]

1 minute ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Tamizh should be made the national language and every Indian baby should learn how to say Vaazha pazham correctly before they say Mummy or Dada.

 

PS: These days, most in Tamizhnaad itself might struggzhe with it.

I am told that if the banana is over ripe, it should be called vaaya payyam with a disgusting facial expression 

[Muloghonto]

Just now, coffee_rules said:

Not the case with Karnataka, we had kept that Dravidian commie ideology out  for decades. This resentment in Bangalore is more organic and the Dravidian ideologues are using it for their advantage. I see a lot of Kannada first handles and street protests destructing public property and some times even private businesses. The locals are silent because of the resentment and attitude of migrants. The recent stabbing of a bus conductor didn’t make news, but it is all over on Twitter and WA as an evidence of influx of migrant workers. My fear is that it will get worse. 
 

Ironically all these protests are against Hindi and Sanskrit. They are mute on Urdu and want to promote Urdu (signboards et all) 

I have no fear of migrants because Indian citizens are free to and should have the right to go live in any corner of India they choose. 

If i,a bong, want to retire in Manali, that is my perogative and my right. 

Ofcourse they wanna promote Urdu, because their justifications for hinduphobia and hindiphobia are nonsense and they are driven by mostly colonial legacy scholars like Romila Thapar and other 'deadbeat Euro-dad' ideology ( marxism). 

 

[coffee_rules]

23 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Never a problem for us bongs, so why would it be a problem for you guys ? Bengali is strictly neuter gender in almost all conversations, there is no 'his or her' aka 'uska or uski' in bengali. 

 

You bongs even mix up verbs for objects like ‘Jol khabo?”