Shivam Dubey

[MCcricket]

Just now, express bowling said:

 

Gill is actually way more attacking than Kohli. His FC SR of 76 is partial reflection of that.

 

His only shortcoming, which may also be his strength, is that he can't slog on demand.

That can come with experience, even Kallis had one gear for a long period n then adjusted, Gill, Shaw, Sarfaraz, Pant for me are the future

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Gill is actually way more attacking than Kohli. His FC SR of 76 is partial reflection of that.

A List-A strike rate of less than 90 proves otherwise.

[express bowling]

2 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

A List-A strike rate of less than 90 proves otherwise.

 

Domestic List-A games are, more often than not, much lower scoring affairs than ODIs due to the nature of pitches used. You will see most players having lower strike rates in List-A.

 

Take the case of a really big hitter like Hardik Pandya.

 

ODI. SR of  115.6

List-A  SR of only 85  (  excluding ODIs ).

 

Gill's List-A SR of 88 is very good actually.

 

[SUMO]

Gill is much better striker than kohli at this age bcz of his height and lean muscle (kohli was chubby)
Gill can become big hitter few years later easily when he gets little bulky.

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

9 hours ago, express bowling said:

Domestic List-A games are, more often than not, much lower scoring affairs than ODIs due to the nature of pitches used. You will see most players having lower strike rates in List-A.

Kedar Jadhav, Ajinkya Rahane, Dinesh Karthik, Ravindra Jadeja all have superior strike rates in List-A than they do in ODIs. As do guys like KL Rahul, Rishabh Pant and Vijay Shankar, but you'd probably say they haven't played that many ODIs.

Edited September 11, 2019 by TNAmarkFromIndia

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

Kedar Jadhav, Ajinkya Rahane, Dinesh Karthik, Ravindra Jadeja all have superior strike rates in List-A than they do in ODIs. As do guys like KL Rahul, Rishabh Pant and Vijay Shankar, but you'd probably say they haven't played that many ODIs.

 

Kedar Jadhav is one guy who has truly managed to score somewhat faster in domestic List-A matches compared to ODIs. 

 

Most of the other guys in that list have either not played that many ODIs as you said  or have not been able to perform that well with the bat in ODIs, like Rahane and Jadeja.

 

 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

Kedar Jadhav is one guy who has truly managed to score somewhat faster in domestic List-A matches compared to ODIs. 

 

Most of the other guys in that list have either not played that many ODIs as you said  or have not been able to perform that well with the bat in ODIs, like Rahane and Jadeja.

Actually your argument is flawed. More pitches are getting flatter in India, and in domestic cricket the batsmen get to feast on a much inferior level of bowling. Hence why you have so many players with a lower strike rate in ODIs than List-A. You can't tell me Dinesh Karthik with 94 ODIs has played too few games. His ODI strike rate is 73.24 compared to his List-A strike rate of 99.78.

[Vk1]

20 hours ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

KL's form is in question and Gill doesn't have the big hitting game to play in the middle order. Iyer would make a good No. 4 but 5, 6, 7? Needs some big hitters and Dube, Pandya and Pant/Kishan could factor in that.

I am not sure how good a hitter Kishan is against international level fast bowling.. I know that he can hit spinners easily in the cow corner..

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

Actually your argument is flawed. More pitches are getting flatter in India, and in domestic cricket the batsmen get to feast on a much inferior level of bowling. Hence why you have so many players with a lower strike rate in ODIs than List-A. You can't tell me Dinesh Karthik with 94 ODIs has played too few games. His ODI strike rate is 73.24 compared to his List-A strike rate of 99.78.

 

Here are the scores of the first 15 games of Vijay Hazare Trophy 2018-19.

 

Played in different venues.

 

I did not pick and choose any game

 

238

239

 

266

267

 

290

255

 

190

183

 

231

235

 

303

278

 

118

104

 

253

254

 

120

121

 

254

151

 

187

170

 

245

107

 

268

146

 

184

186

 

237

238

 

 

Now you form an opinion.

 

Most pitches for domestic games in India are bowler friendly now. And that is being done by design.

Edited September 11, 2019 by express bowling

[Suhaan]

2 hours ago, Vk1 said:

I am not sure how good a hitter Kishan is against international level fast bowling.. I know that he can hit spinners easily in the cow corner..

Maybe just decent,but can hit them

He was manhandling Lockie Ferguson early this year in our A tour to NZ,though it remains to be seen whether he can do it consistently or was it an exception

[Suhaan]

Odis are being played on far more flatter tracks than in domestics now which nullifies  effect of international bowlers,not only in India but also in other domestic setups scores have been modest

No one would watch  internationals being played on bowler friendly conditions,people do come to stadiums for huge sixes thats what makes t20s more relevant,a popular perception though

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

3 hours ago, express bowling said:

Now you form an opinion.

Most pitches for domestic games in India are bowler friendly now. And that is being done by design.

Now here's the strike rates of the top 10 run scorers in the same tournament.

 

90.03

110.44

118.95

124.11

83.84

87.80

95.44

83.93

91.46

111.57

 

7 out of 10 are 90+. 4 out of those 100+.

 

Shubman Gill scored 418 runs at a strike rate of 83.93. In comparison to his own Punjab team mates Anmolpreet Singh who scored 314 runs at a strike rate of 114.59, and Gurkeerat Singh who scored 268 runs at a strike rate of 107.63. If you think a strike rate of 88 is great, I can only imagine what you think of a strike rate of 105+. Even Gautam Gambhir scored 518 runs at a strike rate of 110.44 in that tournament. You think he could have scored faster than that in ODIs in 2018/19?

[express bowling]

18 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

Now here's the strike rates of the top 10 run scorers in the same tournament.

 

90.03

110.44

118.95

124.11

83.84

87.80

95.44

83.93

91.46

111.57

 

7 out of 10 are 90+. 4 out of those 100+.

 

Shubman Gill scored 418 runs at a strike rate of 83.93. In comparison to his own Punjab team mates Anmolpreet Singh who scored 314 runs at a strike rate of 114.59, and Gurkeerat Singh who scored 268 runs at a strike rate of 107.63. If you think a strike rate of 88 is great, I can only imagine what you think of a strike rate of 105+. Even Gautam Gambhir scored 518 runs at a strike rate of 110.44 in that tournament. You think he could have scored faster than that in ODIs in 2018/19?

 

 

1)  Many of the top SRs you have quoted are Plate League batsmen playing against much inferior bowling attacks.

 

2)  SR of batters in 50 over games depend on the roles given to batters too. Many high SR batters are those who bat either in the lower middle order or are used as pinch hitters. Gill's role is neither of the two.

 

3) Anmolpreet played just 3 games. Sample is too small.  Gurkeerat usually comes to bat later in the innings and his role is to slog. Not really comparable to Gill.

 

4) Main point is ... having watched Gill in many many matches ... he usually scores very quickly. Only problem he faces is in the last 5 overs of ODIs and T20s.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2019 by express bowling

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

5 hours ago, express bowling said:

1)  Many of the top SRs you have quoted are Plate League batsmen playing against much inferior bowling attacks.

2)  SR of batters in 50 over games depend on the roles given to batters too. Many high SR batters are those who bat either in the lower middle order or are used as pinch hitters. Gill's role is neither of the two.

3) Anmolpreet played just 3 games. Sample is too small.  Gurkeerat usually comes to bat later in the innings and his role is to slog. Not really comparable to Gill.

4) Main point is ... having watched Gill in many many matches ... he usually scores very quickly. Only problem he faces is in the last 5 overs of ODIs and T20s.

1. Only 5 of those top 10 batsmen play in Plate group. Of the remaining 5, four have strike rate of 90+ out of which two have strike rate of 100+. The only one of those five with a strike rate of less than 90 is Shubman Gill who had a strike rate of 83.93.

 

2. I mentioned Anmolpreet Singh and Gautam Gambhir. Both of them are top order batsmen and not middle order or pinch hitters, as is Abhinav Mukund who opens for Tamil Nadu and scored the most runs in that tournament.

 

3. For a more like for like comparison, Anmolpreet Singh scored his highest score in that tournament of 141 off 114 balls in a game against Goa. In the same match, Shubman Gill, who opened with Anmolpreet, scored 73 off 88. In an innings where everyone else from the Punjab team played with a strike of 100+, Shubman Gill scored at a strike rate of 82.95.

 

Anmolpreet's other century in that tournament came in a chase against Karnataka where he scored 138 off 106 balls. Again in that same match, Gill, who opened with him, scored 77 off 93 balls at a strike rate of 82.79 while chasing 297.

 

4. Like the numbers above show, he's more suited for the No. 3 position where he can play the role of an accumulator, play himself in while others around him take the initiative of scoring more quickly. The No. 3 position would allow him to develop his game at the international level without the pressure of having to play outside of his comfort zone. No. 4 requires different skillsets which doesn't suit Gill's natural game right now.

 

Anyway, regardless of what we think, Gill himself has made it known that he prefers opening the innings than playing in the middle order.

Edited September 11, 2019 by TNAmarkFromIndia

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

1. Only 5 of those top 10 batsmen play in Plate group. Of the remaining 5, four have strike rate of 90+ out of which two have strike rate of 100+. The only one of those five with a strike rate of less than 90 is Shubman Gill who had a strike rate of 83.93.

 

2. I mentioned Anmolpreet Singh and Gautam Gambhir. Both of them are top order batsmen and not middle order or pinch hitters, as is Abhinav Mukund who opens for Tamil Nadu and scored the most runs in that tournament.

 

3. For a more like for like comparison, Anmolpreet Singh scored his highest score in that tournament of 141 off 114 balls in a game against Goa. In the same match, Shubman Gill, who opened with Anmolpreet, scored 73 off 88. In an innings where everyone else from the Punjab team played with a strike of 100+, Shubman Gill scored at a strike rate of 82.95.

 

Anmolpreet's other century in that tournament came in a chase against Karnataka where he scored 138 off 106 balls. Again in that same match, Gill, who opened with him, scored 77 off 93 balls at a strike rate of 82.79 while chasing 297.

 

4. Like the numbers above show, he's more suited for the No. 3 position where he can play the role of an accumulator, play himself in while others around him take the initiative of scoring more quickly. The No. 3 position would allow him to develop his game at the international level without the pressure of having to play outside of his comfort zone. No. 4 requires different skillsets which doesn't suit Gill's natural game right now.

 

Anyway, regardless of what we think, Gill himself has made it known that he prefers opening the innings than playing in the middle order.

 

 

As I said above, SR of batsmen in LO games often depend on the roles assigned to them. 

 

While playing for the Punjab in List-A matches, Gill had been given the anchor's role of playing through the innings if possible. Hence the slightly lowish SR this season.

 

While playing List-A for India-A, he has not been assigned the anchor's role.  

 

And the SRs of his last three 40+ innings  for India-A in List-A in the last few months are

 

77 runs st a SR of 173

69 runs at a SR of  95

46 runs at a SR of  98. 

 

And Gill has a SR of 76 at an average of 75 from 13 FC matches. This is tremendous and shows his ability to score really fast.

 

I don't think he would have any problem at No.4 in ODIs as he can rotate the strike and play spin  too. 

 

 

P.s -- This thread is about Dubey ... so. I will stop discussing Gill now.

 

 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

42 minutes ago, express bowling said:

As I said above, SR of batsmen in LO games often depend on the roles assigned to them. 

While playing for the Punjab in List-A matches, Gill had been given the anchor's role of playing through the innings if possible. Hence the slightly lowish SR this season.

It's one thing to bat as an anchor for the team, it's another to play at a strike rate of 82 on a 350+ pitch or while chasing 297.

 

It requires game sense to know when it's time to accelerate, and that's crucial at No. 4 much more than at the top of the order. Like I said, he's not suited for No. 4.

[express bowling]

24 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

It's one thing to bat as an anchor for the team, it's another to play at a strike rate of 82 on a 350+ pitch or while chasing 297.

 

It requires game sense to know when it's time to accelerate, and that's crucial at No. 4 much more than at the top of the order. Like I said, he's not suited for No. 4.

 

No point derailing this thread about Dubey.

 

Let's discuss it in the Shubman Gill thread.

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2019 by express bowling

[Vk1]

Nonchalance from Dube.. hits two sixes to close the game 

[Mosher]

Dube 68 against a good bowling attack of SA A. 

[rtmohanlal]

Dubey deserves his chances .His first class record is far superior to that of Hardik. That being the case  & being a left hander,  it is disappointing  not to see him  in the Indian team as of now.