Should groom Siraj and Saini for Australian series

[R!TTER]

Just now, raki05 said:

But how do we know he can't swing?

Swinging old balls in Aus isn't child's play, if everyone could swing it then someone like Akhtar, Wasim or Waqar wouldn't avg 30 or 40+ in Aus. Also swing depends on conditions, in the heat of Aus it isn't easy to swing the new ball either, then there's the problem of controlling that swing. Bowling against FC batter in India vs batters in Aus tests is a totally different ball game.

[raki05]

21 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Swinging old balls in Aus isn't child's play, if everyone could swing it then someone like Akhtar, Wasim or Waqar wouldn't avg 30 or 40+ in Aus. Also swing depends on conditions, in the heat of Aus it isn't easy to swing the new ball either, then there's the problem of controlling that swing. Bowling against FC batter in India vs batters in Aus tests is a totally different ball game.

So in your opinion we should continue with the current lot. Man just because bowlers get hammered in Aus shouldn't be the reason of not debuting someone there. I think lot of player got their debut in aus if i remember correctly stokes got his debut series in Aus in high octance tournament like ashes and also returned with 6 wkt figures in one of the match.  I don't think giving debut to Saini or Siraj would return any worst figure than what Yadav or Ishant would return in Aus. I don't know why but lot of fans and cricket fraternity become so conservative in giving debut to an youngsters. It's just not about Aus, before this eng series also people were asking debut for Pant/Shaw and Siraj . Not sure what we have achieved as we lost eventually with the experienced tried and tested player. At least with youngsters they will gain experience and would show more commitment than this friend and family brigade who laugh shamelessly after dropping catches and mercilessly beaten by a tailenders due to perennially spraying from past 10 years in the name of experience.

[R!TTER]

Just now, raki05 said:

So in your opinion we should continue with the current lot. Man just because bowlers get hammered in Aus shouldn't be the reason of not debuting someone there. I think lot of player got their debut in aus if i remember correctly stokes got his debut series in Aus in high octance tournament like ashes and also returned with 6 wkt figures in one of the match.  I don't think giving debut to Saini or Siraj would return any worst figure than what Yadav or Ishant would return in Aus. I don't know why but lot of fans and cricket fraternity become so conservative in giving debut to an youngsters. It's just not about Aus, before this eng series also people were asking debut for Pant/Shaw and Siraj . Not sure what we have achieved as we lost eventually with the experienced tried and tested player. At least with youngsters they will gain experience and would show more commitment than this friend and family brigade who laugh shamelessly after dropping catches and mercilessly beaten by a tailenders due to perennially spraying from past 10 years in the name of experience.

If they show something in intl matches, then yes give them a chance otherwise why does this forum keep on harping about Jadeja the FTB bully? Have you seen his FC stats, Pandya isn't in the same universe as him. Jadeja also knows how to build an innings, he doesn't.

 

Likewise bowlers need experience to trap a batter in unfavorable conditions, that's not to say FC experience isn't useful but doing it away from home requires more than just skills or potential .

 

The lot on this forum like to devalue tests, the experience in test matches is worth its weight in saffron. Yet apparently every rookie can bowl better than people who've toiled long and hard in these harsh conditions.

Edited August 6, 2018 by R!TTER

[raki05]

2 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

If they show something in intl matches, then yes give them a chance otherwise why does this forum keep on harping about Jadeja the FTB bully? Have you seen his FC stats, Pandya isn't in the same universe as him. Jadeja also knows how to build an innings, he doesn't.

 

Likewise bowlers need experience to trap a batter in unfavorable conditions, that's not to say FC experience isn't useful but doing it away from home requires more than just skills or potential .

 

The lot on this forum like to devalue tests, the experience in test matches is worth its weight in saffron. Yet apparently every rookie can bowl better than people who've toiled long and hard in these harsh conditions.

If someone doesn't have skill no matter how much he toiled (domestic or Internationals) would never be a better player. Example: Vinay Koomar ( domestic bully) and Ishant Sharma( International failure). No body is asking Siraj or Shaw or Pant to give chance based on their domestic tournament exploit. They did perform well in A tournament in foreign condition whatever chance they got also there is no guarantee they will start performing from the first international match. But how do we gauge them if we don't give them chance in international matches and it's not like with the current old toiled/well oiled and experienced player we are beating team to submission rather we are getting massacred regularly in overseas tour. Eventually skill/potential other than performance should be criteria for selection than experience and ttf.

[express bowling]

Siraj 2nd innings 3rd day

 

4 wickets for 18 runs from 10 overs now. 

 

On the same pitch we scored 587 declared.

 

No other bowler has got wickets so far in the 2nd innings. Gurbani  has gone for almost 6 runs per over.

 

Siraj must be doing something special nowadays.  (  We saw the pace, bounce, seam movement both ways, decent accuracy and adjusting his length quickly ... that he showed in England in that streamed match ).

 

 

Edited August 6, 2018 by express bowling

[rkt.india]

 

[Pollack]

The performance is special because looking at scorecards pitch looks better for batting. Both Saini and Siraj are very good. Personally like Saini more than Siraj for longer versions.

[rkt.india]

20 minutes ago, Pollack said:

The performance is special because looking at scorecards pitch looks better for batting. Both Saini and Siraj are very good. Personally like Saini more than Siraj for longer versions.

There is certainly something in the pitch for bowlers.

[Cricket_Fan]

15 hours ago, R!TTER said:

Swinging old balls in Aus isn't child's play, if everyone could swing it then someone like Akhtar, Wasim or Waqar wouldn't avg 30 or 40+ in Aus. Also swing depends on conditions, in the heat of Aus it isn't easy to swing the new ball either, then there's the problem of controlling that swing. Bowling against FC batter in India vs batters in Aus tests is a totally different ball game.

Akhtar,Wasim and Waqar played against legends and current batsmen of Australia even with Steve Smith are not even 1/10 th of them.

Regarding heat, Saini and Siraj have bowled pretty fine in the heat and humidity of India which is way more difficult than anything in Australia.There is a reason they went to Dubai to practice the conditions here.

 

And Saini had already bowled well against Australian main batsmen including Steve Smith, Handscomb and all , last time when they toured as part of Board's president's eleven.Watch from 7:49 of the following video and see how he castled the stumps of Maxwell with an inswinger at high pace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Qv81iLVtKQ

 

If he can bowl like this in sweltering heat and humidity of Mumbai on a flat road against the likes of Smith and Warner, he can definitely do better in Australia.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Cricket_Fan

[Hydra]

Over here in Australia fast bowlers need intensity, they have to know when to switch it on and bowl flat out and when to relax and bowl with controlled aggression. Indian bowlers, I don't think are fit enough to do that, they can bowl well for a session or two but fade away after that.

 

Australia is at it's weakest now, if India can't win here in Australia now they will never win a series in Australia or SA.

[Vilander]

i think India should do something revolutionary - play 8 fast bowlers 1 keeper and Kohli rahane. that way India will be the most phhast team.