Please drop Pandya to maintain Test cricket’s sanctity.

[zen]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

So how do these stats justify Pandya as allrounder, his one hundred scored was when SL was bowling just spinners and scoreboard pressure was zero.

 

In the same stats you showed Dhawan is averaging 72 with same hundreds as Kohli in wins, do you want Dhawan to open for India ever? 

 

Shami and Yadav were averaging better than Anderson and Broad when England played in India, did you think they were better bowler than them???

It shows that the youngster is doing well and helping Ind to win 

 

Once he plays 15-20 tests, he can be compared with the more experienced players to see where he stands 

 

 

 

 

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, zen said:

It shows that the youngster is doing well and helping Ind to win 

 

Once he plays 15-20 tests, he can be compared with the more experienced players to see where he stands 

 

 

 

 

He is not doing well, same is the case with Dhawan who has scored 2 100s and averaging 72 in wins .Pandya's basic ability is not good enough to in tests , unless he somehow transforms himself in good batsman or a bowler he will not have long career.

 

[zen]

2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

He is not doing well, same is the case with Dhawan who has scored 2 100s and averaging 72 in wins .Pandya's basic ability is not good enough to in tests , unless he somehow transforms himself in good batsman or a bowler he will not have long career.

 

For someone in his first season, he is doing well. Has won Ind a test in Eng 

[zen]

In the test that Ind won in Eng:

 

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Primary team India

Opposition team England

Home or away away (home of opposition)

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jul 2017

Match result won match

Ordered by batting - bowling average (descending)

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Overall figures

Player	Mat	Runs	HS	Bat Av	100	Wkts	BBI	Bowl Av	5	Ct	St	Ave Diff
HH Pandya	1	70	52*	70.00	0	6	5/28	8.33	1	0	0	61.66
JJ Bumrah	1	0	0	0.00	0	7	5/85	17.42	1	0	0	-17.42
I Sharma	1	1	1*	-	0	4	2/32	25.50	0	0	0	-
R Ashwin	1	15	14	15.00	0	1	1/44	47.00	0	0	0	-31.99
Mohammed Shami	1	6	3	3.00	0	2	1/56	67.00	0	0	0	-63.99
S Dhawan	1	79	44	39.50	0	-	-	-	-	0	0	-
V Kohli	1	200	103	100.00	1	-	-	-	-	1	0	-
RR Pant	1	25	24	12.50	0	-	-	-	-	7	0	-
CA Pujara	1	86	72	43.00	0	-	-	-	-	0	0	-
AM Rahane	1	110	81	55.00	0	-	-	-	-	1	0	-
KL Rahul	1	59	36	29.50	0	-	-	-	-	7	0	-

 

[express bowling]

Pandya is batting in the top 6 or 7.  So, he has to show a certain consistency and responsibility with the bat irrespective of his bowling.

 

I am a Pandya supporter ... but must say that he needs to step up on this count in SENA test matches.

 

In this series, his only impressive innings with the bat was 31 in the 1st test 2nd innings.  (  when he fought well and was dismissed last ).  His 53 was when India were leading by 450 and there was no pressure.

 

I hoped that he would do something with the bat in atleast one innings of the 4th test.  But he succumbed a bit too easily for my liking on both occasions .

 

He has fighting ability while batting ... as he showed in CT 2017 final and SA 2018 first test.

 

But must show it more regularly in tests.

Edited September 5, 2018 by express bowling

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

, his one hundred scored was when SL was bowling just spinners

 

 

No ... 2nd new ball was moving for quite some time during that innings ... Pradeep and Kumara were bowling well ... and Kumara was bowling 145 k and Pradeep was lively too.

[zen]

28 minutes ago, express bowling said:

But must show it more regularly in tests.

He has to be more consistent. If we take an avg of 30-40 runs per test in difficult SENA conditions and an avg of 60-70 runs per test in relatively good batting conditions, in the long run, he should aim to be around 45-55 runs per test. And pick up 1-3 wkts per test. So at 100 test mark, IF he were to hypothetically play, he should be aim to be above 5,000 runs and 200 wkts or some combination of it - more runs less wkts, less runs more wkts

 

Which would be a step below Gilchrist level in batting, and supported with 200 wkts:

 

Competition Test ODI T20I List A Matches 96 287 13 356 Runs scored 5,570 9,619 272 11,326 Batting average 47.60 35.89 22.66 34.95 100s/50s 17/26 16/55 0/0 18/63 Top score 204* 172 48 172 Balls bowled – – – 12 Wickets – – – 1 Bowling average – – – – 5 wickets in innings – – – 0 10 wickets in match – – – n/a Best bowling – – – 1/0 Catches/stumpings 379/37 417/55 17/0 526/65

Source: CricketArchive, 4 December 2013

 

Since he is in the first season, I am happy to take his current performances which have translated in to an Ind win but yeah, would have appreciated more! 

Edited September 5, 2018 by zen

[putrevus]

7 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

No ... 2nd new ball was moving for quite some time during that innings ... Pradeep and Kumara were bowling well ... and Kumara was bowling 145 k and Pradeep was lively too.

They picked up two wickets thats how well they were bowling, I am not here to undermine Pandya but he is simply not consistent enough with bat or ball.

 

I just don't see the ability to bat well against fast bowlers in him.I hope he proves me wrong. I don't see how he is a big upgrade over Stuart Binny,who will also say he scored 78 in England and if he was given enough chances he would have established himself.

[swastikpanda2]

35 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Pandya is batting in the top 6 or 7.  So, he has to show a certain consistency and responsibility with the bat irrespective of his bowling.

It won't happen. Can say that there is 90% chance, he won't.

The team management has messed up Pandya experiment. 

 

They burden Pandya to become a improved bowler in LOI because he is the fifth bowler.

 

And want Pandya to be a player in Test who will contribute more with bat and won't be given more than 10 overs an innings.

 

There is no clarity. He has different roles in different format. He can't improve this way. He will most probably be a Afridi 2.0.

Impact player, Inconsistent bowler, Inconsistent batsman, Can win you a match on his day. 

 

Are there any world class all rounder who didn't have any primary skill? I only think of Shakib Al Hasan, who I don't think belongs to ATG level. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by swastikpanda2

[zen]

7 minutes ago, swastikpanda2 said:

There is no clarity. He has different roles in different format. He can't improve this way. He will most probably be a Afridi 2.0.

Impact player, Inconsistent bowler, Inconsistent batsman, Can win you a match on his day. 

 

In a way, he is currently similar to an Afridi, but that may not necessarily be a bad thing depending up on how the team's composition is 

[swastikpanda2]

4 minutes ago, zen said:

In a way, he is currently similar to an Afridi, but that may not necessarily be a bad thing depending up on how the team's composition is 

Different perspectives.

I would prefer a batting all rounder/ bowling all rounder over a pure all-rounder. 

 

[zen]

2 minutes ago, swastikpanda2 said:

Different perspectives.

I would prefer a batting all rounder/ bowling all rounder over a pure all-rounder. 

 

If we have compelling choices, we can go by our preferences .... and if we had Sobers or Hadlee, there would be no such debates

Edited September 5, 2018 by zen

[express bowling]

32 minutes ago, putrevus said:

They picked up two wickets thats how well they were bowling, 

 

In the very short run, good bowling does not always fetch wickets.

 

That 1 hour with the 2nd new ball was very challenging in that test.

Edited September 5, 2018 by express bowling

[zen]

One other problem is that people look at the scorecard and comment with the benefit of hindsight. But before the game, we do not know if an extra bowler or a batsman would be needed. Who would have thought Ashwin would ball badly on a relatively helpful track after doing well in the 1st test, a Rahul would be a failure, or a Pandya would win us a game with the ball. Which is why the first step is to optimize the specialist slots 

[express bowling]

7 minutes ago, swastikpanda2 said:

.

I would prefer a batting all rounder/ bowling all rounder over a pure all-rounder. 

 

 

A good batsman who can bowl somewhat,  would be ideal.  Problem is ...  we don't have one.   Bigger problem is ... we don't have a good batsman apart from Kohli, in SENA countries.

 

[coffee_rules]

Going by practice today, it seems like Pandya will be dropped for Jadeja/Vihari! 

 

If we can't chase 200 runs in I4 in 4 occasions in SENA, the team composition is bad. Compare the openers of the two teams, both pairs have failed (except in T3 we had 50+ partnership in both innings by Dhawan/Rahul).  Vijay was dropped for his pair in Lords. 

[coffee_rules]

3 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

A good batsman who can bowl somewhat,  would be ideal.  Problem is ...  we don't have one.   Bigger problem is ... we don't have a good batsman apart from Kohli, in SENA countries.

 

Since our pacers have stepped up in SENA, isn't it better to strengthen the batting more by having a specialist batsman at #6?

[Lannister]

Again his bowling was hopeless in the last Test match. Get another competent bowler who could atleast take wickets if not scoring runs. He's getting a free ride under the pretext of all-rounder. 

[GautiMaan]

5 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Since our pacers have stepped up in SENA, isn't it better to strengthen the batting more by having a specialist batsman at #6?

Looks like we will go that way in the fifth test.Did having Pandya in the team have any role in them stepping up,I guess we will see in the next match.

But I suspect our bowling wont have enough teeth and England will rack up 400+ if we play with only 4 bowlers.

Edited September 6, 2018 by GautiMaan

[express bowling]

7 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Since our pacers have stepped up in SENA, isn't it better to strengthen the batting more by having a specialist batsman at #6?

 

1 less bowler would mean more overs for each pacer ... this could lead to less intensity from them.

 

Most top bowling sides had part time bowlers who could bowl 8 to 10 overs a day if needed  ... the Waugh brother and later on Symonds, when the Waughs retired, for the great Australian team of 1994 to 2007.   Richards and Larry Gomes for the great West Indian team of 1976 to 1985.

 

Even India usually had someone who could bowl, in the top 7.  Ganguly, Sehwag, Tendulkar, Shastri ... Prabhakar or Bangar when they opened.

 

This Team needs someone in the top 7 who can bowl 8 to 10 overs a day if needed.   

 

A good quality batsman who can do this, is the ideal choice.

Edited September 6, 2018 by express bowling