Question mark over stats of some of the Pak greats

[zen]

The concept of neutral umpires was introduced because of Pak

[Khota]

Miranda is loser. Let us not denigrate the accomplishments of wasim akram who has inspired a generation of players on both side of the border. He was the greatest and we need to respect that.

 

[rtmohanlal]

41 minutes ago, Pace90 said:

Here we go again, Pakistan bashing , favorite pastime of some (others are educated cricket followers ) here. I knew Miandad is not very popular here but now Imran Kahn too ?

Pakistan bashing for genuine reasons ..... yes

[Muloghonto]

5 hours ago, Pace90 said:

By Imran Khan.

Yes, once the camera angles changed with better zoom technology in the late 80s, the advantage Pakistanis had with their crooked umpires largely disappeared. Which is why it made it easy for him to ask for neutral umpires. Sort of the same reason why the British go around beating their chests about ending slavery & slave trade.

[rtmohanlal]

In padosi passion sites ,  it is a blasphemy to even utter 'tamper' w.r.t this shame less selfish ball tamperor Khan .It is understandable that Pakistanis  in such sites adore   this cheat as some sort of  extra ordinary human being who would have done nothing wrong in his active days because they need some one to glorify for their own mental satisfactions.But unfortunately a few Indians too becomes hesitant and even supports when to comes to this man's credentials  for some selfish motive.

[Rightarmfast]

It is true that Imran khan benefitted most while playing in Pakistan ( avg- 19.2) with with 163 wickets in 38 matches. His average while playing in other countries varied between 24- 28. If we take a mean of the averages, discounting performances in Pakistan, it would still come around 26ish which is pretty respectable. 

Out of the 362 wickets, if we minus around 30-40 extra wickets, the count would still come around 300. For an allrounder, thats a fantastic record. 

Even after we discount everything, Imran was still a great leader, and the first recognized genuine fast bowler from Asia, apart from Md Nissar. Although, Imran realistically was a fast medium bowler, not an express bowler. 

Imran Khan's stats might be bloated a bit, but even if tone it down by whatever no, it still doesnt take away the greatness that Imran had. He would still be one of the best allrounders and one of the players to have played the game.

[rtmohanlal]

27 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

It is true that Imran khan benefitted most while playing in Pakistan ( avg- 19.2) with with 163 wickets in 38 matches. His average while playing in other countries varied between 24- 28. If we take a mean of the averages, discounting performances in Pakistan, it would still come around 26ish which is pretty respectable. 

Out of the 362 wickets, if we minus around 30-40 extra wickets, the count would still come around 300. For an allrounder, thats a fantastic record. 

Even after we discount everything, Imran was still a great leader, and the first recognized genuine fast bowler from Asia, apart from Md Nissar. Although, Imran realistically was a fast medium bowler, not an express bowler. 

Imran Khan's stats might be bloated a bit, but even if tone it down by whatever no, it still doesnt take away the greatness that Imran had. He would still be one of the best allrounders and one of the players to have played the game.

So are you claiming that a man who would do this type of  unethical  thing and to any extend in that regard for sporting success would limit his noble exercises in home country alone, especially in those far lesser technologically advanced single camera days. ???? I don't think so.

Yes , a great leader  who needed to resort to such unethical & unfair matters for enabling him to lead from the front(leading from the front is the basic requisite of every  great captain), who chose as and when to play as per his own convenience,  who shrewdly selected the time periods to bowl in when he got older(by  bowling a lot  when the ball conditions,pitch conditions,climatic conditions etc were the most favourable to bowl in ) so that  his  stats wouldn't suffer by any stretch, who passed on his expertise in this dirty trick   to his inheritors ( especially the 2 Ws) needs to be still regarded as a great captain.

[Rightarmfast]

37 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

So are you claiming that a man who would do this type of  unethical  thing and to any extend in that regard for sporting success would limit his noble exercises in home country alone, especially in those far lesser technologically advanced single camera days. ???? I don't think so.

Yes , a great leader  who needed to resort to such unethical & unfair matters for enabling him to lead from the front(leading from the front is the basic requisite of every  great captain), who chose as and when to play as per his own convenience,  who shrewdly selected the time periods to bowl in when he got older(by  bowling a lot  when the ball conditions,pitch conditions,climatic conditions etc were the most favourable to bowl in ) so that  his  stats wouldn't suffer by any stretch, who passed on his expertise in this dirty trick   to his inheritors ( especially the 2 Ws) needs to be still regarded as a great captain.

I am only talking about him as a player. I am not taking into account the ball tampering he did. We cant discount the fact that he built a fast bowling culture in Pakistan and with or without tampering, the Pakistanis did produce some great fast bowlers. 

 

How can you ignore that fact?

[rtmohanlal]

2 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

I am only talking about him as a player. I am not taking into account the ball tampering he did. We cant discount the fact that he built a fast bowling culture in Pakistan and with or without tampering, the Pakistanis did produce some great fast bowlers. 

 

How can you ignore that fact?

A fast bowling culture is valid only if  it is thru ethical , legal means.Even if Imran tampered the ball to any extend, I would have credited him if he traced out & encouraged  genuinely talented fast bowlers  with out asking them to resort to this evil method. But from all possible evidences it is clear that his most prominent inheritors the 2 Ws too were  guilty of this evil practice may be in lesser degrees.

Another important point to take note is that sheer pace is a 'double edged sword'. The same pace that can be a blessing to a bowler  if he possess the control  to go with it can be the reason for his undoing  with out control. Cricketing history is full of such 'mere good' to 'utter mediocre' fast  bowlers  like Jeoff Thompson,Lee,Patterson,Roach,Chetan Sharma,Sreenath,Umesh,Aaron,Sami,Akhtar,Malcolm,Paul Jarvis, Neil Fraser,Lance klusener,Dilhara Fernando,Malinka, Ravindra Pushparkumara, Champaka Ramanayake etc etc. What they didn't posses is this element of 'adequate control' to go with their pace.

What ball tampering brings into equation is deadly  unpredictable  & unconventional swing movement & along with it mammoth control.

That means these so called fast bowlers who practiced this evil method could even have turned into mere average bowlers  with out  this practice  as history of the game itself reveals. 

Edited October 8, 2018 by rtmohanlal

[Rightarmfast]

If it works for you. It sounds to me you are going out of your way to prove no Pakistani bowler ever was a champion bowler. Its the same kind of lahori logic Pakistanis use to say Sachin was a selfish batsman. To each his own.

[rtmohanlal]

9 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

If it works for you. It sounds to me you are going out of your way to prove no Pakistani bowler ever was a champion bowler. Its the same kind of lahori logic Pakistanis use to say Sachin was a selfish batsman. To each his own.

as you said, to each his own. But yet   ' you are going out of your way to prove no Pakistani bowler ever was a champion bowler' is a mere emotional statement rather than having any logic. Why so  because ball tampering by any yardstick is unethical & unfair by huge margin .On the other hand selfish in  sports is not that much of an unethical qlty,if any a little.  

[Lala]

Bhai we have proofs too. 

 

 

 

 

[Khota]

On 10/5/2018 at 5:23 PM, Pace90 said:

By Imran Khan.

The reason for that was many teams threatened not to tour Pakistan. Agreed umpiring was biased everywhere but it was at a different level in Pakistan.

Once again one of the greatest cricketer ever Wasim is from pakistan and to belittle him lowers the credibility of this forum. Most of us will always respect him. Also let us not forget the most exciting ever Sohaib. he was the ultimate entertainer.

Whenever I discuss great cricket players from pakistan I treat them with same respect as Indians. Miandad was a jerk but that is besides the point.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Khota

[sandeep]

2 hours ago, Khota said:

The reason for that was many teams threatened not to tour Pakistan. Agreed umpiring was biased everywhere but it was at a different level in Pakistan.

Once again one of the greatest cricketer ever Wasim is from pakistan and to belittle him lowers the credibility of this forum. Most of us will always respect him. Also let us not forget the most exciting ever Sohaib. he was the ultimate entertainer.

Whenever I discuss great cricket players from pakistan I treat them with same respect as Indians. Miandad was a jerk but that is besides the point.

Wasim Akram was a great bowler no doubt, but his achievements should have an asterisk similar to the one that Mohammed Azharuddin has.  I loved Azhar as a kid.  Was a huge fan of his.  Its a farce that someone like Akram is allowed to walk around unscathed, just because the Pakistani Judge in charge of the inquiry was a 'fan'.  

 

Again, I think its silly to go as far as claim that all of Imran, Javed and Wasim's achievements are fraudulent. They were quality cricketers who most likely would have quality careers without resorting to the underhanded tactics that they did.  Their skill isn't negated by their poor choices.  But its a part of the picture.  Whitewashing it in the name of 'respect' is just as silly.

[CSK Fan]

I wouldn't say a question mark. I would say an asterix against their stats would suffice

[mishra]

Paak Greats.. Paak Cheats...

What difference they make? 

[mishra]

8 hours ago, Lala said:

Bhai we have proofs too. 

 

 

 

 

Lala, stats @Rightarmfast posted about Imran clearly shows he was a different player at home. So, if i am to go by thise stas, i have to wonder how Pitches in Pakistan and Sharjah were providing more bounce swing in olden days while Australia Newzealand England used to produce phattaa?

 

BTW , Second video hasnt got any Indian umpire making decision 

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by mishra

[zen]

8 hours ago, Lala said:

Bhai we have proofs too. 

 

Exceptions do not make rules