“Leave India,” Virat Kohli Tells Fan Who Like Foreign Batsmen More Than Indian Batsmen and the tale of Sachin and his Ferrari

[beetle]

3 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

In this case, Tendulkar simply stuck to his peerless conduct by not further getting involved. A true role model behaviour by any standards, unlike Virat 'the Hitler' Kohli.

peerless.....

Bhai you were better off as an atheist.

 

 

[beetle]

Mulo and underscore.....keep the wives out of this .....

 

[Muloghonto]

19 minutes ago, beetle said:

peerless.....

Bhai you were better off as an atheist.

 

 

avoiding controversy and not sticking out for the wrong reasons is pretty much the hallmark of good behaviour. 

 

34 minutes ago, beetle said:

Only the country was losing 1 crore + in duty that would have gone towards the running of the country.

Sure. And he has every right to request said waiver. Everyone has that right. As i said - do you deliberately put tax-deductible business expense under your personal expense, just so that you can pay more taxes than required, so country does not struggle ?

34 minutes ago, beetle said:

From now everyone can start getting gifts from employers ( he was advertising for the gifters at one time.... I think ) instead of pay checks .

Except Tendulkar was not given gifts in lieu of paycheques. 

34 minutes ago, beetle said:

Similarly he was trying to pass a favor with the defence ministry for his ex partner ...again ,a rather convenient arrangement.

??? 

34 minutes ago, beetle said:

The  god of yours is very morally flexible when it comes to money .

He is the best example of a professional sportsman India has ever produced and one of the greats of the world in this regard. Not a God of mine. Everyone is pretty morally flexible when it comes to money - those who pretend otherwise, are pure liars. 

If you want to pretend you are morally inflexible about money - show us how you've given more to the taxman than you were legally obliged to. Blot out the adhaar info and names and such and show us how you declared a tax-deductible as not so. Otherwise, you have no basis on taking moral high road over something NOBODY ever takes moral high-road over: money.

Yet, Tendulkar has donated crores of his earned money to charities. More than you or I ever will. 

[Mariyam]

7 hours ago, beetle said:

I am not a lawyer so will stick to plain speak.

Getting the exemption waiver using political contacts is corruption.

Trying to get undue favors for friend/ ex business partner  though political connections is corruption.

 

If the waiver was legal...the court would not have made him cough the dues through the so called gifter.

 

I don't know in which world this is not called corruption . To most people who don't have bhakt blinders on...it is blatant misuse of ones influence to get undue benifits through morally flexible politicians.

 

 

Almost all of what you've written is plain wrong.

Exemption as a one off is possible in India only using political contacts/ writing to a sitting MLA/Union Minister. That is not corruption. That is following the law of the land.

 

The act of the waiver was legal and constitutional. Your saying no, doesn't change the fact. The PIL got a lot of publicity, because it is Sachin, and the courts *were* pressurized. The verdict in no way called Sachin a duty evader as you have on many occasions. Neither did it call him corrupt. It was a verdict more on the reason of exemption, which it said didn't help in nation building. It was an open verdict and would have been challenged by the ruling NDA government, had FIAT not stepped in and paid the tariffs. 

 

What I find very strange is that you are okay throwing random allegations on Sachin. Calling him tax evader, corrupt and what not when the courts of the land have said nothing of the sort. These are serious allegations and shouldn't be used around so lightly. 

[Mariyam]

2 hours ago, Khota said:

And that is the point you are missing. India is a democratic republic and everyone has the same rights. Where does the constitution say that rich people have more rights?

 

What are you on about?  

 

Muloghonto didn't break Bradman's record and he too applied for an exemption. So can you. 

 

What exactly stops you, or any citizen, from applying for an exemption? 

Edited November 10, 2018 by Mariyam

[sourab10forever]

So the same applies to IPL as well? Ones in Karnataka should only like RCB. Ones in Delhi should not even play for RCB.

[beetle]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

If you want to pretend you are morally inflexible about money - show us how you've given more to the taxman than you were legally obliged to. Blot out the adhaar info and names and such and show us how you declared a tax-deductible as not so. Otherwise, you have no basis on taking moral high road over something NOBODY ever takes moral high-road over: money.

Yet, Tendulkar has donated crores of his earned money to charities. More than you or I ever will. 

Wtf!

I paid taxes on the meagre income I earned as a teacher and so does my spouse.

We don't try to get favors from politicians for things that are not legal .

If it was legal( the exemption)...the court would have said so.

 

Most of the said donations and adoption of villages were part of the fund that RS members get to use for social work. It is the easier way out.

 

It is better if a person lives a fair life as a citizen and pay all dues than give donation in the name of charity.

 

The bhakts of Tendulkar are as blind as the bhakts of dhoni.....

Edited November 10, 2018 by beetle

[Vilander]

1 hour ago, Mariyam said:

Almost all of what you've written is plain wrong.

Exemption as a one off is possible in India only using political contacts/ writing to a sitting MLA/Union Minister. That is not corruption. That is following the law of the land.

 

The act of the waiver was legal and constitutional. Your saying no, doesn't change the fact. The PIL got a lot of publicity, because it is Sachin, and the courts *were* pressurized. The verdict in no way called Sachin a duty evader as you have on many occasions. Neither did it call him corrupt. It was a verdict more on the reason of exemption, which it said didn't help in nation building. It was an open verdict and would have been challenged by the ruling NDA government, had FIAT not stepped in and paid the tariffs. 

 

What I find very strange is that you are okay throwing random allegations on Sachin. Calling him tax evader, corrupt and what not when the courts of the land have said nothing of the sort. These are serious allegations and shouldn't be used around so lightly. 

Beetles is moral reasoning yours is legal reasoning both are correct actually.

[Muloghonto]

12 minutes ago, beetle said:

Wtf!

I paid taxes on the meagre income I earned as a teacher and so does my spouse.

So you don't give the government a penny more than what you are forced to- why should anyone else ?!

12 minutes ago, beetle said:

We don't try to get favors from politicians for things that are not legal .

If you ever wanted an import duty waved, which IS legal, you'd have to ask a politician. Its a simple mechanism. 

12 minutes ago, beetle said:

If it was legal( the exemption)...the court would have said so.

The exemption was legal. Court wasn't happy for the CAUSE of the exemption filed, which the defendant would most likely have won anyways ( as the legal expert here has said MANY TIMES!) but is a moot point because Fiat paid the duties.

12 minutes ago, beetle said:

Most of the said donations and adoption of villages were part of the fund that RS members get to use for social work. It is the easier way out.

Again, he has donated more $$ from his pocket than you or I ever will. 

12 minutes ago, beetle said:

It is better if a person lives a fair life as a citizen and pay all dues than give donation in the name of charity.

It is better if people are not expected to just give away their money because they are rich and be treated like crap because they applied for an import duty exemption that you or I are also allowed to apply for. 

12 minutes ago, beetle said:

The bhakts of Tendulkar are as blind as the bhakts of dhoni.....

We are not blind, we are just simply amused by the contortions going through the anti-tendy club for Tendy doing what every honest person does in his position - apply for an exemption for importing a luxury item. And then getting slandered by it. 

[Muloghonto]

12 minutes ago, Vilander said:

Beetles is moral reasoning yours is legal reasoning both are correct actually.

no. legal reasoning is correct, moral reasoning is an opinion as there is no empiric morality. I find her moral reasoning definitely immoral, where the implication is applying for something a citizen has the RIGHT to (import duty exemption), is corruption, where rich people should just freely give away their money, etc etc.

[Vilander]

2 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

u in T-dot ?

why did you miss your chance ?! Btw, snow and -25 sucks but 95% of days between Nov and March being totally dark and drizzling cold rain is also quite depressing.

Yup.. Got a nice job offer but avoided because of cost of living..i think the novelty is the sorrounding natural scenary the mountainous area that makes surrey and vancouver much preferable.

[Vilander]

2 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

no. legal reasoning is correct, moral reasoning is an opinion as there is no empiric morality. I find her moral reasoning definitely immoral, where the implication is applying for something a citizen has the RIGHT to (import duty exemption), is corruption, where rich people should just freely give away their money, etc etc.

Its an opinion yes. 

[beetle]

1 minute ago, Muloghonto said:

rich people should just freely give away their money, etc etc.

Rich people should give their dues like normal people do.....not find easier ways out because of their influence and reach with the politicians and babus.

 

 

[Muloghonto]

4 minutes ago, beetle said:

Rich people should give their dues like normal people do.....not find easier ways out because of their influence and reach with the politicians and babus.

So if you found a way to have a tax waived, LEGALLY, you'd refuse it ? Yes/no please.

 

Did you miss the part, where you HAVE TO write a letter to the MLA to get an import duty waived, whether you are Modi or Tendulkar or me ?!

 

So when the system REQUIRES YOU to write to the MLA, writing to the MLA is corruption...go figure....

Edited November 10, 2018 by Muloghonto

[Muloghonto]

4 minutes ago, Vilander said:

Yup.. Got a nice job offer but avoided because of cost of living..i think the novelty is the sorrounding natural scenary the mountainous area that makes surrey and vancouver much preferable.

then apply again....

[Vilander]

1 minute ago, Muloghonto said:

then apply again....

May be in time.. Taking it easy for now.

[beetle]

2 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

it is perfectly fine. As i said, its the perk of being a celebrity - they get prefferential treatment over discretionary things. They also have major drawbacks- such as lack of privacy, so some perks to cancel out some drawbacks are perfectly fine.

 

No...the perks of being a celebrity and the compensation for lack of privacy  is the fame and money .....and in some cases bhakti of fans.

 

Getting some politician to write of dues to the govt does not come under the perks of celibrities.

[beetle]

6 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

So if you found a way to have a tax waived, LEGALLY, you'd refuse it ? Yes/no please.

 

Did you miss the part, where you HAVE TO write a letter to the MLA to get an import duty waived, whether you are Modi or Tendulkar or me ?!

 

So when the system REQUIRES YOU to write to the MLA, writing to the MLA is corruption...go figure....

I bet he has people around to tell him if the waiver meets all requirements or not . He has the money for lawyers to check if the ferrari met the criteria of ' betterment of the people' .

 

There is a difference between a normal citizen writing a letter for a request to the concerned people for waiver if legal and someone of influence using his influence with the politician to get the waiver. 

 

In the first case it is  following due process while in the second case it is misuse of influence.

 

If a normal citizen had applied,the waiver would have been refused because it did not meet all the criteria required to grant the waiver.( as the court agreed).

 

Sachin got the waiver inspite of not meeting the criteria because of his position and influence with the minister.

 

I hope you can see the difference in the cases.

[Muloghonto]

11 minutes ago, beetle said:

I bet he has people around to tell him if the waiver meets all requirements or not . He has the money for lawyers to check if the ferrari met the criteria of ' betterment of the people' .

ANYONE can apply for the exemption for ANY imported goods. How many times do i have to say that ? Its the MINISTER'S JOB to determine if the DISCRETIONARY WAIVER HE/SHE ISSUES meets the criteria. 

Quote

 

There is a difference between a normal citizen writing a letter for a request to the concerned people for waiver if legal and someone of influence using his influence with the politician to get the waiver. 

So someone of influence should not use the same exact mechanism he/she is entitled to, as a citizen because they are famous, but its okay for the normal citizen to follow procedures ?! Sounds like hating on the rich to me....

 

Whether you are rich and famous or a no-name guy like me, you STILL HAVE TO WRITE TO THE POLITICIAN....so when a normal guy writes it, its okay. But when a celebrity does the same, its corruption...thats pretty salty.

Quote

 

In the first case it is  following due process while in the second case it is misuse of influence.

Nope. Just because i am famous does not mean i am misusing the exact same process a non-famous person is using, both of which we are LEGALLY ENTITLED to use. 

Quote

If a normal citizen had applied,the waiver would have been refused because it did not meet all the criteria required to grant the waiver.( as the court agreed).

You have no way of knowing that. The discretion lies with the minister in charge of where it is being imported to. Infact, the whole saga hit the news because it was a celibrity - normal people would've had it approved and fly under radar.

Quote

Sachin got the waiver inspite of not meeting the criteria because of his position and influence with the minister.

The criteria is to be determined AT THE DISCRETION OF THE MINISTER. Its a discretionary waiver, the power of discretion rests with the minister. There is no way for another party to judge if they meet or do not meet the criteria !

Quote

I hope you can see the difference in the cases.

The difference it seems is that you want rich people to not use the same exact legal mechanism availble to them that regular people can use, because apparently being rich and famous is automatically being corrupt in your books.

 

Edited November 10, 2018 by Muloghonto

[Muloghonto]

17 minutes ago, beetle said:

No...the perks of being a celebrity and the compensation for lack of privacy  is the fame and money .....and in some cases bhakti of fans.

No. Plenty of rich people out there who are NOT celebrities. A celebrity's perk is getting favorable outcome when its discretionary decisions. A random rich businessman does not get the same privilege- and does not have to put up with invasions of privacy either. 

17 minutes ago, beetle said:

Getting some politician to write of dues to the govt does not come under the perks of celibrities.

Anyone can ask the politician to write off the dues. Anyone. You, me, Modi, Dhoni, Tendulkar, Bacchan...anyone. You are simply being salty to the fact that being celebrity means they have a higher chance of it being approved, just like being a celibrity means having higher chance of making the cover of a fashion magazine. Sorry, but that seems like hating on celebrities out of jealousy.