One out of Ashwin, Jadeja or Bhuvi is must for this team irrespective of condition

[Austin 3:!6]

This is not related just to this match thread.

I know but just wanted to know if there is any issue with the site.

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[Samcric]

That's what I said in the pre-match thread as well. jadeja and Bhuvi should have played assuming they are both fit. Shami and Umesh are not good on 250-par wickets as they lack consistency. We get carried away by their bursts on batting friendly pitches. But we don't really value control in bowling or low-order runs unless we come across seaming/swinging conditions. Any one who saw Bhuvi get those 25-30 runs in South Africa and wickets with new ball would agree. 

Edited December 16, 2018 by Samcric

[Khota]

Any spinner would have done the job but one out of these three is not a must.

[sensible-indian]

Forget batting which they are decent at, their bowling is immense.

 

They add crazy balance to the side.

 

Imagine this lower order:

 

6. Pant 

7. Bhuvi

8. Jaddu

9. Ashwin (the more you attack his ego, the better he bats lol)

10. Ishant (solid blocker)

11. Bumrah 

 

Now add in 2 proper openers like Mayank/Shubhman and Shaw and the lineup becomes real tight.

 

1. Mayank/Shubhman

2. Shaw

3. Pujara

4. Kohli

5. Rahane

6. Pant

7. Bhuvi

8. Jaddu

9. Ashwin

10. Ishant

11. Bumrah

 

This is an all conditions XI.

 

Edit: I forgot Vihari. He can fight for a spot with one of the openers (and if he wins, Pujara can open). If Rahane sucks, he can take over that spot.

Edited December 16, 2018 by sensible-indian

[sensible-indian]

^Shami instead of Bhuvi might be ideal on certain pitches.

 

 

[rtmohanlal]

3 hours ago, goose said:

yeh I would have all three too

to think that 'Kuldeep+Ashwin+ Jadeja' can't return at the least same level results as 'Umesh+Ishant' is  as senseless as it can get  

[rtmohanlal]

3 hours ago, goose said:

yeh I would have all three too

to think that 'Kuldeep+Ashwin+ Jadeja' can't return at the least same level results as 'Umesh+Ishant' is  as senseless as it can get  

[rtmohanlal]

14 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

Forget batting which they are decent at, their bowling is immense.

 

They add crazy balance to the side.

 

Imagine this lower order:

 

6. Pant 

7. Bhuvi

8. Jaddu

9. Ashwin (the more you attack his ego, the better he bats lol)

10. Ishant (solid blocker)

11. Bumrah 

 

Now add in 2 proper openers like Mayank/Shubhman and Shaw and the lineup becomes real tight.

 

1. Mayank/Shubhman

2. Shaw

3. Pujara

4. Kohli

5. Rahane

6. Pant

7. Bhuvi

8. Jaddu

9. Ashwin

10. Ishant

11. Bumrah

 

This is an all conditions XI.

exactly....  unless it is  'Perth' sort of wkt, I would replace Ishant with Bhuvi as well, because   'bowling+batting' output of Bhuvi can convincingly exceed that of Ishant unless it is such a pitch with literally no swing at all.

[rtmohanlal]

14 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

Forget batting which they are decent at, their bowling is immense.

 

They add crazy balance to the side.

 

Imagine this lower order:

 

6. Pant 

7. Bhuvi

8. Jaddu

9. Ashwin (the more you attack his ego, the better he bats lol)

10. Ishant (solid blocker)

11. Bumrah 

 

Now add in 2 proper openers like Mayank/Shubhman and Shaw and the lineup becomes real tight.

 

1. Mayank/Shubhman

2. Shaw

3. Pujara

4. Kohli

5. Rahane

6. Pant

7. Bhuvi

8. Jaddu

9. Ashwin

10. Ishant

11. Bumrah

 

This is an all conditions XI.

exactly....  unless it is  'Perth' sort of wkt, I would replace Ishant with Bhuvi as well, because   'bowling+batting' output of Bhuvi can convincingly exceed that of Ishant unless it is such a pitch with literally no swing at all.

[rtmohanlal]

first and foremost, that blood sucking shame less leech  Sastri should be kicked out and never allowed any way near the dressing room.

'Talent at the disposal of  this moron'  is only as worth as   'a beautiful garland in the hands of a monkey' .

[RAZPOR]

even pandya woiuld have been much better than yadaav this match

[vvvslaxman]

That is backward thinking guys. We should let Bumrah, Shami, Ishant improve their batting instead of sitting them out. UNless you find something wrong with their bowling you should consider those options. Once Pandya is back our balance will be somewhat restored. You can have Bumrah, Ishant, Shami/Jadeja/Ashwin , Pandya depending on the conditions.  But our problem is not their batting. Our problem is opening. We ha 3 fifty parntership in a row. 4th 50 partnership was on the cards before Nigel long did us in. 

If only openers had stitched another 50 partnership we would have even taken a lead. 

[rtmohanlal]

44 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

That is backward thinking guys. We should let Bumrah, Shami, Ishant improve their batting instead of sitting them out. UNless you find something wrong with their bowling you should not consider those options. Once Pandya is back our balance will be somewhat restored. You can have Bumrah, Ishant, Shami/Jadeja/Ashwin , Pandya depending on the conditions.  But our problem is not their batting. Our problem is opening. We ha 3 fifty parntership in a row. 4th 50 partnership was on the cards before Nigel long did us in. 

If only openers had stitched another 50 partnership we would have even taken a lead. 

Umesh,Ishant & Shami are by no means world class  bowlers. If we play 4 seamers , it is a guarantee that  at the least one of them (most probably Umesh) if not 2 would be far off w.r.t performance. In other words playing some one  like Jadeja or Bhuvi can give more or less the same bowling performance and at the same time put some runs too. 

[vvvslaxman]

10 hours ago, rtmohanlal said:

Umesh,Ishant & Shami are by no means world class  bowlers. If we play 4 seamers , it is a guarantee that  at the least one of them (most probably Umesh) if not 2 would be far off w.r.t performance. In other words playing some one  like Jadeja or Bhuvi can give more or less the same bowling performance and at the same time put some runs too. 

Umesh batted better than both KL Rahul and Vijay. He blocked out the fastest yorker of the match with ease. Why can't we replace those duds with Bhuvi and Jaddu?

[zen]

Of the 3 choices:

 

a) Ashwin is probably in the last phase of his career as his batting and bowling has regressed.  May be he is a couple of bad series away from probably getting dropped (overseas)

b) Jadeja's LAS bowling inspires little confidence as far as consistency is concerned in overseas conditions 

c) Bhuvi looks like a relatively strong bet in overseas conditions which favor swing but there are other bowling options too and it appears as if TM does not have much confidence in him (can't blame them) 

 

Unless it is a flat surface (where the specialist batsmen can fire) or one where the ball does a lot so you are never really in, and where a 20 odd can prove valuable, I would not consider these 3 for their 20s. I would rather play 4 best bowlers on form and conditions. If they happen to be among the 4, then great. Ideally, the 5th bowler, if played, would be be someone who has the potential to hit 100s  

 

In the current series, I would be more tempted to try out likes of Kuldeep, along with Ashwin/Jadeja. Melbourne and Sydney would assist spin relatively speaking. And then we have the 3 pace bowlers who are doing decently as a group .... Our batting is dependent on Pujara-Kohli, along with Rahane if he can cope with spin well in Melbourne and Sydney. Shaw can potentially strengthen the batting. Pant and Vihari can hopefully chip in too with the bat. So we can go with 5 bowlers, which would include Ashwin/Jadeja who can bat a bit

 

I hope we are able to find more solid long term options and focus on developing some players 

Edited December 17, 2018 by zen

[rtmohanlal]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

Umesh batted better than both KL Rahul and Vijay. He blocked out the fastest yorker of the match with ease. Why can't we replace those duds with Bhuvi and Jaddu?

u mean to open with Bhuvi & Jaddu??

[vvvslaxman]

7 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

u mean to open with Bhuvi & Jaddu??

Indian tail sucks. Adding just one no.8 batsman will help very little if your top 7 don't deliver. Because your 9,10,11 are still jokes with bat.  We are acting like no.8 will change course of the match.  We win matches these days because of bowling. Our batting consistently under-performed. It is bizarre to focus on batting ability of no.8  while forgetting batting ability of top order. We had Pandya in England. What happened? We still lost 1-4. 

[CSK Fan]

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Indian tail sucks. Adding just one no.8 batsman will help very little if your top 7 don't deliver. Because your 9,10,11 are still jokes with bat.  We are acting like no.8 will change course of the match.  We win matches these days because of bowling. Our batting consistently under-performed. It is bizarre to focus on batting ability of no.8  while forgetting batting ability of top order. We had Pandya in England. What happened? We still lost 1-4. 

When the victory and defeat margin are so low (20-40) runs, one single partnership can change the game. We have seen many close matches recently where from both sides lower order changed the course of the match 

[CSK Fan]

4 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Umesh batted better than both KL Rahul and Vijay. He blocked out the fastest yorker of the match with ease. Why can't we replace those duds with Bhuvi and Jaddu?

Lol no comment on Umesh bowling thought huh?