Jasprit Bumrah vs Tendulkar, Dravid, Laxman, Sehwag, Gavaskar and Ganguly

[MechEng]

How do you think this constest would go?

 

Bumrah reminds me a lot of Andy Roberts, same hit the deck seam bowlers with slingy action and inward seam movements at pace.

 

I think except for Gavaskar, others would have found it hard to score against him in test matches.

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, MechEng said:

How do you think this constest would go?

 

Bumrah reminds me a lot of Andy Roberts, same hit the deck seam bowlers with slingy action and inward seam movements at pace.

 

I think except for Gavaskar, others would have found it hard to score against him in test matches.

depends on who was supporting boomrah on the other end. in the few test matches he has played, he was fortunate to actually have a very able bowling attack backing him up comprising ishant 2.0, shami, ashwin, jaddu, etc. Boomrah is on his way to becoming India's best fast bowler, but all of them batsmen you named faced several ATG bowlers: McGrath, Donald, Akram, Waqar, Ambrose, Walsh, Pollock, etc, etc. in the 1990s and plenty in the 70s and 80s too. He would probably cause them some difficulties, but I think most of the above lineup can navigate him with the exception of ganguly and sehwag.

[MechEng]

1 minute ago, Vijy said:

depends on who was supporting boomrah on the other end. in the few test matches he has played, he was fortunate to actually have a very able bowling attack backing him up comprising ishant 2.0, shami, ashwin, jaddu, etc. Boomrah is on his way to becoming India's best fast bowler, but all of them batsmen you named faced several ATG bowlers: McGrath, Donald, Akram, Waqar, Ambrose, Walsh, Pollock, etc, etc. in the 1990s and plenty in the 70s and 80s too. He would probably cause them some difficulties, but I think most of the above lineup can navigate him with the exception of ganguly and sehwag.

I think Laxman would also have problems. He was not good against incoming deliveries which was exploited by Pakistani bowlers when they pitched it up.

[Vijy]

Just now, MechEng said:

I think Laxman would also have problems. He was not good against incoming deliveries which was exploited by Pakistani bowlers when they pitched it up.

Yes, I was unsettled about laxman. I think it depends on the pitch to a fairly high extent for Laxman. He was never very good at handling lateral movement, although he was very good if the pitch only had pace & bounce (as in Oz).

[Vijy]

9 minutes ago, MechEng said:

How do you think this constest would go?

 

Bumrah reminds me a lot of Andy Roberts, same hit the deck seam bowlers with slingy action and inward seam movements at pace.

 

I think except for Gavaskar, others would have found it hard to score against him in test matches.

A couple of differences concerning Roberts are that: (a) his action was quite conventional compared to Bumrah, and (b) he was slightly faster than boomrah as far as peak speed is concerned (I think he clocked 157-158 kmph as his fastest).

[Kothili]

The Wall and Ol' Fox can negotiate Bumrah.

[Vijy]

18 minutes ago, MechEng said:

How do you think this constest would go?

 

Bumrah reminds me a lot of Andy Roberts, same hit the deck seam bowlers with slingy action and inward seam movements at pace.

 

I think except for Gavaskar, others would have found it hard to score against him in test matches.

I'd replace Sehwag with Merchant, Ganguly with (peak) Amarnath, and then you will have a lineup that can handle Boom-Boomrah.

[MechEng]

27 minutes ago, Vijy said:

A couple of differences concerning Roberts are that: (a) his action was quite conventional compared to Bumrah, and (b) he was slightly faster than boomrah as far as peak speed is concerned (I think he clocked 157-158 kmph as his fastest).

I don't think Andy Roberts bowled in high 150's, there could be a speed gun glitch. His action is slightly more conventional but very similar still to Bumrah.

 

Just look at his head position when he releases the ball:

 

 

[Vijy]

2 minutes ago, MechEng said:

I don't think Andy Roberts bowled in high 150's, there could be a speed gun glitch. His action is slightly more conventional but very similar still to Bumrah.

 

Just look at his head position when he releases the ball:

 

 

Of course speed guns were not as reliable as now, but there is evidence that roberts could touch close to 160 kmph as far as his peak (not avg) speed is concerned.

 

http://i.imgci.com/link_to_database/STATS/FC/BOWLING/BOWLING_SPEEDS_OTHER.html

[Rasgulla]

Bumrah and starc would have ate sachin for dinner  He was the biggest Anderson bunny doubt he has any chance against these two. 

[Rightarmfast]

No, I dont think Roberts was a 160 or 155+ bowler. Its also the camera and the camera angles which create such visuals. Notice that it was the bounce which was disconcerting, not the pace. He looks quick, but I would say somewhere around 144-148. It could well be 138-140.. But its the bounce which was disconcerting. 

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, Rightarmfast said:

No, I dont think Roberts was a 160 or 155+ bowler. Its also the camera and the camera angles which create such visuals. Notice that it was the bounce which was disconcerting, not the pace. He looks quick, but I would say somewhere around 144-148. It could well be 138-140.. But its the bounce which was disconcerting. 

if we accept that thomson could reach a peak speed of 160 kmph, then it's true that roberts could reach a peak speed of 157-159 kmph. I accept that speed guns were not as accurate as now, but please see the link below:

 

http://i.imgci.com/link_to_database/STATS/FC/BOWLING/BOWLING_SPEEDS_OTHER.html

[rkt.india]

4 hours ago, MechEng said:

How do you think this constest would go?

 

Bumrah reminds me a lot of Andy Roberts, same hit the deck seam bowlers with slingy action and inward seam movements at pace.

 

I think except for Gavaskar, others would have found it hard to score against him in test matches.

Bumrah has a high arm action that is why he gets bounce despite not being very tall, not a slingy action.

[rkt.india]

35 minutes ago, Vijy said:

if we accept that thomson could reach a peak speed of 160 kmph, then it's true that roberts could reach a peak speed of 157-159 kmph. I accept that speed guns were not as accurate as now, but please see the link below:

 

http://i.imgci.com/link_to_database/STATS/FC/BOWLING/BOWLING_SPEEDS_OTHER.html

There's a huge difference in between Thomson and Roberts. In the video above, see how close are slips and wk and see how far wk stands for Starc. Roberts looks 140-145 bowler, not 155.

[Vijy]

14 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

There's a huge difference in between Thomson and Roberts. In the video above, see how close are slips and wk and see how far wk stands for Starc. Roberts looks 140-145 bowler, not 155. 

eyewitness accounts used to claim roberts was pretty fast, although clearly not on thommo's level. I guess we'll never know for certain due to lack of reliable measurements.

[rkt.india]

4 minutes ago, Vijy said:

eyewitness accounts used to claim roberts was pretty fast, although clearly not on thommo's level. I guess we'll never know for certain due to lack of reliable measurements.

 

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

No, I dont think Roberts was a 160 or 155+ bowler. Its also the camera and the camera angles which create such visuals. Notice that it was the bounce which was disconcerting, not the pace. He looks quick, but I would say somewhere around 144-148. It could well be 138-140.. But its the bounce which was disconcerting. 

 

Agree.  And even the steep bounce was partially due to this match being played on bouncy Australian pitch.

[express bowling]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Bumrah has a high arm action that is why he gets bounce despite not being very tall, not a slingy action.

 

Bumrah has a slingy action but not a sideways slingy action.  He rotates his bowling arm very quickly like a sling, a full  360 degrees starting from his hips ... and then  about 200 degrees more  ...  to release the ball at the top and marginally in front of his body.

 

Yes ... he has a very high arm action too ( as the slinging is done vertically and not diagonally like other slingy bowlers. )  and the length of his arms are long compared to his body. These 2 factors increase his release points and contribute to the steep bounce that he gets.

Edited July 3, 2019 by express bowling

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, Vijy said:

eyewitness accounts used to claim roberts was pretty fast, although clearly not on thommo's level. I guess we'll never know for certain due to lack of reliable measurements.

 

Whether a pacer is being perceived as fast in an environment depends largely on the speed of other pacers in that environment.

 

Let's say pacers B, C, D, E, F and G all bowl 120 k to 130 k ... then a pacer " A "  bowling 130 k to 140 k would be perceived as fast. 

 

In all sports involving speed, power etc. sportsmen of the 2000s and 2010s decade are quicker and more powerful than sportsmen of the 1970s and 1980s decade.  They are sprinting faster, running faster, swimming faster, lifting more weights etc. etc.  Must be happening in cricket too.  It is easily perceivable in fielding and running between the wickets.  

 

In the 1970s and 1980s, the quicker pacers used to bowl a lot of bouncers because of lack of adequate protective gear of batsmen ... and this gave them the reputation of being very quick. Even now, the bouncer is usually referred to as " that was a very quick ball " although it might register normal speeds.

 

The only video evidence I have seen of speeds of that era, the 1979 competition, shows Roberts bowling upto 140 k or 141 k.  Same with Holding. Thomson bowled upto 147 k.  And that was a speed competition. In a normal match situation it is bound to come down, especially in tests.

 

I find it very difficult to believe the claims of 159 kph bowled by Roberts. Thommo was a freak and he must have crossed 150 k at his peak though.  

Edited July 3, 2019 by express bowling

[Rightarmfast]

Also, Imran Khan has been said to be express fast by some. Theres no clear proof of that. In all the videos we have watched, he looks no more than 140-145 at his quickest. The bouncy pitches and lack of safety gear adds to this fable of ' express fast'.

 

Gavaskar also refers to Imran as fast. One would imagine, Imran and Gavaskar being Asians, Gavaskar always wanted to highlight Asians than the rest and wanted to downplay the whites and the west Indians. Gavaskar also have always called Qadir as a better bowler than Warnie. Something the other countries do not agree upon.