Why are we reluctant to develop or pick the next gen 140 k + pacers ?

[Cricwala]

5 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

I am a strong supporter of having any kind of 5th bowler, who is a seamer, for tests outside Asia.  Even if he is bowling 115 kph but can bowl a few tight overs.

 

Because this allows the frontline quicks to bowl with full intensity in their spells instead of becoming work horses ... especially on flatter tracks.

 

Someone like Dube is needed as a big hitter at No.7 in LOIs. His bowling is a bonus and is ok if he is the 6th bowler and not the 5th.

 

 

Exactly

[Cricwala]

6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

I am a strong supporter of having any kind of 5th bowler, who is a seamer, for tests outside Asia.  Even if he is bowling 115 kph but can bowl a few tight overs.

 

Because this allows the frontline quicks to bowl with full intensity in their spells instead of becoming work horses ... especially on flatter tracks.

 

Someone like Dube is needed as a big hitter at No.7 in LOIs. His bowling is a bonus and is ok if he is the 6th bowler and not the 5th.

 

 

Shankar at 6, Pant 7, Jadeja/Ash/Kuldeep 8 followed by 3 frontline quicks could be considered for NZ tests

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, Cricwala said:

Shankar at 6, Pant 7, Jadeja/Ash/Kuldeep 8 followed by 3 frontline quicks could be considered for NZ tests

 

How was Shankar's batting form in Ranji 2018-19  ?

[putrevus]

12 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Also why they aren't introducing young batsmen to prepare for next WC. 

how should they introduce them.What are new batsmen offering??

[rkt.india]

11 hours ago, putrevus said:

how should they introduce them.What are new batsmen offering??

There are plenty good young batsmen and until they play, no one will know what they offer. By 2023, most of our current players will be 35 or more. What if some of them go through bad form and you have to bring new players suddenly? We need to start preparing now.  We need replacement for Rohit, Dhawan, ready, even for Kohli. He will be 34 then and you never know when injury struck. Also, they Brought Jadhav back. What is the point? Will he play next WC at 39 years of age? Even young batsmen would need experience of 40-50 ODIs. We did blunders this WC when we didn't groom likes of Rahul properly. Rahul with experience of 10 ODIs and pant with 3-4 ODIs behind him played at crucial positions and then you expect to win WC. 

 

In 2011, we had so many experienced players, only Kohli was a youngster and even he had 30-40 ODIs behind him and here we go with players like Rahul, Pant, Shankar who hardly had any ODI experience.  There is no substitute of experience. Even if you are young, you need some experience of playing in those situations.

[putrevus]

11 hours ago, rkt.india said:

There are plenty good young batsmen and until they play, no one will know what they offer. By 2023, most of our current players will be 35 or more. What if some of them go through bad form and you have to bring new players suddenly? We need to start preparing now.  We need replacement for Rohit, Dhawan, ready, even for Kohli. He will be 34 then and you never know when injury struck. Also, they Brought Jadhav back. What is the point? Will he play next WC at 39 years of age? Even young batsmen would need experience of 40-50 ODIs. We did blunders this WC when we didn't groom likes of Rahul properly. Rahul with experience of 10 ODIs and pant with 3-4 ODIs behind him played at crucial positions and then you expect to win WC. 

 

In 2011, we had so many experienced players, only Kohli was a youngster and even he had 30-40 ODIs behind him and here we go with players like Rahul, Pant, Shankar who hardly had any ODI experience.  There is no substitute of experience. Even if you are young, you need some experience of playing in those situations.

Who are those batsmen, you don't remove exisiting players to play new comers.Kohli played in middle order and started as an opener.It is upto the new player to adapt to team needs.

 

Rahul was given every chance in test cricket to succeeed and what did he prove.Can you say he would have done well in odis.I don't think he would have done any better.There was no one worthy of trying for 2019 world cup except Iyer is one guy who should have been given more chances.

 

Pant is being given every chance in shorter formats.There are no middle order batsmen in country as of today other than Iyer and certainly no tonkers who can be useful for t20s.

 

They did not kick Sachin and co in 2011 to make way for Kohli. India plays so many matches in all formats and guy like Kohli is being given breaks so there will enough chances to all the new comers .It is upto them to grab those chances.

[putrevus]

On 11/21/2019 at 9:24 PM, express bowling said:

 

Mavi could have easily been in the ODI squad.

 

Could have worked under Arun / Kohli / Shastri.

 

I feel that ODI is the best format for introducing young pacers, especially bilateral ODIs against weaker teams  ( The T20 format is too brutal for the bowlers but we keep introducing young pacers via this route )  ( Test match berths are too precious and not easy to give to rookie bowlers )

Yes, he should have been part of the squad.I am glad that idiot MSK is out, he did not give any chance to youngsters even in domestic tournaments.

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

Who are those batsmen, you don't remove exisiting players to play new comers.Kohli played in middle order and started as an opener.It is upto the new player to adapt to team needs.

 

Rahul was given every chance in test cricket to succeeed and what did he prove.Can you say he would have done well in odis.I don't think he would have done any better.There was no one worthy of trying for 2019 world cup except Iyer is one guy who should have been given more chances.

 

Pant is being given every chance in shorter formats.There are no middle order batsmen in country as of today other than Iyer and certainly no tonkers who can be useful for t20s.

 

They did not kick Sachin and co in 2011 to make way for Kohli. India plays so many matches in all formats and guy like Kohli is being given breaks so there will enough chances to all the new comers .It is upto them to grab those chances.

You are mixing formats. If dhawan could do well in ODIs despite test failures why can't Rahul. Still Rahul scored the most number of runs in his first WC among Indians. 

[putrevus]

45 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

You are mixing formats. If dhawan could do well in ODIs despite test failures why can't Rahul. Still Rahul scored the most number of runs in his first WC among Indians. 

I am not mixing formats, you are hoping that Rahul would have succeeded in odis .I don't think Rahul meritted any more chances  than he got.

 

Youngsters should be given chances in only one format and it is upto them to prove that they need to be given chances in other formats.There are no youngster even today who merit a place in odis in middle order other than Iyer.

 

They have given chances to Dube and Pant to prove their credentials to next year T20 world cup.

 

They are not giving chance to young fast bowlers , India is loaded with talented young fast bowlers and they need to be given chances in all domestic tournaments also.MSK is an idiot in that regard but batting I just don't see any outstanding talent.

 

Dhawan won an ICC tournament with his bat after he got inducted into odi team and was again  very good in last world cup till he got injured. 

 

Edited November 23, 2019 by putrevus

[rkt.india]

22 hours ago, putrevus said:

I am not mixing formats, you are hoping that Rahul would have succeeded in odis .I don't think Rahul meritted any more chances  than he got.

 

Youngsters should be given chances in only one format and it is upto them to prove that they need to be given chances in other formats.There are no youngster even today who merit a place in odis in middle order other than Iyer.

 

They have given chances to Dube and Pant to prove their credentials to next year T20 world cup.

 

They are not giving chance to young fast bowlers , India is loaded with talented young fast bowlers and they need to be given chances in all domestic tournaments also.MSK is an idiot in that regard but batting I just don't see any outstanding talent.

 

Dhawan won an ICC tournament with his bat after he got inducted into odi team and was again  very good in last ware orld cup till he got injured. 

 

Really, 8-10 random games are enough to judge a player? Despite that, he still turned out to be the best WC debutant for India in WC history.

Edited November 24, 2019 by rkt.india

[Vijy]

On 11/21/2019 at 11:36 PM, express bowling said:

 

I am a strong supporter of having any kind of 5th bowler, who is a seamer, for tests outside Asia.  Even if he is bowling 115 kph but can bowl a few tight overs.

 

Because this allows the frontline quicks to bowl with full intensity in their spells instead of becoming work horses ... especially on flatter tracks.

 

Someone like Dube is needed as a big hitter at No.7 in LOIs. His bowling is a bonus and is ok if he is the 6th bowler and not the 5th.

 

 

I have such a bowler for you - the great rat. his "fast" bowling can put the fear of god into cricketers... turning out for the U-7 teams.

[Vijy]

On 11/21/2019 at 11:52 PM, express bowling said:

 

How was Shankar's batting form in Ranji 2018-19  ?

played very few matches, partly due to int'l commitments and injury I think. 4 matches and an avg of 43.6 but with no 100s. had a bowling avg of 107.5 with an ER of 3.90. even domestic boys gave him a lot of phainty. would almost rather take rat as the 6th bowler ahead of shankar.

[putrevus]

On 11/24/2019 at 10:48 AM, rkt.india said:

Really, 8-10 random games are enough to judge a player? Despite that, he still turned out to be the best WC debutant for India in WC history.

Again you are saying he deserves 100 matches in each format to prove his worth.He got enough matches in tests to prove he belongs in this level.He does not belong at this level at this point of time.The runs he scored in world cup could have been scored by 100 different domestic batsmen.When under pressure he showed his true worth in semis.

[Ankit_sharma03]

On 11/22/2019 at 10:22 AM, express bowling said:

 

How was Shankar's batting form in Ranji 2018-19  ?

shankar also was the highest run getter in 50 over last time NZ-A and then played only 2 innings in 4 day games and scored 50+ in both against NZ-A

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

Again you are saying he deserves 100 matches in each format to prove his worth.He got enough matches in tests to prove he belongs in this level.He does not belong at this level at this point of time.The runs he scored in world cup could have been scored by 100 different domestic batsmen.When under pressure he showed his true worth in semis.

then why cudnt kohli in his 1st Wc in home condition in much better form

Rohit in his 1st Wc when he played 7-8 yrs of international cricket score this much

 

These 2 are best ODI batsman currently, n ur saying 100.....u wnt even be able to name 20 batsman challenging for opening spot . 

 

No one deserves to be dropped after making 360 runs in Wc. Also havent they given 58 games to dhawan in t20 undeservingly 

Edited November 30, 2019 by Ankit_sharma03

[rkt.india]

30 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Again you are saying he deserves 100 matches in each format to prove his worth.He got enough matches in tests to prove he belongs in this level.He does not belong at this level at this point of time.The runs he scored in world cup could have been scored by 100 different domestic batsmen.When under pressure he showed his true worth in semis.

But no one has done that in history.

[Samcric]

On 11/30/2019 at 8:07 AM, Vijy said:

played very few matches, partly due to int'l commitments and injury I think. 4 matches and an avg of 43.6 but with no 100s. had a bowling avg of 107.5 with an ER of 3.90. even domestic boys gave him a lot of phainty. would almost rather take rat as the 6th bowler ahead of shankar.

Dube has a surprisingly good record in first class. Comparison of Batting & bowling averages (First class) of potential No.6:

Jadeja: 47 & 24

Pandya: 30 & 31

Vihari: 60 & 39

Shankar: 48 & 51

Dube: 48 & 24

 

 

 

[putrevus]

On 11/30/2019 at 9:13 AM, Ankit_sharma03 said:

then why cudnt kohli in his 1st Wc in home condition in much better form

Rohit in his 1st Wc when he played 7-8 yrs of international cricket score this much

 

These 2 are best ODI batsman currently, n ur saying 100.....u wnt even be able to name 20 batsman challenging for opening spot . 

 

No one deserves to be dropped after making 360 runs in Wc. Also havent they given 58 games to dhawan in t20 undeservingly 

Kohli did his part in the world cup finals, he stepped up after early fall of wickets and formed the partneship with Gambhir.There is nothing called first world cup or first tour.Either you belong or you don't belong.Rahul at this juncture does not belong in odi team.He got enough chances in other formats to show his talent.

[putrevus]

On 11/30/2019 at 9:24 AM, rkt.india said:

But no one has done that in history.

If Iyer played he would have been first too.

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

Kohli did his part in the world cup finals, he stepped up after early fall of wickets and formed the partneship with Gambhir.There is nothing called first world cup or first tour.Either you belong or you don't belong.Rahul at this juncture does not belong in odi team.He got enough chances in other formats to show his talent.

KL played his part in win against SA, PAK, SL . 

Kohli got a chance coz his team went to final in 2011, not KL fault if his team didnt. Everyone failed that day 

 

He got enough chances in other format coz he performed. When he didnt he got dropped.

This other format doesnt apply to dhawan who is a fail in 2 formats n keeps getting position in those 2 based on one format

 

In 23 ODI games if we decide someone doesnt belong there god help us and u defend a TM who hasnt still gotten enough by giving TTF like rayudu n karthik chances who have played 70+ games

Edited December 2, 2019 by Ankit_sharma03