Trichromatic Posted August 22, 2020 Posted August 22, 2020 In which format? Tests since NZ series 2016: Matches: 32 Inn: 45 Runs: 1374 Avg: 47.37 100s: 1 50s: 13 14 50+ knocks in 45 innings, which means he is able to score in every 3rd inning. He has picked 142 wickets at avg of 25.23 during same time. He is our 5th highest run getter. Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s V Kohli 2016-2020 41 69 6 3995 254* 63.41 6497 61.48 15 10 6 431 12 CA Pujara 2016-2020 42 70 3 3358 202 50.11 7495 44.80 11 18 5 391 9 AM Rahane 2016-2020 39 65 5 2341 188 39.01 4961 47.18 4 14 3 254 14 KL Rahul 2016-2019 28 47 2 1514 199 33.64 2622 57.74 2 10 6 184 9 RA Jadeja 2016-2020 32 45 16 1374 100* 47.37 2128 64.56 1 13 2 111 43 M Vijay 2016-2018 22 39 0 1345 155 34.48 2977 45.17 6 3 4 144 12 RG Sharma 2016-2019 14 22 5 1195 212 70.29 1799 66.42 4 6 0 124 32 MA Agarwal 2018-2020 11 17 0 974 243 57.29 1740 55.97 3 4 0 116 22 R Ashwin 2016-2020 35 46 3 950 72 22.09 1773 53.58 0 5 2 118 3 S Dhawan 2016-2018 12 21 0 869 190 41.38 1058 82.13 3 2 0 128 7 RR Pant 2018-2020 13 22 1 814 159* 38.76 1187 68.57 2 2 1 83 19 WP Saha 2016-2019 22 27 7 666 117 33.30 1354 49.18 2 3 3 64 8 GH Vihari 2018-2020 9 16 1 552 111 36.80 1154 47.83 1 4 1 74 2 HH Pandya 2017-2018 11 18 1 532 108 31.29 720 73.88 1 4 2 68 12 4th in number of 50+ scores despite playing lesser number of innings Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 50+ 4s 6s CA Pujara 2016-2020 42 70 3 3358 202 50.11 7495 44.80 11 18 5 29 391 9 V Kohli 2016-2020 41 69 6 3995 254* 63.41 6497 61.48 15 10 6 25 431 12 AM Rahane 2016-2020 39 65 5 2341 188 39.01 4961 47.18 4 14 3 18 254 14 RA Jadeja 2016-2020 32 45 16 1374 100* 47.37 2128 64.56 1 13 2 14 111 43 KL Rahul 2016-2019 28 47 2 1514 199 33.64 2622 57.74 2 10 6 12 184 9 RG Sharma 2016-2019 14 22 5 1195 212 70.29 1799 66.42 4 6 0 10 124 32 M Vijay 2016-2018 22 39 0 1345 155 34.48 2977 45.17 6 3 4 9 144 12 MA Agarwal 2018-2020 11 17 0 974 243 57.29 1740 55.97 3 4 0 7 116 22 R Ashwin 2016-2020 35 46 3 950 72 22.09 1773 53.58 0 5 2 5 118 3 S Dhawan 2016-2018 12 21 0 869 190 41.38 1058 82.13 3 2 0 5 128 7 HH Pandya 2017-2018 11 18 1 532 108 31.29 720 73.88 1 4 2 5 68 12 WP Saha 2016-2019 22 27 7 666 117 33.30 1354 49.18 2 3 3 5 64 8 GH Vihari 2018-2020 9 16 1 552 111 36.80 1154 47.83 1 4 1 5 74 2 He is the all rounder India should look forward to in tests, not Pandya.
zen Posted August 22, 2020 Posted August 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Trichromatic said: He is the all rounder India should look forward to in tests, not Pandya. If Pandya plays that many tests esp. at home, he could avg better with the bat Overseas too, Jadeja usually plays on relatively batting friendly surfaces iirc
Trichromatic Posted August 23, 2020 Author Posted August 23, 2020 13 hours ago, zen said: If Pandya plays that many tests esp. at home, he could avg better with the bat Overseas too, Jadeja usually plays on relatively batting friendly surfaces iirc There is no basis for that. Pandya is not a better batsman than Jaddu at any level, be it FC or tests. Difficult to say that he is technically superior either. Talent, technique, temperament, no factor to show that he could be better batsman than Jadeja.
Trichromatic Posted August 23, 2020 Author Posted August 23, 2020 If we have to pick an all rounder whom should we pick most of the time? Pandya or Jadeja? Is Jadeja good enough to warrant a place over Pandya overseas also?
zen Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, Trichromatic said: There is no basis for that. Pandya is not a better batsman than Jaddu at any level, be it FC or tests. Difficult to say that he is technically superior either. Talent, technique, temperament, no factor to show that he could be better batsman than Jadeja. Jadeja made his debut in 2012. I am not sure if you rooted for him as an AR when he started. Pandya is currently similar to Jadeja when he started out After 7-8 years since his debut, it is convenient to suggest that he can be an AR, while ignoring that Pandya has just started out in tests and so far mainly played overseas. He averages 60+ with the bat in subcon
Straight Drive Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 Jadeja is more fit than Pandya. Also, Jadeja's performance in test is much better than Pandya in test, both with bat and ball. In ODI and T20i, Pandya is better.
zen Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 Playing as an AR esp. in alien conditions is a responsibility. It is one thing to score runs at home or when the team is doing well when expectations are low. Another thing to be judged based on your AR performances. Right now both can play as per situation but not put pressure on Jadeja, who plays as a specialist. Take the initiative to develop Pandya, who has excellent potential and put the responsibility on his shoulders
Trichromatic Posted August 23, 2020 Author Posted August 23, 2020 29 minutes ago, zen said: Jadeja made his debut in 2012. I am not sure if you rooted for him as an AR when he started. Pandya is currently similar to Jadeja when he started out After 7-8 years since his debut, it is convenient to suggest that he can be an AR, while ignoring that Pandya has just started out in tests and so far mainly played overseas. He averages 60+ with the bat in subcon It's not a suggestion, he is already an all rounder.
zen Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, Trichromatic said: It's not a suggestion, he is already an all rounder. I responded to this post on other thread. Why is it again quoted here? Did you consider him a test level AR in 2012? His batting avg till 2015 was even less than Pandya's, whom you currently have doubts on (I won't be surprised if you had doubts on Jadeja as an AR. It is easy to join a bandwagon) Records type batting analysis [change type] View career summary [change view] Start of match date less than or equal to 1 Jan 2016 Ordered by default (ascending) Return to query menuCleared query menu Career averages Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s unfiltered 2012-2020 49 71 18 1869 100* 35.26 2931 63.76 1 14 4 179 50 Profile filtered 2012-2015 16 24 2 473 68 21.50 773 61.19 0 1 2 67 6
Trichromatic Posted August 23, 2020 Author Posted August 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, zen said: Did you consider him a test level AR in 2012? His batting avg till 2015 was even less than Pandya's, whom you currently have doubts on (I won't be surprised if you had doubts on Jadeja as an AR. It is easy to join a bandwagon) Records type batting analysis [change type] View career summary [change view] Start of match date less than or equal to 1 Jan 2016 Ordered by default (ascending) Return to query menuCleared query menu Career averages Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s unfiltered 2012-2020 49 71 18 1869 100* 35.26 2931 63.76 1 14 4 179 50 Profile filtered 2012-2015 16 24 2 473 68 21.50 773 61.19 0 1 2 67 6 At least Jadeja was proven FC performer. It's ok to root for a player, but what's the reason? 1. Talent 2. Technique 3. Temperament 4. Proven FC performer Which aspects suggest that Pandya can do well in future? It's ok to root for a player, but there has to be reasons.
Trichromatic Posted August 23, 2020 Author Posted August 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, zen said: I responded to this post on other thread. Why is it again quoted here? Did you consider him a test level AR in 2012? His batting avg till 2015 was even less than Pandya's, whom you currently have doubts on (I won't be surprised if you had doubts on Jadeja as an AR. It is easy to join a bandwagon) Records type batting analysis [change type] View career summary [change view] Start of match date less than or equal to 1 Jan 2016 Ordered by default (ascending) Return to query menuCleared query menu Career averages Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s unfiltered 2012-2020 49 71 18 1869 100* 35.26 2931 63.76 1 14 4 179 50 Profile filtered 2012-2015 16 24 2 473 68 21.50 773 61.19 0 1 2 67 6 Moved posts from that thread to this one.
zen Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Trichromatic said: At least Jadeja was proven FC performer. It's ok to root for a player, but what's the reason? 1. Talent 2. Technique 3. Temperament 4. Proven FC performer Which aspects suggest that Pandya can do well in future? It's ok to root for a player, but there has to be reasons. Pandya has performed better than Jadeja in their respective initial years: Pandya Records type all-round analysis [change type] View career summary [change view] Ordered by default (ascending) Return to query menuCleared query menu Career averages Mat Runs HS Bat Av 100 Wkts BBI Bowl Av 5 Ct St Ave Diff overall 11 532 108 31.29 1 17 5/28 31.05 1 7 0 0.23 Jadeja Records type all-round analysis [change type] View career summary [change view] Start of match date less than or equal to 1 Jan 2015 Ordered by default (ascending) Return to query menuCleared query menu Career averages Span Mat Runs HS Bat Av 100 Wkts BBI Bowl Av 5 Ct St Ave Diff unfiltered 2012-2020 49 1869 100* 35.26 1 213 7/48 24.62 9 36 0 10.63 Profile filtered 2012-2014 12 364 68 21.41 0 45 6/138 30.37 2 11 0 -8.96 Pandya has a better batting avg, similar bowling avg, and a better avg difference. Despite that if you think Pandya does not have potential, it is difficult to believe that you would have rooted for Jadeja as a AR then. As I said, it is easy to join the bandwagon If you comparing a Jadeja after 7-8 years of international cricket (that too by focusing on his post 2016 #s) to someone who has just started out, it shows how good Pandya's potential is (and how effective he can be if the potential is nurtured optimally). You answered your own question /thread Edited August 23, 2020 by zen
Jimmy Cliff Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 Jadeja is one of our highest impact Test players ever. Pandya will have to play out of his skin to achieve half as much. Won't happen though as he will never be one of our Top 6 batsmen or one of our Top 4 bowlers in Tests. raki05, Gollum, Rightarmfast and 3 others 6
Gollum Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 (edited) Jaddu is a test ATG (that too topmost tier) in SC conditions...that is enough to rate him above some bits and pieces player. Pandya will barely make a third string Indian XI in SC conditions, overseas he can play occasionally depending on conditions. Though in white ball cricket, different matter, Jaddu is a fraud while Pandya has a high ceiling. Edited August 23, 2020 by Gollum Straight Drive 1
Straight Drive Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said: Jadeja is one of our highest impact Test players ever. Pandya will have to play out of his skin to achieve half as much. Won't happen though as he will never be one of our Top 6 batsmen or one of our Top 4 bowlers in Tests. Pandya has a huge challenge in terms of his fitness as we have seen in recent past. He is injured and missed lots of months. Unless he improves his fitness to take workload of pace bowler cum batsman, he will continue to find it tough to secure a spot in test team. Pandya is certainly not good enough to bat in test top 5. His bowling will suffer due to injuries as he will have to drop pace. If he doesn't drops pace his back may find the pace bowling unbearable yet again. So the upside is limited and may infact decline as far as test bowling is concerned. Jimmy Cliff 1
zen Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 (edited) Spinners do well in India - Jadeja averages 35 abroad (In SENA, it would be even higher): View overall figures [change view] Primary team India Home or away away (home of opposition) Type of bowler (by style) spin bowler Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 50 Ordered by bowling average (ascending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 11 of 11 First Previous Next Last Return to query menuCleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10 SP Gupte 1953-1959 15 25 4836 1854 65 7/162 7/164 28.52 2.30 74.4 6 0 R Ashwin 2011-2020 28 49 7031 3490 111 7/83 10/160 31.44 2.97 63.3 6 1 BS Chandrasekhar 1967-1979 26 42 6778 3266 100 6/38 12/104 32.66 2.89 67.7 8 1 BS Bedi 1967-1979 37 64 10973 4350 129 6/127 10/194 33.72 2.37 85.0 6 1 EAS Prasanna 1962-1978 27 45 7660 3182 94 8/76 11/140 33.85 2.49 81.4 5 1 RA Jadeja 2013-2020 16 29 4089 1939 56 6/138 7/236 34.62 2.84 73.0 2 0 A Kumble 1990-2008 69 121 20058 9645 269 8/141 12/279 35.85 2.88 74.5 10 1 Harbhajan Singh 1998-2015 48 87 11591 5913 152 7/120 10/153 38.90 3.06 76.2 7 1 MH Mankad 1946-1955 21 32 6919 2503 59 5/64 7/146 42.42 2.17 117.2 4 0 RJ Shastri 1981-1992 42 64 8282 3343 78 5/125 8/179 42.85 2.42 106.1 1 0 S Venkataraghavan 1967-1983 25 41 6602 2753 62 5/95 6/96 44.40 2.50 106.4 1 0 Both players have different USP and we should be happy to have options and potential like Pandya in pipeline! Edited August 23, 2020 by zen
Straight Drive Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 15 minutes ago, Gollum said: Jaddu is a test ATG (that too topmost tier) in SC conditions...that is enough to rate him above some bits and pieces player. Pandya will barely make a third string Indian XI in SC conditions, overseas he can play occasionally depending on conditions. Though in white ball cricket, different matter, Jaddu is a fraud while Pandya has a high ceiling. Jadeja might end up with 3000 test runs and 300 wickets in tests. No way Pandya will get there in test career.
zen Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Straight Drive said: Pandya is certainly not good enough to bat in test top 5. There is no need for him to bat in the top 5. He can bat at 6-7. In subcon, he averages 60+ .... And when he has got a relatively harder ball, he has been quite effective with the ball. In fact, on rank turners, India can even give its specialist pacers rest by having someone like Pandya open the bowling with a Yadav, who does well in India, and even play 3 spinners. Quote Jadeja might end up with 3000 test runs and 300 wickets in tests. No way Pandya will get there in test career. Pandya can have 5000 runs and 200 wkts (or such combination) Edited August 23, 2020 by zen
Jimmy Cliff Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 20 minutes ago, Straight Drive said: Pandya has a huge challenge in terms of his fitness as we have seen in recent past. He is injured and missed lots of months. Unless he improves his fitness to take workload of pace bowler cum batsman, he will continue to find it tough to secure a spot in test team. Pandya is certainly not good enough to bat in test top 5. His bowling will suffer due to injuries as he will have to drop pace. If he doesn't drops pace his back may find the pace bowling unbearable yet again. So the upside is limited and may infact decline as far as test bowling is concerned. Looks like he himself wants to focus on LOIs and thinks playing Test cricket will be a "challenge". LINK
Straight Drive Posted August 23, 2020 Posted August 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, zen said: There is no need for him to bat in the top 5. He can bat at 6-7. In subcon, he averages 60+ .... And when he has got a relatively harder ball, he has been quite effective with the ball. In fact, on rank turners, India can even give its specialist pacers rest by having someone like Pandya open the bowling with a Yadav, who does well in India, and even play 3 spinners. Pandya can have 5000 runs and 200 wkts (or such combination) First challenge is Fitness of Pandya poses a big challenge for him to survive in test format as pace bowling all rounder he is still struggling to be available or match fit. Second challenge is his skills as test match batsman and test match level bowler. He is not upto the mark. Due to his injuries and lack of skills at test level, he has played just 11 test matches . His test debut was in July 2017. 11 tests in 3.5 years is far too less. Being a pace all rounder he will have less shelf life and he just cannot afford to miss so many matches. He needs to improve his fitness as well as test skills if he has to play enough matches to score 3000 test runs and take 300 test wickets.
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