Bowling action: Brett Lee vs Sabir Khan

[rkt.india]

3 hours ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

On the left side is the action of an international cricketer after he had played top class cricket for 8-10 years, on the right side is someone who is still in his formative years.

 

And to be honest does not look like this youngster has a repeatable action. Should not judge him from a 10 second footage on Instagram.

No one is judging him, just comparing the action and It's his own post.

[Sandeep99]

What's his height?

[coffee_rules]

The bowler who terrorized every batsman with sling action

 

 

[coffee_rules]

Malinga’s first over in test cricket 

 

 

[maniac]

35 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

The bowler who terrorized every batsman with sling action

 

 

No mention of facing that bowling with just a cap

[coffee_rules]

8 minutes ago, maniac said:

No mention of facing that bowling with just a cap

Yes, but in 1977-78 most batsmen didn’t. In 1975-76, Bedi forfeited a match because WI pace injured half of our batsmen

[Suhaan]

1 hour ago, MultiB48 said:

 

 

 

The key lies in triggering hip shoulder separation by using your arm as leverage, this is what shoaib is doing in the left pic ,where you point or place your arm depends on your action.

 

 

 

 

 

Bowlers like Bond ,Flintoff ,Gabreil create hip shoulder separation by pulling their bowling arm upwards.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Donald used to fold and cock his elbow to create the leverage to create hip shoulder ,though this technique is not as effective but is easier on the body.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bowlers like Flintoff ,Ntini have front on action,actions are generally predefined by lower body position and it is easy for bowlers having front on action(lower front on)to have make shoulder hip separation ,sometimes semi side on bowlers make non bowling arm adjustments to meet the requirement

Edited September 10, 2020 by Suhaan

[rkt.india]

27 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Bowlers like Flintoff ,Ntini have front on action,actions are generally predefined by lower body position and it is easy for bowlers having front on action(lower front on)to have make shoulder hip separation ,sometimes semi side on bowlers make non bowling arm adjustments to meet the requirement

Absolutely, most knee bowlers struggle with hip shoulder separation. Most important thing to have hip shoulder separation is pre-turn or rotation of backfoot after landing. Hip dominant bowlers don't need to rotate their backfoot as it already straight and hip shoulder separation has nothing to do with slinging action. 

 

This is what hip shoulder separation is where backfoot points forward and bowling shoulder points backwards. This isn't possible without pre-turn(rotation of backfoot) in knee dominant bowlers.

 

 

Edited September 10, 2020 by rkt.india

[rkt.india]

4 hours ago, Sandeep99 said:

What's his height?

Probably around 6'1

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

 

 

 

The key lies in triggering hip shoulder separation by using your arm as leverage, this is what shoaib is doing in the left pic ,where you point or place your arm depends on your action.

 

 

 

 

 

Bowlers like Bond ,Flintoff ,Gabreil create hip shoulder separation by pulling their bowling arm upwards.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Donald used to fold and cock his elbow to create the leverage to create hip shoulder ,though this technique is not as effective but is easier on the body.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What Shoaib is doing in that pic isn't hip shoulder separation.  Knee dominants or side on bowlers mostly fail to separate hips and shoulders as they struggle to rotate their backfoot before FFC. This is hip shoulder separation.

[Suhaan]

13 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

Hip shoulder separation means pushing your bowling shoulder away from the corresponding hip,you do that by leveraging your arms.

this is not hip shoulder separation ,here the shoulder has already been released.

The second pic which you quoted ,is actually while the bowler is loading,hip shoulder separation comes into play when the action is locked and bowler is about to release

[cricketfan28]

I like to say something here but this is way too intellectual for me.

[Suhaan]

9 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

 

 

 

This is closest to hip shoulder separation ,but not every one goes to this extent and since we arent machines to get there you have to build up momentum in your arm to move the shoulder ,thats what those pics were.

 

This pic doesn't suggest hip shoulder separation as hip shoulder separation comes into while bowler is about to release,because when bowler(as in case of Thompson)befor landing his front foot he has to quickly rotate his back leg pointing towards batsman and doing so bowlers make upper body adjustments to attain hip shoulder separation ,as i said above pic is when he is loading his action,this is not the frame to judge proper hip shoulder separation

Edited September 10, 2020 by Suhaan

[rkt.india]

24 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

 

 

 

This is closest to hip shoulder separation ,but not every one goes to this extent and since we arent machines to get there you have to build up momentum in your arm to move the shoulder ,thats what those pics were.

 

How can it be hip shoulder separation when backfoot is pointing towards midwicket. Thommo is a knee dominant bowler. This position is called long arm pull. Knee dominant bowlers with long arm pull struggle to separate hip and shoulder because their backfoot land on the heel and they stay on back foot for longer duration to generate force so they can't rotate their backfoot and fail to separate hip and shoulder.  Brett Lee does it better because he is midway bowler, knee dominant but semi-side on and doesn't land on heel. His BFC time is shorter.  Most of the hip dominant bowlers can do hip shoulder separation more effectively. Most of the slingers don't have hip shoulder separation. 

 

Hip shoulder separation is more important for front on or hip dominant bowlers. It helps them perform arm delay and make use of stretch reflex.

 

Here's another example of hip shoulder separation. See the backfoot is pointing towards batsman. Also hip shoulder separation has nothing to do with someone being a slinger or not.

 

 

Edited September 10, 2020 by rkt.india

[Suhaan]

50 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

Rotating the back foot releases the hip and the shoulder comes through ,it doesnt create the separation.Hip shoulder separation means shoulder points away from the torso,arm pull means delaying the release of the arm after the shoulder is released.

Bro the term Hip shoulder separation comes only in the picture when bowler has locked his action as just about to release the ball, that's a simple way to put it,not at the time you approach crease , you may call it arm pull or loading an action

Edited September 10, 2020 by Suhaan

[rkt.india]

9 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

Rotating the back foot releases the hip and the shoulder comes through ,it doesnt create the separation.Hip shoulder separation means shoulder points away from the torso,arm pull means delaying the release of the arm after the shoulder is released.

Hip shoulder separation is separating the bowling hip and bowling shoulder.  It's a term taken from baseball. Any way slingers struggle to separate hip and shoulder. 

 

https://www.stack.com/a/hip-and-shoulder-separation-the-concept-pitchers-need-to-understand

 

Hip shoulder separation is rotating the lower body without rotating upper body. When hip and shoulder are pointing in opposite direction.

 

Another article

 

https://www.howtobowlfast.com/separation

Edited September 11, 2020 by rkt.india

[express bowling]

On 9/9/2020 at 9:14 PM, rkt.india said:

But there is something else that differentiates their bowling style. These technical issues aside.

 

Brett Lee's run up was was a thing of art. And it was as if his run-up and bowling action were 2 different things although he lost no momentum in the process. It was just a visual thing. 

 

Sabir Khan's run up is a bit less athletic looking than Lee and he has a more visually seamless run-up and bowling action.

Edited September 11, 2020 by express bowling

[maniac]

On 9/9/2020 at 1:47 PM, rkt.india said:

McGrath wasn't a great athlete. Jimmy Anderson is. Steyn was average too.

Have you seen some of McGrath’s catches on the boundary? Not being athletic is someone like Shami when he runs after the ball in the outfield. Mcgrath has pulled some stunning athletic catches on the outfield.

 

Steyn was average may be compared to athleticism of Lee but still a tremendous athlete.

 

Again I don’t know Sabbir’s background or have seen his athleticism enough based on the videos you posted but looking at his physique doesn’t look like it. Then again Dravid, Laxman had lean physiques and athletic  while the more stocky Sachin, MSD were way superior athletes to them.

Edited September 11, 2020 by maniac

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

Brett Lee's run up was was a thing of art. And it was as if his run-up and bowling action were 2 different things although he lost no momentum in the process. It was just a visual thing. 

 

Sabbir Khan run up is a bit less athletic looking than Lee and he has a more visually seamless run-up and bowling action.

Agree, Best action to watch after Dennis Lillee

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

Brett Lee's run up was was a thing of art. And it was as if his run-up and bowling action were 2 different things although he lost no momentum in the process. It was just a visual thing. 

 

Sabbir Khan run up is a bit less athletic looking than Lee and he has a more visually seamless run-up and bowling action.

Those things visually easy to identify but there is a basic different that changes their style completely which Sabir probably didn't get which is Brett Lee being a slinger. Sabir not.