coffee_rules Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, GeeGaw said: Sure looks that way, but other than that not much to complain about with his captaincy so far this year. Of course the match where he left with the shoulder injury and Dhawan took over with no drop off may prove captaincy is overrated. Do you see Pant directing fielders to move around? He acts as a de facto captain and asserts more than Shreyas Iyer. Iyer seems to be only meant for post-match prez and PCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajju Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Pant is main advisor iyer is dummy captain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 5 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: u do remeber that KKR coach john buchanan wanted try that in season 2 and it let to a chaos in camp ultimately leading to a disaster season I dont know what Buchanan wanted a decade back and what type of tools he had to pull it off. with Analytics and AI you pretty much know the tendency of all the bats and you can set field and bowl according to that. Baseball is doing that and it really chokes the hitters. I can see England starting that soon followed by Australia. They may not replace a captain but field placement will be generated by Analytics and computer data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniac Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, Khota said: I dont know what Buchanan wanted a decade back and what type of tools he had to pull it off. with Analytics and AI you pretty much know the tendency of all the bats and you can set field and bowl according to that. Baseball is doing that and it really chokes the hitters. I can see England starting that soon followed by Australia. They may not replace a captain but field placement will be generated by Analytics and computer data. it’s easier said than done in cricket. Baseball hitting zones are 1 dimensional. Also there is only line but no concept of Length. It is relatively easier for a pitcher to execute his variations or bowl according to a field than a bowler. Same goes for batting because baseball scoring doesn’t give a scope for 360 degrees like batting in cricket does, so it is easier for a batsmen to adapt as well. However I do agree that analytics will play a huge part if not already when it comes to planning for a batsmen, setting fields to them or putting the right fielder in the right place etc. I will he surprised if other countries especially the more technologically advanced ones aren’t already using this. Shame if India that’s a market leader in the area of providing qualified data analytics resources to the world doesn’t have any such thing in place already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 8 minutes ago, maniac said: it’s easier said than done in cricket. Baseball hitting zones are 1 dimensional. Also there is only line but no concept of Length. It is relatively easier for a pitcher to execute his variations or bowl according to a field than a bowler. Same goes for batting because baseball scoring doesn’t give a scope for 360 degrees like batting in cricket does, so it is easier for a batsmen to adapt as well. However I do agree that analytics will play a huge part if not already when it comes to planning for a batsmen, setting fields to them or putting the right fielder in the right place etc. I will he surprised if other countries especially the more technologically advanced ones aren’t already using this. Shame if India that’s a market leader in the area of providing qualified data analytics resources to the world doesn’t have any such thing in place already. It is still the stupid dumb captain making decisions and captain on the field in real time is the least qualified to do so. Though baseball does not have 360 degrees like cricket the speed of the game in baseball is much faster. Right from pitching to throws from outfield. cricket can never match that. And baseball aerodynamics are lot more complex that that of cricket ball. I am digressing but BCCI needs to start doing that right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ankit_sharma03 Posted October 21, 2020 Author Share Posted October 21, 2020 45 minutes ago, Khota said: I dont know what Buchanan wanted a decade back and what type of tools he had to pull it off. with Analytics and AI you pretty much know the tendency of all the bats and you can set field and bowl according to that. Baseball is doing that and it really chokes the hitters. I can see England starting that soon followed by Australia. They may not replace a captain but field placement will be generated by Analytics and computer data. he wanted to try 4 captains for the season among which he had captains like Mccullum n ganguly,they ended up with mccullum only but it lead a chaos on in camp Captain always comes prep with field placement acc to analytics ...this has been happening for years. Eng or australia no team will ever have multiple captains in single format But dhoni n rohit have mentioned once ur on ground its also instinct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 6 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: he wanted to try 4 captains for the season among which he had captains like Mccullum n ganguly,they ended up with mccullum only but it lead a chaos on in camp Captain always comes prep with field placement acc to analytics ...this has been happening for years. Eng or australia no team will ever have multiple captains in single format But dhoni n rohit have mentioned once ur on ground its also instinct I don't believe in instincts. you need to look at the weakness and exploit. A fatigued captain on the field will screw up. Let the people in the booth decide based on inputs received and their observation. IPL tells us that there is nothing special about Kohli. Nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasgulla Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 14 hours ago, Khota said: And barely did anything with the bat either. he plays down the order and he was good last match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ankit_sharma03 Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Khota said: I don't believe in instincts. you need to look at the weakness and exploit. A fatigued captain on the field will screw up. Let the people in the booth decide based on inputs received and their observation. IPL tells us that there is nothing special about Kohli. Nothing. IPL 2 successful captain Rohit n Dhoni tells use that its just not about matchups but instincts and even ganguly If their is a big downfall to kohli that he doesnt trust instinct Data cannote help beyond a point,data have been avl from decades now yet bowlers take wkts and batsman score runs . Data is even avl top fans and every cricketer is aware of their weakness some like raina scum under it and some like steve waugh over come it. Also a captain never alone sets the field, During Dhoni young days Zak n Sachin use to help him and during kohli days Dhoni helped him. Seniors always help and when ur bowler becomes experienced enough he sets his own field. Warne n mcgrath use to set their own field Edited October 22, 2020 by Ankit_sharma03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 2 hours ago, Rasgulla said: he plays down the order and he was good last match Is it fair to deduce he is not consistent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 2 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: IPL 2 successful captain Rohit n Dhoni tells use that its just not about matchups but instincts and even ganguly If their is a big downfall to kohli that he doesnt trust instinct Data cannote help beyond a point,data have been avl from decades now yet bowlers take wkts and batsman score runs . Data is even avl top fans and every cricketer is aware of their weakness some like raina scum under it and some like steve waugh over come it. Also a captain never alone sets the field, During Dhoni young days Zak n Sachin use to help him and during kohli days Dhoni helped him. Seniors always help and when ur bowler becomes experienced enough he sets his own field. Warne n mcgrath use to set their own field Decisions at that level should be based on algorithms and not instincts. How many time Dhoni's instincts have been wrong? I am prety sure he will never discuss that but always talk when he is right. And how does he know his instinct is right? What inputs does he have to make those decisions. In game situation there is so much fatigue one is bound to make poor decisions. Decisions should come from cooler heads on the sidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ankit_sharma03 Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 51 minutes ago, Khota said: Decisions at that level should be based on algorithms and not instincts. How many time Dhoni's instincts have been wrong? I am prety sure he will never discuss that but always talk when he is right. And how does he know his instinct is right? What inputs does he have to make those decisions. In game situation there is so much fatigue one is bound to make poor decisions. Decisions should come from cooler heads on the sidelines. and algorithms havent gone wrong ? No algorithm cud have pointed out that Pakistan will beat india in 2017 CT but they did coz anything can happen on a given day. Cricket is game that depends on pitch, weather and sometimes luck on a day Instinct follows match situation but Data is data that cannot analyze a batsman mindset. You have to keep a balance in both, teams around the world have sucked when they entered with just Plan A based on data, yet things go wrong and you have to switch plan acc to situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 (edited) That match against Punjab, Iyer exhibited some of the most braindead captaincy humanly possible. Edited October 22, 2020 by Gollum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamant Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 I dont care about ipl trophies,as much as i have seen Rohit,he is a very lousy captain.We should promote Jasprit Bumrah as the next captain,time for india to finally have a bowler as odi captain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ankit_sharma03 Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 34 minutes ago, Adamant said: I dont care about ipl trophies,as much as i have seen Rohit,he is a very lousy captain.We should promote Jasprit Bumrah as the next captain,time for india to finally have a bowler as odi captain. Fas bowlers can remain injured for long specially who play 3 format. You dont want a scenario where bumrah cuts his pace to avoid injuries. So absolute no. Rohit if age allows shud be the next LOI captain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 5 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: and algorithms havent gone wrong ? No algorithm cud have pointed out that Pakistan will beat india in 2017 CT but they did coz anything can happen on a given day. Cricket is game that depends on pitch, weather and sometimes luck on a day Instinct follows match situation but Data is data that cannot analyze a batsman mindset. You have to keep a balance in both, teams around the world have sucked when they entered with just Plan A based on data, yet things go wrong and you have to switch plan acc to situation Incorrect assesment. Every game has odds attached to it. India vs Pakistan in CT is a perfect game for me to point out what I am saying. If India plays Pakistan and 10 games are played, statistically speaking India should win 8 or 9 and pakistan 1 or maybe 2. It was one of those days when Pakistan one. That is why Bball has best of seven series to get the odds out of the piicture. Anyone can have bad day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamant Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 4 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: Fas bowlers can remain injured for long specially who play 3 format. You dont want a scenario where bumrah cuts his pace to avoid injuries. So absolute no. Rohit if age allows shud be the next LOI captain. Well age is not on rohits side, he will be 36 in 2023 so i dont think he should be the next captain Secondly, bumrah can get injured but how does that depend on captaincy. We can have a standby whenver he is injured but the guy is sharp and also he is the only player who has a fixed position in odi team apart from sharma/kohli. Wasim, waqar, pollock, hadlee, dev, botham, imran, holder are some examples so its not like this will be the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ankit_sharma03 Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Adamant said: Well age is not on rohits side, he will be 36 in 2023 so i dont think he should be the next captain Secondly, bumrah can get injured but how does that depend on captaincy. We can have a standby whenver he is injured but the guy is sharp and also he is the only player who has a fixed position in odi team apart from sharma/kohli. coz when a fast bowler goes out it cud be for months, u cant be without a captain for months 1 hour ago, Adamant said: Wasim, waqar, pollock, hadlee, dev, botham, imran, holder are some examples so its not like this will be the first time. they didnt have 3rd format and IPL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamant Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: coz when a fast bowler goes out it cud be for months, u cant be without a captain for months they didnt have 3rd format and IPL So you are basically saying that no bowler should ever be a captain just because there is fear of injury. I think it's a pretty obtuse stand Also really unfair to the bowlers. Actually bringing in Bumrah as captain will be a smart move as it will help in creating a bowling culture in india. We have always been unfair to our fast bowlers and it needs to end. We need a fast bowling figurehead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ankit_sharma03 Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 22 minutes ago, Adamant said: So you are basically saying that no bowler should ever be a captain just because there is fear of injury. I think it's a pretty obtuse stand Also really unfair to the bowlers. Do u see any fast bowler as captain these days apart from mashrafe thats your answer. Try to think of more of fast bowling captain in recent yrs....u wnt be able to think much Jason holder who bascily is a trundler and is an all rounder who doesnt play all formats. Wasim n waqar also became captain when they werent cranking at that pace they use to 22 minutes ago, Adamant said: Actually bringing in Bumrah as captain will be a smart move as it will help in creating a bowling culture in india. We have always been unfair to our fast bowlers and it needs to end. We need a fast bowling figurehead. Dick move as he ll cut down his pace. He can be a figure head anyways, zak didnt need to be captain to be a figurehead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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