Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners in IPL 2020

[rkt.india]

3 hours ago, Vilander said:

 

 

 

Neuro-typing characterization created by one of the best coaches, Christian Thibaudeauh, has taken individual preparation and training to. Completely different levels.   When we grow up we have three neurotransmitter systems developing in our brain. These three systems define our personality traits and impacts all aspects of human performance . Dopaminergic system, serotoninergic system, cholinergic system. Based on Cloninger temperament and character inventory, neurotyping  categories have been created According to neurotransmitter systems.

 

And there is a strong relation between neurotype and muscle fiber domination. There are 3 types of neurotype, 1, 2 and 3. Neurotype 1 has two subtypes 1a and 1b. Neurotype 2 also has two subtypes 2a and 2b. Mostly neurotype 1 has high volume of fast twitch fibers.  Neurotype 1a are mostly knee dominant athletes, 1b are hip dominants. 2a are hip dominants and 2b are knee dominants. These categories are based on which neurotransmitter dominates them. Neurotype 2 has a mix of fast and slow fibers. 3 mostly have slow twitch. Most 90 mph fast bowlers are neurotype 1.

Edited October 10, 2020 by rkt.india

[Rightarmfast]

9 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Huh !

 

That happens all the time.  

 

But, after full professional  training to be a quick bowler and the body developing to be a fast bowler ... not everyone will be able to bowl at 90 mph +. No amount of training and body development will be able to turn every prospective teenage pacer training professionally to be a 90 mph bowler.

 

You have to be born with the ability to bowl at 90 mph ( you will achieve it after training of course )

 

That is what is meant by a fast bowler is born. It does not mean that proper training is not needed.

 

 

 

 

 

That is as incorrect as it can get! Cheers

[Rightarmfast]

9 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

I  do like this video.

 

Because ....

 

1)   He talks about being a medium pacer as a teenager. Teenagers (a)  Before their bodies are fully developed  (b)  Before their run-up and action are optimized for pace and bounce, that is they are developing as bowlers, are obviously bowling at lesser pace than what they would do as developed pacers in their mid-20s.

 

2)  He says that he had a natural inswing and his coach used to tell him that he would lose his inswing if he tried to bowl quicker. ( That was a popular and wrong notion till the 1990s ) That is his coach tried to model him as a medium pacer, thus not utilizing his ability as a fast bowler.

 

3)  He says that there is no other such example of a medium pacer turning into a fast bowler. " Jab koi fast bowler ata hai to pata chalta hai ".

Any teenager who is athletic and is training well, motivated to bowl fast will bowl quick. The only way a teenager whos motivated and not able to bowl quick could be a severe lack of height. 

Fast twitch muscles can be trained. Fast bowling is not something which is genetic. 

Period

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

That is as incorrect as it can get! Cheers

 

So are you are saying that almost every person, with proper training, can bowl 90 mph + for a few years ? 

[rkt.india]

31 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Any teenager who is athletic and is training well, motivated to bowl fast will bowl quick. The only way a teenager whos motivated and not able to bowl quick could be a severe lack of height. 

Fast twitch muscles can be trained. Fast bowling is not something which is genetic. 

Period

You are born with fast twitch fibers. Training does help but it won't turn an ambassador into a Ferrari because all individuals are different.  Their bodies are different and they respond and work differently. Their brains also work differently for different individuals. This is the reason we now have individualized training. Not two athletes are trained same way.

 

Yes fast twitch fibers can be trained but how will you train them if you don't have them in an amount to be activated over slow muscle fibers. You have to be born with those muscle fibers. This is the reason people say fast bowlers are born. You can't train a sloth to run like a cheetah. Genuine quicks are like cheetahs.

Edited October 10, 2020 by rkt.india

[express bowling]

2 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Any teenager who is athletic and is training well, motivated to bowl fast will bowl quick. The only way a teenager whos motivated and not able to bowl quick could be a severe lack of height. 

Fast twitch muscles can be trained. Fast bowling is not something which is genetic. 

Period

 

 

1.  Fast twitch muscle fibres can be trained but many scientists say that their number cannot be increased.

 

2. But, with proper training, the number of myofibrils within the fast twitch muscle fibres can be increased.  Which is why almost every pacer, with proper training, is able to increase his speed.

 

3. But the person with a high number of fast twitch muscle fibres in the relevant muscles ... when he trains and increases the myofibrils ... He will obviously reach a higher speed, everything else remaining constant. I thing these are the pacers who reach 140 k to 150 k speeds regularly.

 

 

[express bowling]

 

1 hour ago, Rightarmfast said:

Any teenager who is athletic and is training well, motivated to bowl fast will bowl quick. The only way a teenager whos motivated and not able to bowl quick could be a severe lack of height. 

Fast twitch muscles can be trained. Fast bowling is not something which is genetic. 

Period

 

 

This is what Steffan Jones, a modern strength and conditioning coach, has to say. He is or has been the fast bowling development coach for the Rajasthan Royals too. --------

 

Not talking about old cricketers here.

 

"  You are born to bowl fast: a genuine pace (90+ mph) is in your DNA with the gene ACNT3 RR, giving you the pace floor. Some bowlers start at a higher level than others and will clearly have the ability to go higher. The higher the floor, the faster you can bowl. So, in fact, you are born to bowl fast.

 

Genuine speedsters are born, but a medium fast bowler can become fast medium with smart work off the field, says @SteffanJones105.CLICK TO TWEET

 

 

However, everyone can bowl faster with the right coach intervention and a growth mindset that determines the pace ceiling. Every bowler can push that ceiling higher! Genuine speedsters are born, but a medium fast bowler can become fast medium with smart work off the field.

 

How can you push that ceiling up? The fact of the matter is this: Fundamentally, a bowler can only increase their pace ceiling by improving their biomotor qualities. Technique alone will not work. You have to overload technique to provide stimulus for adaptation and physical and technical progression.

 

“The number of fibers in a muscle is what’s genetically determined, it is established at the moment of conception by the respective genomes received from both parents.” –Henk Kraaijenhof¹

 

You cannot alter the number of fast twitch fibers through environmental factors like training, but what you can do is increase the number of myofibrils within each individual fiber through the correct training. This is what increases bowling velocity,  "

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/simplifaster.com/articles/cricket-sport-science-strength-coaches/

Edited October 10, 2020 by express bowling

[express bowling]

This is what Dennis Lillee says .....

 

He is an old cricketer but is a modern day bowling coach. He has coached / worked with / spotted many a top modern fast bowler including Brett Lee.

 

Dennis Lillee reckons Brett Lee is a perfect specimen for fast bowling. Lee is obviously athletic and charismatic but these are not the attributes that impressed Lillee when he spotted him as a teenager in Sydney. Bowling speed comes from the trunk muscles and Lee had the stomach for it.
"You are born to bowl fast," says Lillee, 53. As a great fast bowler and celebrated coach he is a well-qualified judge.

 

The key ingredient is twitch fibres in the abdominal and oblique muscles. Nature makes these fibres fast or slow, and they determine how fast the muscles move, but they can be quickened with speed work. "What we have found through all our research is that contraction through the torso is what gives you speed," he says. "You could be built like Arnie Schwarzenegger but it doesn't mean you will bowl fast. What you need is strong flexible trunk muscles. If you've got slow twitch muscles and a strong trunk you are never going to bowl fast."

 

 

Edited October 10, 2020 by express bowling

[express bowling]

We will probably see Nagarkoti, Mavi and Shami in the afternoon game and Saini in the evening.

 

Lots of Indian fast bowlers likely to play today.

[Straight Drive]

Thompson was the one born to bowl fast if at all there is a term like "Born to bowl fast". He was an athelete and had a strong body.

 

His bowling partner Dennis Lillee upped his pace due to hard work. But it was after some fractures that Lillee improved on other skills and variety in bowling. 

 

Thompson was the most brutal bowler I saw, however Lillee was more skillful with more variations. 

 

Andy Roberts was another who managed to upgrade his pace as well. 

 

There have been cases in past which show pace can be increased.

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

This is what Dennis Lillee says .....

 

He is an old cricketer but is a modern day bowling coach. He has coached / worked with / spotted many a top modern fast bowler including Brett Lee.

 

Dennis Lillee reckons Brett Lee is a perfect specimen for fast bowling. Lee is obviously athletic and charismatic but these are not the attributes that impressed Lillee when he spotted him as a teenager in Sydney. Bowling speed comes from the trunk muscles and Lee had the stomach for it.
"You are born to bowl fast," says Lillee, 53. As a great fast bowler and celebrated coach he is a well-qualified judge.

 

The key ingredient is twitch fibres in the abdominal and oblique muscles. Nature makes these fibres fast or slow, and they determine how fast the muscles move, but they can be quickened with speed work. "What we have found through all our research is that contraction through the torso is what gives you speed," he says. "You could be built like Arnie Schwarzenegger but it doesn't mean you will bowl fast. What you need is strong flexible trunk muscles. If you've got slow twitch muscles and a strong trunk you are never going to bowl fast."

 

 

What Lillie is talking about here is called stretch shortening cycle (SSC). It means eccentric and concentric movement of the relevant muscles. Hip dominant bowlers are able to do it more efficiently. Knee dominants don't as they struggle to do pre-turn. 

 

A bowler who can go from eccentric to concentric phase quickly will bowl quicker than who doesn't. It's mostly true for hip dominants and they are more explosive fast bowlers. Knee dominants are more static and need more power.

Edited October 10, 2020 by rkt.india

[rkt.india]

16 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

Thompson was the one born to bowl fast if at all there is a term like "Born to bowl fast". He was an athelete and had a strong body.

 

His bowling partner Dennis Lillee upped his pace due to hard work. But it was after some fractures that Lillee improved on other skills and variety in bowling. 

 

Thompson was the most brutal bowler I saw, however Lillee was more skillful with more variations. 

 

Andy Roberts was another who managed to upgrade his pace as well. 

 

There have been cases in past which show pace can be increased.

 dennis lillee debuted at 22 for Australia in 1971 and he was fast at that time, so, how can we say he upped his pace while he was already fast at the age of 22. His spell of 8/29 against world XI in 1971 is one of the fastest spell of bowling.

[express bowling]

15 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

Thompson was the one born to bowl fast if at all there is a term like "Born to bowl fast". He was an athelete and had a strong body.

 

His bowling partner Dennis Lillee upped his pace due to hard work. But it was after some fractures that Lillee improved on other skills and variety in bowling. 

 

Thompson was the most brutal bowler I saw, however Lillee was more skillful with more variations. 

 

Andy Roberts was another who managed to upgrade his pace as well. 

 

There have been cases in past which show pace can be increased.

 

 

Pace can definitely be increased with proper training and hard work. Almost every international pacer does it. 

 

Thing is only a few pacers can increase it to a consistent 140 k to 150 k level or beyond ... not everyone can.

[Straight Drive]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Pace can definitely be increased with proper training and hard work. Almost every international pacer does it. 

 

Thing is only a few pacers can increase it to a consistent 140 k to 150 k level or beyond ... not everyone can.

The extreme upgrades are a rarity. In last 50 years I don't recall any pacer who has done an extreme upgrade. So I agree with you about that.

[express bowling]

1 minute ago, Straight Drive said:

The extreme upgrades are a rarity. In last 50 years I don't recall any pacer who has done an extreme upgrade. So I agree with you about that.

 

Exactly !

[Rightarmfast]

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

 

This is what Steffan Jones, a modern strength and conditioning coach, has to say. He is or has been the fast bowling development coach for the Rajasthan Royals too. --------

 

Not talking about old cricketers here.

 

"  You are born to bowl fast: a genuine pace (90+ mph) is in your DNA with the gene ACNT3 RR, giving you the pace floor. Some bowlers start at a higher level than others and will clearly have the ability to go higher. The higher the floor, the faster you can bowl. So, in fact, you are born to bowl fast.

 

Genuine speedsters are born, but a medium fast bowler can become fast medium with smart work off the field, says @SteffanJones105.CLICK TO TWEET

 

 

However, everyone can bowl faster with the right coach intervention and a growth mindset that determines the pace ceiling. Every bowler can push that ceiling higher! Genuine speedsters are born, but a medium fast bowler can become fast medium with smart work off the field.

 

How can you push that ceiling up? The fact of the matter is this: Fundamentally, a bowler can only increase their pace ceiling by improving their biomotor qualities. Technique alone will not work. You have to overload technique to provide stimulus for adaptation and physical and technical progression.

 

“The number of fibers in a muscle is what’s genetically determined, it is established at the moment of conception by the respective genomes received from both parents.” –Henk Kraaijenhof¹

 

You cannot alter the number of fast twitch fibers through environmental factors like training, but what you can do is increase the number of myofibrils within each individual fiber through the correct training. This is what increases bowling velocity,  "

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/simplifaster.com/articles/cricket-sport-science-strength-coaches/

Btw, Steffan Jones just runs an academy and the paper from linkedin you have posted is just promoting his academy. I, for one never heard of Jones as a definitive voice in the fast bowling arena. 

So, if you were to check the rest of the article ( and even in your post ), it is mentioned anyone can raise the ceiling. Which is a fact. If theres a research done to say 90mph is a magic no and people cant raise their ceiling to 90mph, i would love to see that!

The fact is, most of the professionals dont raise their ceiling. Especially Indians of the past. I have been a professional athlete, although not a cricketer and I know of real cases of increase in speed. I am not talking about bowling, though. I speak with that knowledge. I dont know who's Steffan Jones, but my teacher was an Olympian and represented India. And his name is Amaldas. Anybody can google. In my field of sport, my speed was way above normal. But I have personally seen people training, who never looked like they could ever be faster, and they have surprised people. 

To each his own, though!

[rkt.india]

52 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Btw, Steffan Jones just runs an academy and the paper from linkedin you have posted is just promoting his academy. I, for one never heard of Jones as a definitive voice in the fast bowling arena. 

So, if you were to check the rest of the article ( and even in your post ), it is mentioned anyone can raise the ceiling. Which is a fact. If theres a research done to say 90mph is a magic no and people cant raise their ceiling to 90mph, i would love to see that!

The fact is, most of the professionals dont raise their ceiling. Especially Indians of the past. I have been a professional athlete, although not a cricketer and I know of real cases of increase in speed. I am not talking about bowling, though. I speak with that knowledge. I dont know who's Steffan Jones, but my teacher was an Olympian and represented India. And his name is Amaldas. Anybody can google. In my field of sport, my speed was way above normal. But I have personally seen people training, who never looked like they could ever be faster, and they have surprised people. 

To each his own, though!

Steffen Jones is a maverick and has transformed fast bowling coaching to a new level.

[Mosher]

1 hour ago, Rightarmfast said:

Btw, Steffan Jones just runs an academy and the paper from linkedin you have posted is just promoting his academy. I, for one never heard of Jones as a definitive voice in the fast bowling arena. 

So, if you were to check the rest of the article ( and even in your post ), it is mentioned anyone can raise the ceiling. Which is a fact. If theres a research done to say 90mph is a magic no and people cant raise their ceiling to 90mph, i would love to see that!

The fact is, most of the professionals dont raise their ceiling. Especially Indians of the past. I have been a professional athlete, although not a cricketer and I know of real cases of increase in speed. I am not talking about bowling, though. I speak with that knowledge. I dont know who's Steffan Jones, but my teacher was an Olympian and represented India. And his name is Amaldas. Anybody can google. In my field of sport, my speed was way above normal. But I have personally seen people training, who never looked like they could ever be faster, and they have surprised people. 

To each his own, though!

Aaron rates Jones highly and he went and trained with Steffan Jones in England. I think Ishant too trained with Steffan.

 

 

Aaron talking about Steffan - 

 

Aaron has managed to stay injury-free in the last couple of years and he attributes a large part of maintaining his fitness levels to Steffan Jones, the Royals' fast bowling development coach. Jones, who has trained the likes of Stuart Broad, Shaun Tait and Dan Christian during the 2017 Big Bash League, has been part of the Royals set up since 2018. Aaron was also part of a preparatory camp hosted by the Royals under Jones earlier this year, and he explained what makes Jones stand out.

"I really enjoyed working with Steffan last year and then consequently after the IPL I went and spent some more time with him in England. He's a fast bowling coach who really bridges the gap between fast bowling and strength and conditioning, which is rare. But Steffan brings those aspects together really well. It's really important for a fast bowling coach to have a really good knowledge of strength and conditioning. He's like a catalyst which joins both. I had a decent knowledge of my body and what I needed to do. But meeting Steffan has given me a different sight to it and how I can always be powerful throughout a long season. It's just more of a different side of training rather than conventional training or gym work.

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/29902687/ipl-2020-rajasthan-royals-varun-aaron-says-only-reason-plays-game-play-india

Edited October 10, 2020 by Mosher

[speedheat]

Prasidh is playing today. Hope he does well.

[Mosher]

DK "It is imortant to bring a bowler like Prasidh into the playing XI, and at the same time it gives Shivam Mavi time to rest a couple of niggles."