Which batsmen would you select in all-time Asian XI facing express pace?

[Harsh Thakor]

 

 

This is my selection of batsmen for an all-time Asian  XI  against express pace

 

SunilGavaskar

Majid Khan

Gundappa Vishwanath

Inzamam Ul Haq

Sachin Tendulkar

Mohinder Amarnath

Wasim Raja

 

 

 

Gavaskar's record facing the quickest without a helmet speaks  for itself.Defensive but could also be explosive  like in Delhi v West Indies in 1983-84.Majid made big scores facing Lille,Roberts and Willis at their fastest and was amongst the best attacking players of pace bowling in the world.Vishwanath overshadowed even Gavaskar on fast pitches like v West Indies at Madras in 1974-75 and1978-79 orin 1975 World cup game at Edgbaston in1979.Inzamam tackled pace or the bouncing ball with more surety than even Lara andTendulkar.Shoiab Akhtar felt Inzy payed him better than any batsman.Tendulkar was technically so correct that tinspite of lack of height he remained ubdeterred facing quickies.He tackled Alan Donald and DaleSteyn better than anybody which speaks for itself.In 1982-83in Pakistan and West Indies Amarnath payed express pace better than any batsmen ,averaging around 70 and scoring 4 centuries  and almost 12200 run sin 11 tests.Statisticaly Wasim Raja has the bets record against the great West Indies attack averaging around 57.In 197 in West Indies he topped the batting averages.

 

Edited November 2, 2020 by Harsh Thakor

[Ankit_sharma03]

Among the ones i have seen virat kohli

[express bowling]

How does Kohli miss the list  !!

 

Averages 55.4 in tests IN Australia with 6 centuries from just 12 tests. Against Johnson, Starc, Cummins, Harris etc.

 

Averages 55.8 in tests IN South Africa with 2 centuries and a 90+ from just 5 tests against Steyn, Morkel, Rabada etc.

 

Averages 56.7 against 140 k+ balls in tests. He is 2nd in this list in the World, since speeds have been regularly measured from 1999.

 

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by express bowling

[Harsh Thakor]

3 hours ago, express bowling said:

How does Kohli miss the list  !!

 

Averages 55.4 in tests IN Australia with 6 centuries from just 12 tests. Against Johnson, Starc, Cummins, Harris etc.

 

Averages 55.8 in tests IN South Africa with 2 centuries and a 90+ from just 5 tests against Steyn, Morkel, Rabada etc.

 

Averages 56.7 against 140 k+ balls in tests. He is 2nd in this list in the World, since speeds have been regularly measured from 1999.

 

 

Very valid point.Almost there.However payers mentioned faced marginally better pace bowling,on harder wickets.Remember the express pace faced without protective gear in the days of Gavaskar or Vishwanath or standard of bowling Amarnath confronted at his best.I think Tendulkar played better South African pace bowling succesfully.

[Harsh Thakor]

3 hours ago, express bowling said:

How does Kohli miss the list  !!

 

Averages 55.4 in tests IN Australia with 6 centuries from just 12 tests. Against Johnson, Starc, Cummins, Harris etc.

 

Averages 55.8 in tests IN South Africa with 2 centuries and a 90+ from just 5 tests against Steyn, Morkel, Rabada etc.

 

Averages 56.7 against 140 k+ balls in tests. He is 2nd in this list in the World, since speeds have been regularly measured from 1999.

 

 

No doubt outstanding or right up there but did not face pace of the calibre of West Indies pace quartet of 1970's-80's,  Lillee-Thomson at fastest  even orWasim-Waqar duo.

[raki05]

2 hours ago, Harsh Thakor said:

No doubt outstanding or right up there but did not face pace of the calibre of West Indies pace quartet of 1970's-80's,  Lillee-Thomson at fastest  even orWasim-Waqar duo.

Hmm so Inzmam with whopping avg of 31 against sa and aus 2 of the best bowling team of his time is in all time asian xi ahead of Kohli, Dravid, Laxman , Ganguli,Sangaakara heck even sehwag who is having more than 45 avg against aus.

[express bowling]

4 hours ago, Harsh Thakor said:

Very valid point.Almost there.However payers mentioned faced marginally better pace bowling,on harder wickets.Remember the express pace faced without protective gear in the days of Gavaskar or Vishwanath or standard of bowling Amarnath confronted at his best.I think Tendulkar played better South African pace bowling succesfully.

 

4 hours ago, Harsh Thakor said:

No doubt outstanding or right up there but did not face pace of the calibre of West Indies pace quartet of 1970's-80's,  Lillee-Thomson at fastest  even orWasim-Waqar duo.

 

 

I have watched cricket from 1983 ... seen all the great pace bowlers from then on.

 

And my take is that the quality of the top fast bowlers across decades have been very good.  The quality and hostility of Bumrah, Rabada, Steyn or Cummins is right up there with the best of any era. Starc, Shami, Johnson, Morkel, Harris, Hazlewood etc. have been able foils. Now, Archer is looking so good. 

 

While it is true that most of the 1970s provided a great challenge in the form of no helmets ... which made even bouncy fast medium bowlers look fast ....

 

The 2010s decade provided great challenge in the form of

... too much cricket,

... constantly switching between 3 different formats,

... little time for working on weaknesses that may develop,

... only 1 practice match before every tough away test series. In 2018 SA test tour, there were no practice matches for us.

etc. 

 

Facing the hostile Aussie or South African quicks after only 1 or no practice matches ...in 5 different away test series ... was no joke for Kohli

 

Each era has its own challenges and own advantages. It is very difficult to compare across eras as a result.

 

But a great in one era will in all probability be a great in another era ... because greatness is primarily an outcome of great hunger for success of people with talent.

 

Tendulkar, Kohli, Gavaskar and Sangakkara are in a different league compared to other Asian batsmen. And Sehwag, Dravid, Miandad and Inzamam would come next.

 

Problem with choosing a Majid Khan or a Wasim Raja or even an Amarnath ... is that they lacked consistency and hunger for super success. On their good days they were very good ... we remember their fights against quick bowlers and a couple of stellar series ... but they cannot compete with the run machines who could or can play high pace too.

Edited November 3, 2020 by express bowling

[Ankit_sharma03]

4 hours ago, Harsh Thakor said:

No doubt outstanding or right up there but did not face pace of the calibre of West Indies pace quartet of 1970's-80's,  Lillee-Thomson at fastest  even orWasim-Waqar duo.

Virat kohli has faced Brett lee at the age of 18-19 and scored a 100 in a warm up game

Mitch johnson, Starc, Rabadaa, Cummins all are quick bowlers 

 

Was Lillee fast then all these ? I dnt think so 

Was wasim faster then Starc ? I dnt think so 

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, raki05 said:

Hmm so Inzmam with whopping avg of 31 against sa and aus 2 of the best bowling team of his time is in all time asian xi ahead of Kohli, Dravid, Laxman , Ganguli,Sangaakara heck even sehwag who is having more than 45 avg against aus.

 

 

And current day top quick bowlers are often held in a lower esteem unfairly.

 

But they are have such low averages and low strike rates despite bowling to batsmen with high averages. 

 

And the trio of Bumrah. Shami and Ishant have taken the highest number of wickets in test matches in a calender year by a fast bowling trio, beating the great West Indians, Australians and South Africans.

 

Just imagine the foursome of Bumrah, Shami, Ishant and Saini bowling to the 1970s unfit batsmen without helmets. They would have struck terror.

 

The number of body and head blows that Bumrah and Shami dealt to the SA and Aussie batsmen in 2018 and early 2019, won't be forgotten ... despite these batsmen wearing best protective gears, practicing using bowling machines and playing in their own country.   4 or 5 batters had to go to the hospital for checkups and play was stopped on one occasion after a hit to helmet by Bumrah.

 

What would they have done in the pre-helmet era. !!

Edited November 3, 2020 by express bowling

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Virat kohli has faced Brett lee at the age of 18-19 and scored a 100 in a warm up game

Mitch johnson, Starc, Rabadaa, Cummins all are quick bowlers 

 

Was Lillee fast then all these ? I dnt think so 

Was wasim faster then Starc ? I dnt think so 

 

 

1. There was an interview on TV by Graeme Swann of Sunil Gavaskar and  Viv Richards ... in 2019 when we toured the West Indies.

 

Swann asked these 2 greats, " The current fast bowlers say that they are much quicker than the fast bowlers of the 1970s and 1980s. What do you think ? "

 

Gavaskar and Richards said that, " That maybe the case but we did not have helmets and we did not have bowling machines to practice against. So, even that pace looked fearsome ".

 

 

 

2.  During the 2016, WI tour of India, Viv Richards said that Shami's height, pace, bounce and skills reminded him of Marshall. They are very similar in terms of pace, bounce and skills.

 

 

 

3. In every sport, compared to the 1970s and 1980s ...  the 2000s and 2010s sportsmen are running faster, swimming faster, sprinting faster, jumping higher and longer etc. So, It stands to reason that, that is the case with fast bowling too.

 

 

4. Having watched both Starc and Akram in their best years  ... Starc is much quicker than Akram.  Akram's ability to swing the ball at sharp pace made him more dangerous. And he has a very deceptive bouncer. Got the ball to bounce when you least expected it.

 

 

[putrevus]

Does the OP have any knowledge about the game, all I see is Majid Khan and Wasim Raja in his every list. Only a fricking Moron would keep Majid Khan and Wasim Raja ahead of guy like Kohli who is ATG already in all formats.

 

Are you fricking kidding me. Buddy you need to get lost before you put more junk here. 

 

I like GR Viswanath , even he and his family would laugh if you put Kohli ahead of him. Even Jimmy Amarnath who had  one of the greatest series in 1983 against WI is noway better in anything than Kohli. Sanga or Mahela and  Younis all were better than than Majid  and Wasim Raja.

 

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by putrevus

[punjabi_khota]

Inzi? Gtfo

[Harsh Thakor]

13 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

 

I have watched cricket from 1983 ... seen all the great pace bowlers from then on.

 

And my take is that the quality of the top fast bowlers across decades have been very good.  The quality and hostility of Bumrah, Rabada, Steyn or Cummins is right up there with the best of any era. Starc, Shami, Johnson, Morkel, Harris, Hazlewood etc. have been able foils. Now, Archer is looking so good. 

 

While it is true that most of the 1970s provided a great challenge in the form of no helmets ... which made even bouncy fast medium bowlers look fast ....

 

The 2010s decade provided great challenge in the form of

... too much cricket,

... constantly switching between 3 different formats,

... little time for working on weaknesses that may develop,

... only 1 practice match before every tough away test series. In 2018 SA test tour, there were no practice matches for us.

etc. 

 

Facing the hostile Aussie or South African quicks after only 1 or no practice matches ...in 5 different away test series ... was no joke for Kohli

 

Each era has its own challenges and own advantages. It is very difficult to compare across eras as a result.

 

But a great in one era will in all probability be a great in another era ... because greatness is primarily an outcome of great hunger for success of people with talent.

 

Tendulkar, Kohli, Gavaskar and Sangakkara are in a different league compared to other Asian batsmen. And Sehwag, Dravid, Miandad and Inzamam would come next.

 

Problem with choosing a Majid Khan or a Wasim Raja or even an Amarnath ... is that they lacked consistency and hunger for super success. On their good days they were very good ... we remember their fights against quick bowlers and a couple of stellar series ... but they cannot compete with the run machines who could or can play high pace too.

What about Gundappa Vishwanath?Lillee and Andy Roberts felt he played express pace better than even Gavaskar?Did not Wasim Raja have the best statistical record against West Indies in his time averaging over 56?Was not Majid ever consistent facing Roberts and Lillee?Read what players of his era like Imran say about Majid who averaged 53 against top pace in the Carribean in 1977.Amarnath played great pace better than anyone ever in 1982-83 facing Imran and Marshall at their best.In terms of pure skill against express pace the likes of Majid,Vishy or Amarnath at his best overshadow Sanga,Kohli,Miandad,Dravid  or arguably Tendulkar.

[Harsh Thakor]

9 hours ago, putrevus said:

Does the OP have any knowledge about the game, all I see is Majid Khan and Wasim Raja in his every list. Only a fricking Moron would keep Majid Khan and Wasim Raja ahead of guy like Kohli who is ATG already in all formats.

 

Are you fricking kidding me. Buddy you need to get lost before you put more junk here. 

 

I like GR Viswanath , even he and his family would laugh if you put Kohli ahead of him. Even Jimmy Amarnath who had  one of the greatest series in 1983 against WI is noway better in anything than Kohli. Sanga or Mahela and  Younis all were better than than Majid  and Wasim Raja.

 

 

Please check the record of Wasim Raja and Majid Khan against the top Carribean pace battery before helmets were introduced.Raja averages over 57 while Majid around 50.Mjaid alsos cored a 158 against Lillee at his best.Wasim has a better average than even Gavaskar or Chappell against top West Indies pace.

[Harsh Thakor]

8 hours ago, punjabi_khota said:

Inzi? Gtfo

Even Imran rated him the best batsman facing pace in his era.Examine his record against West Indies and at his best against Australia and South Africa.Inzy wa sthe bestmatch-winner of his day averaging over 78 in tests won.Shoaib Akhtar thought Inzy played him better than Lara or Tendulkar.

[putrevus]

13 hours ago, Harsh Thakor said:

Please check the record of Wasim Raja and Majid Khan against the top Carribean pace battery before helmets were introduced.Raja averages over 57 while Majid around 50.Mjaid alsos cored a 158 against Lillee at his best.Wasim has a better average than even Gavaskar or Chappell against top West Indies pace.

Are you kidding me? You are rating a batsman better based on one series. Jimmy Amarnath Avg over  65 in 1983 against WI in WI. The same Jimmy could not buy a run in the return series in India against same team.He scored 1 run in six innings. Did Jimmy become worse batsman in space of few months.A batsman does not become ATG based on one lousy series.

 

Wasim Raja has 4 fricking 100s in his career and you are rating him better than Greg Chappel against pace. Greg Chappel destroyed WI in 1975 thumping WI 5-1 under his captaincy. Majid fricking Khan avgs 38 in tests , he is not better in anything than  Mahela, Sanga, Younis forget Kohli.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by putrevus

[putrevus]

7 hours ago, Harsh Thakor said:

Even Imran rated him the best batsman facing pace in his era.Examine his record against West Indies and at his best against Australia and South Africa.Inzy wa sthe bestmatch-winner of his day averaging over 78 in tests won.Shoaib Akhtar thought Inzy played him better than Lara or Tendulkar.

Imran is/was douchebag, he also said Pakistan has better fast bowlers because of so called genes.So stop quoting him as if it is some bible. I like Inzi, he is not fit to tie Sachin's shoelaces.Inzi has one lousy 100 against Australia best team of his era and averaged 31 against them.

 

I don't want to read you singing mindless praises about  MK and WR .Cricket is the game we love and something which you have absolutely no clue.

[Suhaan]

10 hours ago, Harsh Thakor said:

Even Imran rated him the best batsman facing pace in his era.Examine his record against West Indies and at his best against Australia and South Africa.Inzy wa sthe bestmatch-winner of his day averaging over 78 in tests won.Shoaib Akhtar thought Inzy played him better than Lara or Tendulkar.

Taliban khan is all about bottle caps, take his opinion with truckload of salt,chewts have a habit of issuing hyperboles

Shehzad better than Tendulkar, remember?

Offcourse then ,there is a word "tailunt"which comes with anything paxtani

[raki05]

15 hours ago, Harsh Thakor said:

Even Imran rated him the best batsman facing pace in his era.Examine his record against West Indies and at his best against Australia and South Africa.Inzy wa sthe bestmatch-winner of his day averaging over 78 in tests won.Shoaib Akhtar thought Inzy played him better than Lara or Tendulkar.

Does charshi and brain dead jealous pakistani cricketers comments hold any worth. 

[raki05]

15 hours ago, Harsh Thakor said:

Even Imran rated him the best batsman facing pace in his era.Examine his record against West Indies and at his best against Australia and South Africa.Inzy wa sthe bestmatch-winner of his day averaging over 78 in tests won.Shoaib Akhtar thought Inzy played him better than Lara or Tendulkar.

Isn't Taliban Khan said Indian captains were feeling feared in front of him. Afretard said we havr defeated them so much that they asked for forgiveness and who can forget brain-dead Akhtar's comments that Sachin leg was shaking. Cricket post 90s started became too professional sports and at this era of time when there are so many cameras and technology involved no one has to bank on some sooth sayer or old *s orTalibani cricketers to gauge worth of  supremely athletes cricketers of modern days. It's laughable even to compare those amature era cricketers to modern day once. They might be good at their time but hey who cares hardly few people watch them live and no inzi with 31 avg against aus and sa is absolute garbage against pace bowling we dont need to listen to some brain dead Pakistani cricketers to evaluate his worth against pace. Even Balaji and Nehra ji and Prasad ji has embarassed him on various occasions.