'Delhi Chalo' movement/farmers protest

[coffee_rules]

33 minutes ago, Khota said:

Put it in writing.

As per demand, if the laws are repealed , even then it will not be in writing. So, that demand doesn't make sense. Those policies remain as is. 

[Real McCoy]

32 minutes ago, Khota said:

Do you think Rs 16,000 a month is a living wage with an average family of four???

 

Andhra/Karnatka etc got all the industry with the excuse that Punjab cannot have industry as it is close to border. Why bring this disparity and ignore other.

 

The protest is not about their excessive Rs 16,000 but to improve the lot of Andhra farmers so that they can come to 16,000 also. 

 

I know what you are doing here. First you make it about religion. Now you are making it about state vs state.

 

Divide and conquer. Learned well from your British masters.

If 16k is not enough for 4, think about 5k. I agree its not a state v state thing, but usually thats how they do it. When Jallikattu protests were happening, same thing was done in the news media saying how bad people we Tamils are for doing this to animals. FFS we didnt kill the animal. Its just a sport which is part of the tradition and works for preserving cattle breeds which peta hates.

[coffee_rules]

49 minutes ago, Khota said:

Do you think Rs 16,000 a month is a living wage with an average family of four???

 

Andhra/Karnatka etc got all the industry with the excuse that Punjab cannot have industry as it is close to border. Why bring this disparity and ignore other.

 

The protest is not about their excessive Rs 16,000 but to improve the lot of Andhra farmers so that they can come to 16,000 also. 

 

I know what you are doing here. First you make it about religion. Now you are making it about state vs state.

 

Divide and conquer. Learned well from your British masters.

 

Do you know how averages work? It is not evenly distributed, so there are rich fat zamindars who make 15% of farmers and ear in crores, while 85% are not rich in the thousands ranges, look at the standard deviation. It is not evenly distributed 16k across all families. The wealth distribution should be evened out, so all 85% of the gets a piece of the pie. All money from Ph farmers is coming from taxpayers money as 94% of MSP revenue is gained by Ph farmers. So, removing selling restrictions for poor farmers to sell across different geographical regions which is restricted now, will get wealth distributed. Now Bihar farmers could sell in APMCs of Punjab, which they don't want.  Telengana doesn't want to set up state govt mandated APMCs and MSP. So, farmers are at the mercy of traders, 

APMCs and MSP is set by state committees as the markets are local. For some crops, MSP in P is 1/2 the price of the same in H. INC in P can fix this issue. Amrinder can himself assure that APMCs and MSP will remain for P after the new laws. It's no rocket science, why AAP and INC are washing their hands in behati ganga. 

[mishra]

1 hour ago, LordPrabhzy said:

You know they were going to?

 

and then the demands changed yet again to release sharjeel imam and no to 5g towers. This is why no one takes the farmer unions seriously now. They can bark all they want.

Bhai, Farmers are not wrong. I am in India and I now understand farmers angle. Its double edged sword.  For example, Privatisation of electricity brought 24X7 to electricity to farmers but their electricity bills increased several times and became unaffordable.

 

 

BJP and corporate media want to contain issues such as above and highlighting just MSP. Farmers in rest of India are not as informed as in Punjab and adjoining states

[coffee_rules]

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/consensus-between-farmers-govt-on-two-points-other-two-to-be-discussed-in-jan-4-meet-tomar/articleshow/80029107.cms

 

Electricity tariffs changes removed, no penalty for stubble burning (bad for Delhi weather - Indraprastha dwellers, take note).  This is what the farmers in Punjab were demanding, so they can burn stubble freely

 

"The farmers wanted the government to keep them out of the preview of fines for stubble burning.

Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/80029107.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

[coffee_rules]

6 minutes ago, mishra said:

Bhai, Farmers are not wrong. I am in India and I now understand farmers angle. Its double edged sword.  For example, Privatisation of electricity brought 24X7 to electricity to farmers but their electricity bills increased several times and became unaffordable.

 

 

BJP and corporate media want to contain issues such as above and highlighting just MSP. Farmers in rest of India are not as informed as in Punjab and adjoining states

 

You know that Agri culture ministry is there in state govts as well. They have been reforming agri laws based on local needs. 

 

It has been on the agenda since the first model act, that we need to integrate markets. Earlier, even within the state APMCs were not integrated, you had to seek a separate license for each APMC. Then the model act said that you can also have one single license for the entire set of APMCs in a state. Somehow, the centre thought recently that the progress and speed on reforms is not as much as it
...

22 states have established private markets, 21 have e-trading, 23 have a single license or a single point levy on the APMC purchases, 20 have contract farming permitted legally now and 17 have what are called farmer consumer market yards. 70-80% of the reforms have been done by each state with some variation here and there but it is definitely not 100% as expected.

Read more at: https://www.bloombergquint.com/law-and-policy/new-farm-laws-good-intent-missing-safeguards
Copyright © BloombergQuint
Read more at: https://www.bloombergquint.com/law-and-policy/new-farm-laws-good-intent-missing-safeguards
Copyright © BloombergQuint

[ravishingravi]

1 hour ago, Khota said:

Put it in writing.

It cannot be because it is not a right. Govt is not obliged to buy from farmers. Farmers don’t produce to sell at MSP. Otherwise it’s just a contract between govt and farmers. 
 

test - show ne the exact clause where msp was provided before new farms bill. State the extract of clause. 

[ravishingravi]

1 hour ago, Khota said:

Replaced by another monoply of few.

 

Oligarchy is where India is headed.

Repeating the same BS doesn’t work. You have to come up with facts. Seems you are afraid of free markets. If it would be up to you, 1991 reforms would not have ever happened and we would be a socialist 1% growth rate country celebrating farmer suicides. 

Edited December 30, 2020 by ravishingravi

[Khota]

2 hours ago, LordPrabhzy said:

Exactly so maybe you should read up a bit more on the side you’re batting for and see how goalposts have been changed why these union leaders and they bringing in their politics.

 

okay so you’re not also not satisfied with a guarantee that it will be in writing.. what do you actually want? PS 

Put it in writing ans that would satisfy all parties.

[Khota]

56 minutes ago, ravishingravi said:

Repeating the same BS doesn’t work. You have to come up with facts. Seems you are afraid of free markets. If it would be up to you, 1991 reforms would not have ever happened and we would be a socialist 1% growth rate country celebrating farmer suicides. 

I am all for free market but farming is slightly different.

 

1991 reforms were long due and helped the country.

 

Current policies are not working as BD per capita GDP> Inida.

 

Come up with pragmatic reforms and everyone will for it.

[Khota]

2 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

As per demand, if the laws are repealed , even then it will not be in writing. So, that demand doesn't make sense. Those policies remain as is. 

But they were being honored and that is the difference.

[coffee_rules]

1 minute ago, Khota said:

But they were being honored and that is the difference.

 

They are going to be still honored as APMC/MSP is a different act giving state control. There is no change to that act. They were ready to give it in writing, but unions / opposition is thinking that the govt is relenting to pressure and now wants all laws to be repealed. 

[Khota]

1 hour ago, Real McCoy said:

If 16k is not enough for 4, think about 5k. I agree its not a state v state thing, but usually thats how they do it. When Jallikattu protests were happening, same thing was done in the news media saying how bad people we Tamils are for doing this to animals. FFS we didnt kill the animal. Its just a sport which is part of the tradition and works for preserving cattle breeds which peta hates.

I enjoy jallikatu and that is a tradition that needs to continue. Tamils should be proud and not yield.

 

5K is worse and it should come up and that is not the issue.

 

Issue is India is heading towards where top 1% control everything. That needs to be fixed.

[coffee_rules]

5 minutes ago, Khota said:

I

 

Current policies are not working as BD per capita GDP> Inida.

 

Come up with pragmatic reforms and everyone will for it.

 

Rinse and repeat. Farming is just 18% of GDP. Any amount of reform will not help per-capita GDP. We need to go back to pre-covid  economy to improve it. Moreever our economy is not BD centric to worry about it.

[Khota]

5 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

They are going to be still honored as APMC/MSP is a different act giving state control. There is no change to that act. They were ready to give it in writing, but unions / opposition is thinking that the govt is relenting to pressure and now wants all laws to be repealed. 

And they don't believe that because of trust deficit and the manner in which these laws were passes. Adnani group already purchased land and is building godowns even before the law was passed. That is same as insider trading.

[Khota]

4 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

Rinse and repeat. Farming is just 18% of GDP. Any amount of reform will not help per-capita GDP. We need to go back to pre-covid  economy to improve it. Moreever our economy is not BD centric to worry about it.

Why disturb the few remaining farmers inthe name of reform. Start with PSU's which are a bigger drain and have nothing to show for.

 

I have spend months on farms and years in PSU. I know how much a PSU employee vs farmer work ratio is.

[Khota]

1 hour ago, ravishingravi said:

It cannot be because it is not a right. Govt is not obliged to buy from farmers. Farmers don’t produce to sell at MSP. Otherwise it’s just a contract between govt and farmers. 
 

test - show ne the exact clause where msp was provided before new farms bill. State the extract of clause. 

Why is the word MSP in the conversation if it did not exist?

[coffee_rules]

3 minutes ago, Khota said:

And they don't believe that because of trust deficit and the manner in which these laws were passes. Adnani group already purchased land and is building godowns even before the law was passed. That is same as insider trading.

 

The government is in talks to convince the adv of new laws. But, unions don't want to hear and only asking to repeal. Foolish.

Source for the godowns? You know 17 states have contract farming legally. How do we know it was not part of that. Plus building godowns is good, so FCI can lease those and reduce the rotting of grains in their godowns

[coffee_rules]

7 minutes ago, Khota said:

Why disturb the few remaining farmers inthe name of reform. Start with PSU's which are a bigger drain and have nothing to show for.

 

I have spend months on farms and years in PSU. I know how much a PSU employee vs farmer work ratio is.

 

Because Ph frmers are not the only farmers. Others need reform. There is NO FACKING thing changing for Ph farmers. They still have their APMCs and MSP. Lootlo desh ko. Which part of NGO/GO did you do this study? Just making fleeting statements on MBs will not make it a fact

Edited December 30, 2020 by coffee_rules

[Real McCoy]

6 minutes ago, Khota said:

And they don't believe that because of trust deficit and the manner in which these laws were passes. Adnani group already purchased land and is building godowns even before the law was passed. That is same as insider trading.

And adnani took or about to take a huge loan from SBI while our Fin Min still trying to put the FRDI bill which was rejected 4 years ago. Meanwhile Mallya and Nirav modi enjoying in London and New york. Interesting. very interesting