Do we have our Fab 4 Back

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

3 hours ago, neel roy said:

Yes but whatever test record Ishant ends up with he will still be remembered for two things.. the unworldly scare he gave to Ponting before getting him out in Perth 2008 and his two matchturning and headscratching consecutive balls with which he got Ravi Bopara and freaking Eoin Morgans ( still cant believe it!) wickets and won us the 2013 Champions Trophy..

Not the 30-run over against James Faulkner? 

[Jimmy Cliff]

8 hours ago, neel roy said:

Yes but whatever test record Ishant ends up with he will still be remembered for two things.. the unworldly scare he gave to Ponting before getting him out in Perth 2008 and his two matchturning and headscratching consecutive balls with which he got Ravi Bopara and freaking Eoin Morgans ( still cant believe it!) wickets and won us the 2013 Champions Trophy..

 

4 hours ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

Not the 30-run over against James Faulkner? 

 

 

[rtmohanlal]

On 1/30/2021 at 9:08 PM, Trichromatic said:

 

Way to overrate them. 

no over rating ..... just the obvious .....  all of them baring Laxman were  'two format' players.  Rohit is just a HTB.  Pujara  is way off in sena + wi baring AUS  &  'test only',

Rahane is test only &  don't have a uniform record in SENA + wi.  Even  Kohli has <40 AVG: in 3 countries in tests. 

[SrinjayDutta]

13 hours ago, neel roy said:

Yes but whatever test record Ishant ends up with he will still be remembered for two things.. the unworldly scare he gave to Ponting before getting him out in Perth 2008 and his two matchturning and headscratching consecutive balls with which he got Ravi Bopara and freaking Eoin Morgans ( still cant believe it!) wickets and won us the 2013 Champions Trophy..

also the lords test 2014. that was a memorable performance in a famous victory.

[Trichromatic]

2 hours ago, rtmohanlal said:

no over rating ..... just the obvious .....  all of them baring Laxman were  'two format' players.  Rohit is just a HTB.  Pujara  is way off in sena + wi baring AUS  &  'test only',

Rahane is test only &  don't have a uniform record in SENA + wi.  Even  Kohli has <40 AVG: in 3 countries in tests. 

 

Does this take into account that 2003-2012 was flattest era for batsmen and quality of bowlers was nowhere same?

 

England bowling attack of 2000s and that too on pitches where both sides were scoring 500-600 v Anderson Broad in 2 consecutive series where pitches were very diferent.

Australian pitches 2003 series - highways against popgun attack v bowling friendly tracks in 2 series (except 2014) against ATG attacks.

NZ series - well fab 4 played on greentop against Bond (only world class bowler) and struggled to get to 150. Oram, Kyle Mills were own this line up. Current gen is facing greatest bowling line up NZ has assembled.

WI - flat pitches in 2000s v all bowler friendly tracks.

SA - This is where it evens out. 2000s had faced better bowling.

SL - 2000s had faced better bowling, current gen had more bowling friendly pitches.

 

It's not that this line up hasn't shown that they can score big consistently against easy bowling attacks like fab 4 did in 2000s.

 

When did fab 4 stood up to quality bowling attacks in SENA in bowling friendly conditons? Sehwag was walking wicket, Dravid couldn't score in SA and Aus, Ganguly was always same, rarely stood up. Laxman and SRT were only ones capable of doing so. 

 

 

[Soldier]

4 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Does this take into account that 2003-2012 was flattest era for batsmen and quality of bowlers was nowhere same?

 

England bowling attack of 2000s and that too on pitches where both sides were scoring 500-600 v Anderson Broad in 2 consecutive series where pitches were very diferent.

Australian pitches 2003 series - highways against popgun attack v bowling friendly tracks in 2 series (except 2014) against ATG attacks.

NZ series - well fab 4 played on greentop against Bond (only world class bowler) and struggled to get to 150. Oram, Kyle Mills were own this line up. Current gen is facing greatest bowling line up NZ has assembled.

WI - flat pitches in 2000s v all bowler friendly tracks.

SA - This is where it evens out. 2000s had faced better bowling.

SL - 2000s had faced better bowling, current gen had more bowling friendly pitches.

 

It's not that this line up hasn't shown that they can score big consistently against easy bowling attacks like fab 4 did in 2000s.

 

When did fab 4 stood up to quality bowling attacks in SENA in bowling friendly conditons? Sehwag was walking wicket, Dravid couldn't score in SA and Aus, Ganguly was always same, rarely stood up. Laxman and SRT were only ones capable of doing so. 

 

 

Game set match. 

[kohli]

4 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Does this take into account that 2003-2012 was flattest era for batsmen and quality of bowlers was nowhere same?

 

England bowling attack of 2000s and that too on pitches where both sides were scoring 500-600 v Anderson Broad in 2 consecutive series where pitches were very diferent.

Australian pitches 2003 series - highways against popgun attack v bowling friendly tracks in 2 series (except 2014) against ATG attacks.

NZ series - well fab 4 played on greentop against Bond (only world class bowler) and struggled to get to 150. Oram, Kyle Mills were own this line up. Current gen is facing greatest bowling line up NZ has assembled.

WI - flat pitches in 2000s v all bowler friendly tracks.

SA - This is where it evens out. 2000s had faced better bowling.

SL - 2000s had faced better bowling, current gen had more bowling friendly pitches.

 

It's not that this line up hasn't shown that they can score big consistently against easy bowling attacks like fab 4 did in 2000s.

 

When did fab 4 stood up to quality bowling attacks in SENA in bowling friendly conditons? Sehwag was walking wicket, Dravid couldn't score in SA and Aus, Ganguly was always same, rarely stood up. Laxman and SRT were only ones capable of doing so. 

 

 

So according to you eng 2000 -2007bowling attack ( hogard, harminson, Jones, cork, Flintoff ,Anderson , Sidebottom & Panesar ) is avg attack but eng 2014-2018( Anderson ,  broad + curren,planket,woakes,adil rashid, moin & stokes ) is atg attack.Anderson played against ind in 2007.

in 2000 wi had gun batting that’s why they made lot of run in home and current wi batting is medicore ( flat pitch vs bowling friendly pitch).

aus pitch was flat in 2004 as well as 2014 & 2018. 
against nz- u mention 2002 green top but u forget to write any thing about 2009 nz tour.

Sl pitches is always same but in 2000 they had gun batting But right now they have medicore batting unit ( again flat vs bowling friendly).

[Trichromatic]

16 minutes ago, kohli said:

So according to you eng 2000 -2007bowling attack ( hogard, harminson, Jones, cork, Flintoff ,Anderson , Sidebottom & Panesar ) is avg attack but eng 2014-2018( Anderson ,  broad + curren,planket,woakes,adil rashid, moin & stokes ) is atg attack.Anderson played against ind in 2007.

in 2000 wi had gun batting that’s why they made lot of run in home and current wi batting is medicore ( flat pitch vs bowling friendly pitch).

aus pitch was flat in 2004 as well as 2014 & 2018. 
against nz- u mention 2002 green top but u forget to write any thing about 2009 nz tour.

Sl pitches is always same but in 2000 they had gun batting But right now they have medicore batting unit ( again flat vs bowling friendly).

 

You can answer that question yourself.

 

Whom would you face?

 

Anderson of 2007 or Anderson of 2014.

 

And yes, Anderson of 2007 was avg bowler and below avg on flat tracks of 2007.

 

Anderson of 2014 is great bowler and ATG level in bowling friendly conditions of 2014.

 

And I am surprised that I have to tell what's the difference.

 

 

2009 NZ series

Kyle Mills, Ian O'Brien, Christ Martin on flat pitches

v

Trent Boult, Southee, Wagner on flat/bowling friendly tracks.

 

Again is it really needed to tell current NZ attack is their best ever?

 

 

 

[kohli]

7 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

You can answer that question yourself.

 

Whom would you face?

 

Anderson of 2007 or Anderson of 2014.

 

And yes, Anderson of 2007 was avg bowler and below avg on flat tracks of 2007.

 

Anderson of 2014 is great bowler and ATG level in bowling friendly conditions of 2014.

 

And I am surprised that I have to tell what's the difference.

 

 

2009 NZ series

Kyle Mills, Ian O'Brien, Christ Martin on flat pitches

v

Trent Boult, Southee, Wagner on bowling friendly tracks.

 

Again is it really needed to tell current NZ attack is their best ever?

 

 

Tell me how 2014 nz was bowling friendly pitch ?

[Trichromatic]

3 minutes ago, kohli said:

Tell me how 2014 nz was bowling friendly pitch ?

 

It wasn't.

 

Now tell me how Chris Martin, Ian O'Brian, Kyle Mills are better than Trent Boult, Southee and Wagner?

 

Avg attack on flat pitches (what 2003-12 lines up faced most of the time).

 

Great/ATG lines up on flat pitches (what current lot is facing in some matches overseas)

 

Great/ATG line up on bowling friendly tracks (what current lot faces in many matches).

 

It's not a difficult pick.

[kohli]

10 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

You can answer that question yourself.

 

Whom would you face?

 

Anderson of 2007 or Anderson of 2014.

 

And yes, Anderson of 2007 was avg bowler and below avg on flat tracks of 2007.

 

Anderson of 2014 is great bowler and ATG level in bowling friendly conditions of 2014.

 

And I am surprised that I have to tell what's the difference.

 

 

2009 NZ series

Kyle Mills, Ian O'Brien, Christ Martin on flat pitches

v

Trent Boult, Southee, Wagner on bowling friendly tracks.

 

Again is it really needed to tell current NZ attack is their best ever?

 

 

Anderson & broad are atg but total English attack is 2 atg bowler + 2 avg bowler in 2014+ 2018

current English attack is little bit better than 2000 but again what is the batting avg of kohli, pujara & rahane in eng - less than 40.

[kohli]

11 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

It wasn't.

 

Now tell me how Chris Martin, Ian O'Brian, Kyle Mills are better than Trent Boult, Southee and Wagner?

 

Avg attack on flat pitches (what 2003-12 lines up faced most of the time).

 

Great/ATG lines up on flat pitches (what current lot is facing in some matches overseas)

 

Great/ATG line up on bowling friendly tracks (what current lot faces in many matches).

 

It's not a difficult pick.

Current nz attack is better but again what is the batting avg of kohli , rahane & pujara in nz - less than 40.

[Trichromatic]

4 minutes ago, kohli said:

Current nz attack is better but again what is the batting avg of kohli , rahane & pujara in nz - less than 40.

 

 

I don't know what are you're arguing for. I was replying to post which claimed current lot is 4 levels below line of 2000s.u

 

And batting likes of Dravid, Sehwag, Ganguly had less than 40 avg in Aus despite facing inferior attacks on flatter pitches.

 

Can you list down how many times batsmen of 2000s averaged more 40 in bowling friendly conditons? 

 

Can you list down how many times batsmen of 2000s averaged more 40 in bowling friendly conditons against great attacks?

[kohli]

Fab 4 old vs new

in Eng

dravid- 68.      Kohli-36

ganguly-65.     Pujara-29

sachin -54.       Rahane-29

vvs- 34.            Rohit-17

[kohli]

In Nz

Dravid-63.   Rohit-40

sachin-49.    Kohli-36

vvs     -40.     Rahane-35

ganguly-26.   Pujara-20

[kohli]

In Aus 

Sachin-53.     Kohli-54

vvs.     -44.     Pujara-47

dravid -41.       Rahane-42

ganguly-34.     Rohit-31

[kohli]

In SA

Sachin-46.    Kohli -55

vvs-     40.      Rahane-53

ganguly-36.    Pujara-31

dravid -29.       Rohit-17

[Trichromatic]

12 minutes ago, kohli said:

Fab 4 old vs new

in Eng

dravid- 68.      Kohli-36

ganguly-65.     Pujara-29

sachin -54.       Rahane-29

vvs- 34.            Rohit-17

 

8 minutes ago, kohli said:

In Nz

Dravid-63.   Rohit-40

sachin-49.    Kohli-36

vvs     -40.     Rahane-35

ganguly-26.   Pujara-20

 

4 minutes ago, kohli said:

In Aus 

Sachin-53.     Kohli-54

vvs.     -44.     Pujara-47

dravid -41.       Rahane-42

ganguly-34.     Rohit-31

 

 

Can you list down how many times batsmen of 2000s averaged more 40 in bowling friendly conditons? 

 

Can you list down how many times batsmen of 2000s averaged more 40 in bowling friendly conditons against great attacks?

[kohli]

In Wi

Dravid-65.       Rahane-102

sachin -47.       Kohli-35

vvs.     -47.        Rohit-25

ganguly -40.     Pujara-20

[kohli]

4 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

 

 

 

Can you list down how many times batsmen of 2000s averaged more 40 in bowling friendly conditons? 

 

Can you list down how many times batsmen of 2000s averaged more 40 in bowling friendly conditons against great attacks?

I don’t know how can you judge bowling friendly conditions. Good batting unit can make 400 on bowling friendly pitch & medicore batting unit can’t make even 300 on patta.