IPL ... Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners ....

[Nikhil_cric]

8 minutes ago, Kron said:

Nobody. Maybe woody? For 3 years now

Nortje for 6 months

 

Yea no one hey.

 

In the past shoaib for entire career. 

Lee

That's it

 

Nortje is the closest. He was bowling consistently high speeds in Australia and he has somewhat maintained his pace since his debut. Let's see if he can do it after his recent injury. 

 

Wood plays very selectively and even then he couldn't sustain his pace throughout the India series. 

 

Would regularly drop to late 130's . He is 34 though so age may have caught up . 

 

 

[JaFanatic]

32 minutes ago, Kron said:

Nobody. Maybe woody? For 3 years now

Nortje for 6 months

 

Yea no one hey.

 

In the past shoaib for entire career. 

Lee

That's it

No Shoaib and Lee weren't as quick in their second half. They were mostly 140s occasionally crossing 150 at times 155. I don't know from where these notions come from that Shoaib and Lee never slowed down from their peak years.

 

PS - Sorry I just saw your post and didn't see the context. My bad. Yes they were always around 140-145 or even in the latter stages of their test career. 

Edited April 19 by JaFanatic

[MediumPacer]

37 minutes ago, JaFanatic said:

No Shoaib and Lee weren't as quick in their second half. They were mostly 140s occasionally crossing 150 at times 155. I don't know from where these notions come from that Shoaib and Lee never slowed down from their peak years.

 

PS - Sorry I just saw your post and didn't see the context. My bad. Yes they were always around 140-145 or even in the latter stages of their test career. 

Speedometers are not always correct.

 

for eg during ashes Cummins was looking quick but speedometer was showing 85mph ,there was a big difference between his 85 and woakes 85mph.

[tapandrun]

145+ kmph sustained pace has never been achieved and from post looks like they are talking about 145+ kmph through out bowler's career not sure if any1 would be able to to do that if their career is longer than3 years.

 

Before Lee and Akthar there was nothing like bowling flat out fast each ball, Bowlers would bowl rubbish spells and when in rhythm or when needed they bring up the pace.

And then there are place like NZ where speedometer looks like has slowed down by 10 kmph either its cold there that the bowlers are not able to flat out fast or because of smaller grounds they do not want to bowl that fast.

 

 

Lee and Akthar were lucky that they didnt had major injury, yes Akthar had bad knees but do not think he had anything related to back or shoulder.

And they slowed down a bit nearing their end of career age catches up. Both to start with were proper express bowlers bowling 145+ kmph.

 

Then there was Tait could be fastest amongst the three but did bowl that much and not played test cricket that much to keep him in same league of Lee and Akthar.

But GIlchrist once said he thinks Tait was fastest he kept to and he kept both Lee and Tait at their primes

 

Then as Akthar talks about he hit a point where he as unable to bowl even faster so he started gym and then worked his pace up. Was able to crank up pace to 155+kmph.

Lee describes, Akthar and him had a kind of riverly where both were trying to out pace eachother hence Lee also worked up his pace.

There was Sami who Ind batter felt like bowling faster than Akthar when Ind toured Pak and think he bowled few balls in 160+ kmph ~163 kmph were were thought to be some tech. mistake

 

Aus handled Lee v.effectivley they would not bring him to Ind or Aisa in his initial stages. They surrounded him with the bowlers who could bowl longer spells.

 

 

Since then many came but got injured and never were the same bowlers or bowled at same pace.

Starc almost came in as Fast medium hard going upto 140+ kmph and then worked his speeds up and was getting in 150 kmphs in test and white ball.

Now that Aus does not have back-up test fast bowlers all three have slowed down, age and work load is one thing and then there was an Interview with Tait where he said there is a believe that new Kookaburra swings at 140-145 kmph hence no one bowling at express pace these days.

 

Wood these days is proper 150+ kmph bowler in test and white ball, he bowls flat out like Akthar or Lee, but donot think he bowled 155+kmph ever most of his top speed were 154.xx kmph.

After returning from injury and working on run up he has not slowed down but gained the pace, remarkable to do that in your 30s. And Eng have been smart with handling him, they carry him wont play all the matches.

4-5 years back only Eng fans were telling he can bowl fast but he hardly touched 150s and was mosrt under 145 kmph and bowl few 145+ kmph thats it.

 

 

Rabada has slowed down after 2019 could because of got Nortje and does not need to bowl flat out and once you lose repetition u lose pace.

 

When fully fit Nortje can crank it up even in test can go 150+ kmph.

 

Rauf is another one who since 2019 have been bowling  able to slip few 150 kmph in white ball but never went pass 155+kmph. And he doesnt play test cricket and before 2019 he may bowl couple of ball  ~150 in a season in intnl games but clock 150 kmph often in PSL. For a tennis ball player its remarkable 1st to bowl at those speeds with heavier balls and they to play for 50 over bowling 10 overs in different phases. In tennis ball he would have hardly bowled 20 balls a day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

Edited April 19 by tapandrun

[rkt.india]

7 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

145+ kmph sustained pacer has never been achieved and from post looks like they are talking about 145+ kmph through out bowler's career not sure if any1 would be able to to do that if their career is longer than3 years.

 

Before Lee and Akthar was nothing like bowling flat out fast each ball, Bowlers would bowl rubbish spells and when in rhythm or when needed they bring up the pace.

And then there are place like NZ where speedometer looks like has slowed down by 10 kmph either its cold there that the bowlers are not able to flat out fast or because of smaller grounds they do not want to bowl that fast.

 

 

Lee and Akthar were lucky that they didnt had major injury, yes Akthar had bad knees but do not think he had anything related to back or shoulder.

And they slowed down a bit nearing their end of career age catches up. Both to start with were proper express bowlers bowling 145+ kmph.

 

Then there was Tait could be fastest amongst the three but did bowl that much and not played test cricket that much to keep him in same league of Lee and Akthar.

But GIlchrist once said he thinks Tait was fastest he kept to and he kept both Lee and Tait at their primes

 

Then as Akthar talks about he hit a point where he as unable to bowl even faster so he started gym and then worked his pace up. Was able to crank up pace to 155+kmph.

Lee describes, Akthar and him had a kind of riverly where both were trying to out pace eachother hence Lee also worked up his pace.

 

Aus handled Lee v.effectivley they would not bring him to Ind or Aisa in his initial stages. They surrounded him with the bowlers who could bowl longer spells.

 

 

Since then many came but got injured and never were the same bowlers or bowled at same pace.

Starc almost came in as Fast medium hard going upto 140+ kmph and then worked his speeds up and was getting in 150 kmphs in test and white ball.

Now that Aus does not have back-up test fast bowlers all three have slowed down, age and work load is one thing and then there was an Interview with Tait where he said there is a believe that new Kookaburra swings at 140-145 kmph hence no one bowling at express pace these days.

 

Wood these days is proper 150+ kmph bowler in test and white ball, he bowls flat out like Akthar or Lee, but donot think he bowled 155+kmph ever most of his top speed were 154.xx kmph.

After returning from injury and working on run up he has not slowed down but gained the pace, remarkable to do that in your 30s. And Eng have been smart with handling him, they carry him wont play all the matches.

4-5 years back only Eng fans were telling he can bowl fast but he hardly touched 150s and was mosrt under 145 kmph and bowl few 145+ kmph thats it.

 

 

Rabada has slowed down after 2019 could because of got Nortje and does not need to bowl flat out and once you lose repetition u lose pace.

 

When fully fit Nortje can crank it up even in test can go 150+ kmph.

 

Rauf is another one who since 2019 have been bowling  able to slip few 150 kmph in white ball but never went pass 155+kmph. And he doesnt play test cricket and before 2019 he may bowl couple of ball  ~150 in a season in intnl games but clock 150 kmph often in PSL. For a tennis ball player its remarkable 1st to bowl at those speeds with heavier balls and they to play for 50 over bowling 10 overs in different phases. In tennis ball he would have hardly bowled 20 balls a day

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

Muloghonto will tell you bowlers in 80s like Marshall, holding, Roberts bowled 95 mph whole day 

[tapandrun]

34 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Muloghonto will tell you bowlers in 80s like Marshall, holding, Roberts bowled 95 mph whole day 

These bowlers looked effort less, assume they were bowling consistently as ppl claim they were.

Since the speeds were measured and recorded how many such bowlers have any1 seen bowling so effortlessly where you thought how is he getting that kind of readings ??

 

Only Jofra comes into mind no1 else every1 looked like they are putting a lot of effort going 145+ kmph. 

With modern scientific knowledge and athletes becoming more aware and stronger ever before in all aspect of the sport and new records and made an broken each event.

Some1 telling that back in their days roses were reder kind of thing. There could be 1 freak a unicorn type of a bowler but there can not be that many without the need of specialized med. support.

  

This is we are talking about not fully professional sports which is kinf of trying to become professional in last 3 decades

Edited April 19 by tapandrun

[express bowling]

25 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Muloghonto will tell you bowlers in 80s like Marshall, holding, Roberts bowled 95 mph whole day 

 

And Fast bowlers of the 1960s, like Hall, used to bowl at 100 mph whole day, run from the boundary line and fire used to come out of their noses as they bowled. 

[singhvivek141]

35 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Muloghonto will tell you bowlers in 80s like Marshall, holding, Roberts bowled 95 mph whole day 

Holdings and Roberts were more of 140-145kph bowlers...Marshall too was of same pace but he was skiddy..maybe 147-148 clicks at times but 150+ consistently is too good to be true.

 

Only Thompson tbh looked like someone who can clock 145-150. Some of deliveries were literally too quick for the batters, not sure if it was due to reflexes but he looked genuinely quicker.

[MediumPacer]

3 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Holdings and Roberts were more of 140-145kph bowlers...Marshall too was of same pace but he was skiddy..maybe 147-148 clicks at times but 150+ consistently is too good to be true.

 

Only Thompson tbh looked like someone who can clock 145-150. Some of deliveries were literally too quick for the batters, not sure if it was due to reflexes but he looked genuinely quicker.

Thommo was a great athelete like lee,I think he was 160.

[Kron]

38 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Holdings and Roberts were more of 140-145kph bowlers...Marshall too was of same pace but he was skiddy..maybe 147-148 clicks at times but 150+ consistently is too good to be true.

 

Only Thompson tbh looked like someone who can clock 145-150. Some of deliveries were literally too quick for the batters, not sure if it was due to reflexes but he looked genuinely quicker.

Lol Marshall is 138 to 145 Max. My dad has some tapes. 

Roberts and holding 135 to 150 but average would mostly be 139 140. 

 

Thompson was like 145 average. 

 

From memory though Schulz and nante Hayward were rapid. Like close to express. 

 

145 to 150. But so wayward. Hayward that is. 

 

 

[Kron]

51 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

And Fast bowlers of the 1960s, like Hall, used to bowl at 100 mph whole day, run from the boundary line and fire used to come out of their noses as they bowled. 

Yea right. Sure they did. And then they all woke up. 

[singhvivek141]

13 minutes ago, Kron said:

Lol Marshall is 138 to 145 Max. My dad has some tapes. 

Roberts and holding 135 to 150 but average would mostly be 139 140. 

 

Thompson was like 145 average. 

 

From memory though Schulz and nante Hayward were rapid. Like close to express. 

 

145 to 150. But so wayward. Hayward that is. 

 

 

Yup, Marshall often gives me Shami kinda vibes.

Same height, skiddy off the pitch hence seems quicker than he really is.

Thomson at times looked fast, I think he clocked 147k in the speed test conducted in 1979 while Holding was 142k. 

[AKane]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

And Fast bowlers of the 1960s, like Hall, used to bowl at 100 mph whole day, run from the boundary line and fire used to come out of their noses as they bowled. 

One of the reasons Hall and Griffith and say the early Lillee were so feared was that the batsmen faced them without the protective gear.

 

If this happened without a helmet vs Hall or actually did happen vs Griffith with Contractor - the career will be over. Life will be in danger.

 

 

 

But in these days - it is just another ball. Not so in those days.

[tapandrun]

Educated guess and v.basic analytics :

 

Known 150+ kmph bowler -- Lee, Akthar, Tait, Wood

Who has touched or can bowl 150 kmph--Bond, Nortje, Rabada, Starc, Styen, Hayward, Sami, Pattinson, Milne, Furguson, Roach, Edwards, Best few others who had rather shorter career.

Presumed to be 150 kmph bowlers - Waqar, Thompson, Holding, Roberts, Donald

 

Who suffered some kind of back, shoulder , elbow injury -Bond,Tait, Wood, Nortje, Styen, Hayward, Pattinson, Milne, Furguson, Roach, Waqar ,Sami,Donald and there would be other too no sure of their records but these are prominent bowlers.

 

So there are soo many ~150 kmph bowlers who got injured regularly and never were same and then there were bowlers 5/6 six of them all bowling at the same time never suffered a career ending injury does that not surprise any1???

 

With so much knowledge, rest and recovery and care taken for bowlers still they get injured 140 + kmph bowlers get injured and then there are 5/6 in 80s with no professional medical support and not enough money to go around to take of med support were bowling high 140s/150s does not add up.

Yes there could be 1/2 freaks but not all.

 

 

Edited April 19 by tapandrun

[Malcolm Merlyn]

7 hours ago, Kron said:

Lol Marshall is 138 to 145 Max. My dad has some tapes. 

Roberts and holding 135 to 150 but average would mostly be 139 140. 

 

Thompson was like 145 average. 

 

From memory though Schulz and nante Hayward were rapid. Like close to express. 

 

145 to 150. But so wayward. Hayward that is. 

 

 

 

 

Roberts was measured at 159.5

Holding 157

Thomson 160.xx

 

 

[Kron]

32 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

 

 

Roberts was measured at 159.5

Holding 157

Thomson 160.xx

 

 

Talking about average speed man. 

[tapandrun]

There was a program "The world's Fastest bowler"aired on Aus TV , had Lillie, Thompson, Imran , Holding Croft etc. 

There was some good price money too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGcZRxE3kQA&t=10s&ab_channel=CorneredTiger1992

 

The result were :

Thompson- 147.9 (F), 142 (A).

Holding -141.3 (F), 135.3  (A).

Imran -139.7  (F), ,138.3  (A).

Croft-139.2 (F),, 134.7 (A).

Roberts -138.6 (F), ,135. 3 (A).

F- Fastest , A-Average 

 

They were to bowl 8balls and the fastest of 8 ball was fastest(F) and average of 8 ball was average (A)

The program didnt explain how those speeds were measured , but looks at the set -up, there was a blk and white square wallpaper sheet in the back ground.

That is a fairly reliable and low tech and low cost way of measuring speeds, u know the length of the square and then u throw and object and capture the time in between those squares. u have the distance travelled and the time taken to go to that distance and hence u can find the speeds =distance/time 

 

The background wall paper is not stretched to the length of the pitch so fair to assume they took a small sample may be couple of feet at max as the ball is hurdled downwards not in straight line.

These were the readings that came out, In the footage just look at them not trying to build any momentum in the run-up when it a competition (unless total gimmick).

Thompson was head and shoulders above the rest hence batters would think he is bowling at out of the world pace.

 And one would imagine the fastest ball would be the ones fuller in length not many of them were trying to bowl full

 

Edited April 20 by tapandrun

[Vijy]

9 hours ago, tapandrun said:

Educated guess and v.basic analytics :

 

Known 150+ kmph bowler -- Lee, Akthar, Tait, Wood

Who has touched or can bowl 150 kmph--Bond, Nortje, Rabada, Starc, Styen, Hayward, Sami, Pattinson, Milne, Furguson, Roach, Edwards, Best few others who had rather shorter career.

Presumed to be 150 kmph bowlers - Waqar, Thompson, Holding, Roberts, Donald

 

Who suffered some kind of back, shoulder , elbow injury -Bond,Tait, Wood, Nortje, Styen, Hayward, Pattinson, Milne, Furguson, Roach, Waqar ,Sami,Donald and there would be other too no sure of their records but these are prominent bowlers.

 

So there are soo many ~150 kmph bowlers who got injured regularly and never were same and then there were bowlers 5/6 six of them all bowling at the same time never suffered a career ending injury does that not surprise any1???

 

With so much knowledge, rest and recovery and care taken for bowlers still they get injured 140 + kmph bowlers get injured and then there are 5/6 in 80s with no professional medical support and not enough money to go around to take of med support were bowling high 140s/150s does not add up.

Yes there could be 1/2 freaks but not all.

 

 

wacky waqar was not regular 150s pre-injury. I followed him quite closely. it was his slingy action and reverse swing and his length that made him look that fast.

 

I would say that tyson might have been 150 in some of his balls, though it is dubious

[Vijy]

11 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

And Fast bowlers of the 1960s, like Hall, used to bowl at 100 mph whole day, run from the boundary line and fire used to come out of their noses as they bowled. 

don't forget larwood and tyson. they bowled 165+.

 

and above all, there was mohd. zahid who operated in the 170-180 kph range (source: trust me bro, i.e., Pak Passion)

[tapandrun]

6 minutes ago, Vijy said:

don't forget larwood and tyson. they bowled 165+.

 

and above all, there was mohd. zahid who operated in the 170-180 kph range (source: trust me bro, i.e., Pak Passion)

Pak had a bowler who played in test recently Ali, one day he was clocking ~150 kmph and SM was buzzing with that and next day he was nt event touching 140 on same speedometers, his action had nothing to say he was 145+ kmph bowler unless he has huge upper body strength.

 

In Recent PSL he was amongst top wkt taker never touched 140 kmph, 

 

Rauf was touching ~150 kmph v.often in PSL and speedometers in Pak but intnl he hardly came close to bowling 150 kmph , In 2019 where all Pak pacer gained pace.

Rauf starting clocking 150 kmph often and Shaheen too started getting into 145 kmph.