IPL ... Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners ....

[vishalvirsingh]

on indian flat pitches our indian trundlers are managing to beat/compete with aljari joseph,ferguson and mitchell starc.

 

this gives a beleif to indian selectors that natrajan ,sandeep sharma ,mohit sharma . harshal and unadkat can compete with starc ,ferguson , cummins etc.

 

on international pitches outside of india- india spearhead vinay kumar bowled 25+ overs in australia and did not get a single wicket.

 

this version of ipl is not improving indian pace bowlers for sure.

[Lone Wolf]

Umran needs to bowl full.  Seen it time & time again he is harder to hit when he bowls full & fast.  His short balls sit up to be hit.  Needs to mix it up. 

Steyn needs to give him some info.  I don't know if he understands English that much. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Lone Wolf

[MK55]

I don't understand how these guys dint have a fine leg on. I can bet my life Rana is never gonna hook a good bouncer at deep square leg lol.

Could have been 2 simple catches in the first over itself. What are these coaches there for? That's common sense.

 

Also, Umran needs to bowl more yorkers. In fact, he can even get away with full tosses if they are well-directed and fast. Also should be willing to try some slow deliveries. Not as much as Lockie lol but he should definitely try one such ball when the batters are lining up. The batters have to think that much extra and it gets a lot more difficult when they know that the bowler has got the slower delivery in his repertoire. Rana premeditated in almost 5 of his 6 deliveries that over.

He tried that in the last over and a set Runku struggled to time.  

 

[MK55]

6 hours ago, the don said:

Lockie furgusson easily hitting 150ks. 
Mark wood and Lockie are so much quicker than everyone else at the IPL

LOL Lockie barely touches 150 on a consistent basis. He has the tendency though to rip one very fast and his peak speed for that odd occasion can be very high. Not saying he's slow but certainly not in a different bracket.

Wood is consistent.  Rest (Nortje, Umran, Lockie, and Joseph at times) are 147-152 types (so far). If a bowler can bowl 150 in his first over itself, he surely can let it rip at 150 plus if he desires to. The quality of these batters is very high. So I don't think anyone is really focussing that much on peak pace. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by MK55

[the don]

2 hours ago, MK55 said:

LOL Lockie barely touches 150 on a consistent basis. He has the tendency though to rip one very fast and his peak speed for that odd occasion can be very high. Not saying he's slow but certainly not in a different bracket.

Wood is consistent.  Rest (Nortje, Umran, Lockie, and Joseph at times) are 147-152 types (so far). If a bowler can bowl 150 in his first over itself, he surely can let it rip at 150 plus if he desires to. The quality of these batters is very high. So I don't think anyone is really focussing that much on peak pace. 

A fit Lockie ks second only to Mark wood in terms of pace and has actually been an express bowler longer than wood. Wood’s transition is recent.

[MK55]

14 minutes ago, the don said:

A fit Lockie ks second only to Mark wood in terms of pace and has actually been an express bowler longer than wood. Wood’s transition is recent.

Well when was the last time he bowled 4 or more balls in an over over 150 for 2 consecutive matches in the last 5 years? 
This is his 6th IPL. I’ve never seen him do that. 
He’s usually in the 147-152 range (when fit) with lots of slow deliveries. And in important matches, he might let a few rip faster. And that is obviously express but not a different league altogether. What he did 5 years back is irrelevant. Talking about present.

[the don]

51 minutes ago, MK55 said:

Well when was the last time he bowled 4 or more balls in an over over 150 for 2 consecutive matches in the last 5 years? 
This is his 6th IPL. I’ve never seen him do that. 
He’s usually in the 147-152 range (when fit) with lots of slow deliveries. And in important matches, he might let a few rip faster. And that is obviously express but not a different league altogether. What he did 5 years back is irrelevant. Talking about present.

147-152 is as quick as it gets. 
That sort of average speed is rare.

[MK55]

2 hours ago, the don said:

147-152 is as quick as it gets. 
That sort of average speed is rare.

Obviously it’s rare. But the thing is I don’t see it any more rare than a quick spell of Nortje or any other bowler I had mentioned earlier when in rhythm. So no he’s not second to Wood if that’s what we’re talking about. 

[singhvivek141]

5 hours ago, the don said:

A fit Lockie ks second only to Mark wood in terms of pace and has actually been an express bowler longer than wood. Wood’s transition is recent.

Wood's pace has increased once he improved his run-up, arrival of Archer also played a big role as Archer was faster than Wood when he arrived on the scene which he took it as challenge.

 

Lockie is quick at times, but he often slips in late 130's to early 140's...in comparison Nortje and Wood are much more consistent while hitting the speeds.

 

[express bowling]

More than finding and getting excited by the quickest pacer ....  it is important to find or develop really quick pacers who have natural bounce, some movement and the desire to bowl in good areas as per the situation. 

[express bowling]

1)    If Umran wants a successful white ball career, he must develop a yorker and a slower ball. Just bowling 6 shorter deliveries at full pace will make him too predictable. 

 

2)    I am appalled to see no deep square leg / fine leg and no fine 3rd man with an express pacer bowling short. This was poor captaincy by Markram.

 

3)   Kartik Tyagi getting no games and Umran getting every game is unfair on Tyagi. He is almost as quick .. much more bouncy .. has a better yorker and bouncer .. and gets more movement.

Edited April 16, 2023 by express bowling

[the don]

3 hours ago, MK55 said:

Obviously it’s rare. But the thing is I don’t see it any more rare than a quick spell of Nortje or any other bowler I had mentioned earlier when in rhythm. So no he’s not second to Wood if that’s what we’re talking about. 

I meant in this tournament so far. 

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

1)    If Umran wants a successful white ball career, he must develop a yorker and a slower ball. Just bowling 6 shorter deliveries at full pace will make him too predictable. 

 

2)    I am appalled to see no deep square leg / fine leg and no fine 3rd man with an express pacer bowling short. This was poor captaincy by Markram.

 

3)   Kartik Tyagi getting no games and Umran getting every game is unfair on Tyagi. He is almost as quick .. much more bouncy .. has a better yorker and bouncer .. and gets more movement.

Umran at times give me Umesh's vibes...kinda brainless and just go through motions instead of planning differently. Umran does have a good yorker but he often forget to bowl that..yesterday the way Rana was backing up for short deliveries..one quick yorker at the stumps would have cleaned him up.

Such bowlers will need a constant guide on the field, not everyone is intelligent like Bumrah. But the senior bowler of SRH will ask him to slow down and bowl knuckle deliveries instead 

[Mesky99]

3 hours ago, express bowling said:

More than finding and getting excited by the quickest pacer ....  it is important to find or develop really quick pacers who have natural bounce, some movement and the desire to bowl in good areas as per the situation. 

I really don't think this will happen, all young pacers are badly managed and simply don't play enough to domestic cricket, it felt like in 2018/2019 we would possibly have the best young pacers playing international cricket, all from saini, prasidh, nagarkoti, mavi, Khaleel, deshpande, Yarra, thampi have all gone backward, tyagi in and out, sushant Mishra no where to be seen, hangaregekar has issues with run up, avesh mediocre, really not a single pacer could come and play for India right now. 

[MK55]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

1)    If Umran wants a successful white ball career, he must develop a yorker and a slower ball. Just bowling 6 shorter deliveries at full pace will make him too predictable. 

 

2)    I am appalled to see no deep square leg / fine leg and no fine 3rd man with an express pacer bowling short. This was poor captaincy by Markram.

 

3)   Kartik Tyagi getting no games and Umran getting every game is unfair on Tyagi. He is almost as quick .. much more bouncy .. has a better yorker and bouncer .. and gets more movement.

It will be unfair and send across a really bad signal if Umrans dropped too. He hasn’t really done bad apart from yesterday. Also keep in mind that Lockie was just as expensive with no wickets. Like Rana said after the match, those same bowlers will get him wickets next match. It’s not his problem that Tyagi is in the same side.

 

It was a no brainer to have a fine leg if their strategy was to attack Rana short. Sunil even pointed out during the over that it would have been 2 easy catches had they had a fielder there.

 

The thing is he has the full ball and the Yorker. We have seen him get so many good batters clean bowled. So obviously he has that. Seemed more like a strategy to bowl short and attack Rana at his body. 

What he needs to understand is that he needs to improvise and not be so static when things don’t go as per the ‘plan’ . One good Fast full ball would have had Rana. He needed one. The guy was giving him so much room. We saw him try 2 slow balls in the last over and they worked. So I’m sure Steyn would have talked to him during the strategic timeout. 
 

When you’re young and bowling fast, and when u see a batter who has the reputation against the short ball, and after u see him mistime those a couple of pull shots, he got carried away by his ego. U dint see the speeds drop. He was trying to bowl even quicker and get him. 
 

He just needs to be smarter. A few full balls n 1-2 slow balls, and a totally different game. He literally fed the same ball to a premeditating short ball hack of a batsman.

 

 

 

 

[express bowling]

13 minutes ago, Mesky99 said:

I really don't think this will happen, all young pacers are badly managed and simply don't play enough to domestic cricket, it felt like in 2018/2019 we would possibly have the best young pacers playing international cricket, all from saini, prasidh, nagarkoti, mavi, Khaleel, deshpande, Yarra, thampi have all gone backward, tyagi in and out, sushant Mishra no where to be seen, hangaregekar has issues with run up, avesh mediocre, really not a single pacer could come and play for India right now. 

 

True prospects for me are Tyagi, Sen, Harshit, Umran, Prasidh, Mohsin. Maybe Arjun too. 

 

Short guys without natural bounce are more likely to struggle than not, unless they have some exceptional quality like Shami's seam position. 

 

Mavi, Nagarkoti, Deshpsnde, Mishra, Thampi all lack natural bounce.

Edited April 15, 2023 by express bowling

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, MK55 said:

It will be unfair and send across a really bad signal if Umrans dropped too. He hasn’t really done bad apart from yesterday. Also keep in mind that Lockie was just as expensive with no wickets. Like Rana said after the match, those same bowlers will get him wickets next match. It’s not his problem that Tyagi is in the same side.

 

It was a no brainer to have a fine leg if their strategy was to attack Rana short. Sunil even pointed out during the over that it would have been 2 easy catches had they had a fielder there.

 

The thing is he has the full ball and the Yorker. We have seen him get so many good batters clean bowled. So obviously he has that. Seemed more like a strategy to bowl short and attack Rana at his body. 

What he needs to understand is that he needs to improvise and not be so static when things don’t go as per the ‘plan’ . One good Fast full ball would have had Rana. He needed one. The guy was giving him so much room. We saw him try 2 slow balls in the last over and they worked. So I’m sure Steyn would have talked to him during the strategic timeout. 
 

When you’re young and bowling fast, and when u see a batter who has the reputation against the short ball, and after u see him mistime those a couple of pull shots, he got carried away by his ego. U dint see the speeds drop. He was trying to bowl even quicker and get him. 
 

He just needs to be smarter. A few full balls n 1-2 slow balls, and a totally different game. He literally fed the same ball to a premeditating short ball hack of a batsman.

 

 

 

 

Tyagi has a much higher ceiling than Umran will ever have as he has natural bounce. 

 

If there is 1 pacer I want to see from India after Bumrah, it is Tyagi.  

 

It is far more unfair to not give him any game.

 

Ideally, Tyagi should replace Natarajan but will SRH do it  ?

[MK55]

9 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Tyagi has a much higher ceiling than Umran will ever have as he has natural bounce. 

 

If there is 1 pacer I want to see from India after Bumrah, it is Tyagi.  

 

It is far more unfair to not give him any game.

 

Ideally, Tyagi should replace Natarajan but will SRH do it  ?

yes,  it’s unfair and I want him in the side. So u want Umran dropped after that over and get Tyagi instead? So sacrifice one guy for another? And then we go about saying we don’t encourage young quicks in this country. And yes they both should be given opportunities by replacing some other guy but we know that’s not gonna happen.
 

Also just how many overs has Tyagi even bowled? Not just IPL, basically in any format. Is the guy even fit to bowl express without breaking down perennially? That remains to be seen and the only way to see that is if he remains fit and then given chances.

 

Just to clarify, I definitely want him in the side. In those few overs I’ve seen him all these years in the IPL, he had potential. 
 

Someone like Marco Jansen is a different proposition. The guy is basically 6-10 and still bowls 142-143k. Need that kind of height to make a real impact. 
 

 

 

 

[express bowling]

Another trundler, V Vijaykumar, debuts for RCB.

 

They are everywhere !

 

Where is Avinash Singh Manhas ?

[Lone Wolf]

28 minutes ago, MK55 said:

It will be unfair and send across a really bad signal if Umrans dropped too. He hasn’t really done bad apart from yesterday. Also keep in mind that Lockie was just as expensive with no wickets. Like Rana said after the match, those same bowlers will get him wickets next match. It’s not his problem that Tyagi is in the same side.

 

It was a no brainer to have a fine leg if their strategy was to attack Rana short. Sunil even pointed out during the over that it would have been 2 easy catches had they had a fielder there.

 

The thing is he has the full ball and the Yorker. We have seen him get so many good batters clean bowled. So obviously he has that. Seemed more like a strategy to bowl short and attack Rana at his body. 

What he needs to understand is that he needs to improvise and not be so static when things don’t go as per the ‘plan’ . One good Fast full ball would have had Rana. He needed one. The guy was giving him so much room. We saw him try 2 slow balls in the last over and they worked. So I’m sure Steyn would have talked to him during the strategic timeout. 
 

When you’re young and bowling fast, and when u see a batter who has the reputation against the short ball, and after u see him mistime those a couple of pull shots, he got carried away by his ego. U dint see the speeds drop. He was trying to bowl even quicker and get him. 
 

He just needs to be smarter. A few full balls n 1-2 slow balls, and a totally different game. He literally fed the same ball to a premeditating short ball hack of a batsman.

 

 

 

 

I think it was brain dead from Captain & management to ask Umran to keep bowling short in PP of all time.  Yes Rana has trouble with short stuff but first they didn't get field placement right & then they asked him to keep bowling short with no protection for a miscued. 

He did induce two false shots but since it was PP they got to the boundary. 

Also over no 6 is about damage control as every batting side goes hard in final PP over.  It is hardest one to bowl. 

It was complete shambles from SRH. 

Credit to Umran he came back nicely in the end.  Rinku was struggling against him.