IPL ... Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners ....

[Mesky99]

18 hours ago, Jay said:

Nha I understand. Not directed at you at all bud. This is directed at the inbred here who goes about touting his Muslim brethren as the real pacers of india lol. People like him are a disgrace to the Muslim community, who actually happen to have plenty of genuinely nice people, contrary to how they are portrayed by the media. 

 

Watch the people he supports lol. He only praises avesh khan, umran, shami, km asif etc rofl lmao. 

 

I think the idea behind is to claim some sort of genetic superiority amongst Muslims in pace bowling. They would claim these bowlers are one of their own I.e paxtani. That's his insipid asinine reasoning. 

 

Taattu doesn't realize india have plenty of pace options. Pace alone doesn't mean squat. You need bouncers and yorkers. 

 

Umran has to first perform in red ball before even coming close to getting picked. 

 

The ATG jasprit *ing bumrah also played ranji and that's the main reason he was picked for red ball. Averaged 24 in those indian pitches conducive to spin. That's genius. 

I ain't even a muslim but a Hindu, you come across as jingoistic hyperbole nationalist who at best would potray his fake nationalism on forums but in action you just a meek little internet warrior, since I have been here on this app I have been getting nothing but abuses from you over harmless debates anyway my point remains, India has never been a pace bowling country, we are still far from it and yes genetics play a part in performance. Even today cricket at the higher level in India is played by a few urban folks, one or two rural or small town boys make it big here and there, communities who could produce quick bowlers do not play cricket, Varun is a Goan origin lad, his staple diet from a young age would have been very different compared to a average Indian, bumrah is a freak. 

[Mesky99]

22 hours ago, express bowling said:

The thing with Indian selectors is that, they are trying to pick quick bowlers for test matches.

 

If we look at the pacers picked for the test series against England, they were Bumrah, Shami, Umesh, Siraj, Ishant, Shardul, Prasidh, Avesh and Arzan. Shardul was there for his all round skills and Arzan because he is a left armer. All the others can bowl 145 k+ deliveries.

 

Now compare this to our white ball pacers being picked. We often see a squad full of medium pacers playing for India, with no fast bowler, if Bumrah is rested.

 

This mindset needs to change. We need some quick bowlers for white ball cricket too. Pacer's who can bowl.quick accurate yorkers and some slower balls too, lime Siraj and Avesh, need to be brought in our white ball squad.

 

Another aspect is the ineffective handling of the graduation of the successful U19 pacers to the senior level. Not a single one from the last 6 years have become finished products yet and some have lost pace like Mavi. This aspect needs to be looked into. 

You now how things work out in the junior level, selection 80% is on merit, there will be 3 guys atleast who would be qouta picks, the u19 world cup in 2020 had a similar trend, those 3 qouta picks are there only to make up numbers and keep certain strong associations happy, most junior selectors do not watch games and only go by numbers, there is zero scouting, certain association are still ruling the roast eventhough talent from those regions has dried up thou they still hold guard when it comes networking with higher officials, Rajasthan with a ad hoc committee in place was still churning out better fast bowlers than up, karnataka, bengal combined, these are states which have dedicated cricket infarstructure in every district.

Edited October 4, 2021 by Mesky99

[rkt.india]

11 hours ago, express bowling said:

The thing with Indian selectors is that, they are trying to pick quick bowlers for test matches.

 

If we look at the pacers picked for the test series against England, they were Bumrah, Shami, Umesh, Siraj, Ishant, Shardul, Prasidh, Avesh and Arzan. Shardul was there for his all round skills and Arzan because he is a left armer. All the others can bowl 145 k+ deliveries.

 

Now compare this to our white ball pacers being picked. We often see a squad full of medium pacers playing for India, with no fast bowler, if Bumrah is rested.

 

This mindset needs to change. We need some quick bowlers for white ball cricket too. Pacer's who can bowl.quick accurate yorkers and some slower balls too, lime Siraj and Avesh, need to be brought in our white ball squad.

 

Another aspect is the ineffective handling of the graduation of the successful U19 pacers to the senior level. Not a single one from the last 6 years have become finished products yet and some have lost pace like Mavi. This aspect needs to be looked into. 

Don't know why Mavi is bowling within himself and not bowling all out. Probably vary of injuries. He has faced multiple back fractures.

[Jay]

1 hour ago, Mesky99 said:

I ain't even a muslim but a Hindu, you come across as jingoistic hyperbole nationalist who at best would potray his fake nationalism on forums but in action you just a meek little internet warrior, since I have been here on this app I have been getting nothing but abuses from you over harmless debates anyway my point remains, India has never been a pace bowling country, we are still far from it and yes genetics play a part in performance.

Toughness, hard work, fast twitch fibres play a role in fast bowling. 

Lol at me being jingoistic. Dude I would bleed for the country unlike your shoaib bhai who just stands at the border. 

 

I have done a year of reserve training in the army in Australia of all *ing places. You think I wouldn't do it for india hahaha. 

 

India has ever plenty of fast bowlers. plenty of strong guys. Plenty of powerfully built men In the village areas. They just don't get opportunities. 

1 hour ago, Mesky99 said:

 

Even today cricket at the higher level in India is played by a few urban folks, one or two rural or small town boys make it big here and there, communities who could produce quick bowlers do not play cricket, Varun is a Goan origin lad, his staple diet from a young age would have been very different compared to a average Indian, bumrah is a freak. 

 

[Mesky99]

12 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

It depends more on conditions than genes or diet,Aaron struggles even in domestic cricket.With the type of pitches and heat and humidity it's not easy,pak has better climate for fast bowling, even the pitches there are like UAE .

Pakistani pitches are back breaking, the pitch in Rawalpindi is literally a cement road, mindset here is the key, every Pak pacer regardless his performance will always strive to bowl fast at all levels, very few Pak pacers compromise on speed, here in india it's different, young pacers who have the extra ability to bowl quick would soon be surrounded with a bunch of medium pacers who would take a truck load of wickets in under age group cricket on help tracks, the few pacers who could bowl quick would see no incentive carrying on bowling quick and eventually would adapt bowling at a lesser speed, all this genetics, diet is secondary, I am just trolling a few hyperbole idiots here, example abhimanyu mithun is strongly built, started gyming in his teens was a discuss thrower before he started playing cricket, has all the attributes to bowl fast, never has he pushed himself to do so, he has been around trundlers like Arvind, Vinay Kumar, binny all his career seen them succeed bowling 125kph on helpful pitches, mithun did the same all throughout his career bowling 130kph, he bent his back in Ipl 2010 a couple of times and was hitting 142kph, with a few tweaks here and there in his action he could have sustained good speeds, he was never pushed to do so and that has been the case all through our cricketing history. Mindset has let us down, bowling technique wise I think Indian bowlers have always been top notch, seam presentation to Indian seamers are impressive.

 

[Mesky99]

18 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

Ankola too couldn't start with Mumbai ,made it only after his debut for India. They have set the pattern for Indian cricket, everyone wants batsmen.

Ankola made his Mumbai debut way before his international debut, ramankant tiny desai was quickish, there was a few other quick bowlers Raju Kulkarni, salgaonkar was one of the quickest around during his time

[Austin 3:!6]

India has never been a fast bowling country is not a factually correct statement. Yes most of our bowlers dont strive for pace madness like our padosis do but that does not mean we dont produce fast bowlers. Bumrah himself has better record in SENA countries than any bowler in Pak history.

 

Also, what has pace given to Pakistan anyway? Not a single bowler to take 200 test wickets since Waqar Younis who himself relied heavily on tampered balls. I would anyday take a bowler like Zaheer Khan than someone who is just striving for pace like Sami.

 

Pakistan took their tear away young fast bowler Naseem Shah on Australia tour saying they will see fear in the eyes. What happen? Warner was laughing and scoring triple for fun. Ricky Ponting even said 'Not sure I have seen worst bowling attack in our shores' Even T.Natarajan with his military medium outbowled Shah when India toured there next.

 

Our posters need to stop being fascinated with Pakistan and their mythical fast bowlers. Infact their 2 best bowlers are Shaheen and Abbas who are medium pace at best.

[Mesky99]

This is terrific stuff regarding Indian pace bowlers of the 90s, a old Google group chat from 1996, flick through it quite hilarious. https://groups.google.com/g/rec.sport.cricket/c/R2rA7QMM0Ug

Edited October 4, 2021 by Mesky99

[Mesky99]

12 hours ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

India has never been a fast bowling country is not a factually correct statement. Yes most of our bowlers dont strive for pace madness like our padosis do but that does not mean we dont produce fast bowlers. Bumrah himself has better record in SENA countries than any bowler in Pak history.

 

Also, what has pace given to Pakistan anyway? Not a single bowler to take 200 test wickets since Waqar Younis who himself relied heavily on tampered balls. I would anyday take a bowler like Zaheer Khan than someone who is just striving for pace like Sami.

 

Pakistan took their tear away young fast bowler Naseem Shah on Australia tour saying they will see fear in the eyes. What happen? Warner was laughing and scoring triple for fun. Ricky Ponting even said 'Not sure I have seen worst bowling attack in our shores' Even T.Natarajan with his military medium outbowled Shah when India toured there next.

 

Our posters need to stop being fascinated with Pakistan and their mythical fast bowlers. Infact their 2 best bowlers are Shaheen and Abbas who are medium pace at best.

Only three Indian pacers have taken more than 250 test wickets, south Africa have had 5 bowlers to take more than 300 test wickets, including Kallis with 291, rabada with 213 and philander with 224. 

[Austin 3:!6]

2 minutes ago, Mesky99 said:

Only three Indian pacers have taken more than 250 test wickets, south Africa have had 5 bowlers to take more than 300 test wickets, including Kallis with 291, rabada with 213 and philander with 224. 

Interesting but I thought we were drawing parallels with Pakistan and how much superior fast bowling culture they have. How smartly you are shifting it to South Africa now when given the facts

 

So just to be clear, with all the great phaassttt bowling gene and culture they have, both India and Pakistan has got 3 bowlers each side with 250 test wicket club. And Kapil Paaji got more test wickets than any Pak fast bowler in history.

 

Kya faayda phir aise tez bowling karke. I understand the jazbaa and junoon angle but result bhi chahiye.

[Mesky99]

12 hours ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Interesting but I thought we were drawing parallels with Pakistan and how much superior fast bowling culture they have. How smartly you are shifting it to South Africa now when given the facts

 

So just to be clear, with all the great phaassttt bowling gene and culture they have, both India and Pakistan has got 3 bowlers each side with 250 test wicket club. And Kapil Paaji got more test wickets than any Pak fast bowler in history.

 

Kya faayda phir aise tez bowling karke. I understand the jazbaa and junoon angle but result bhi chahiye.

There is something called averages, strike rates. Shoaib akthar was superior to all our pace bowlers, there is no comparison at all, maybe when bumrah finishes his career he may have better stats than waqar, but my point remains until now we have never had pace bowlers, Pakistan had guys like Mohammad Zahid who barely played. Asif would have been a veteran if not for his off field antics, even a stop gap pacer like Gul was good enough to be India's lead pace bowler in the early 2010s. 

[Austin 3:!6]

5 minutes ago, Mesky99 said:

There is something called averages, strike rates. Shoaib akthar was superior to all our pace bowlers, there is no comparison at all, maybe when bumrah finishes his career he may have better stats than waqar, but my point remains until now we have never had pace bowlers, Pakistan had guys like Mohammad Zahid who barely played. Asif would have been a veteran if not for his off field antics, even a stop gap pacer like Gul was good enough to be India's lead pace bowler in the early 2010s. 

Shoaib Akhtar started his career in 1999 and by 2005 his career was over. He hardly played any cricket since then. Same was the case with Waqar Younis, whose peak was only for few years. What is the point of low average if you dont have longevity? Kam kheloge to avg low hoga hi na?

 

And who told you Shoaib Akhtar was superior than all our fast bowlers..lol. You are clearly in Jazbaa Junoon mode...so not thinking rationally. Ishant Sharma is a more accomplished test bowler than Akhtar.

 

As I said with all those Zahids, Guls and criminals like Asif's in the world, Kapil Paaji is on the top of the tree in wickets column. And both the team has 3 bowlers each with 250+ test wickets.

 

Absolutely nothing that India needs to learn from Pakistan.

 

 

[Suhaan]

18 minutes ago, Mesky99 said:

There is something called averages, strike rates. Shoaib akthar was superior to all our pace bowlers, there is no comparison at all, maybe when bumrah finishes his career he may have better stats than waqar, but my point remains until now we have never had pace bowlers, Pakistan had guys like Mohammad Zahid who barely played. Asif would have been a veteran if not for his off field antics, even a stop gap pacer like Gul was good enough to be India's lead pace bowler in the early 2010s. 

Abe joker ,you have spent so much time on google to research on Indian cricket to put on Indian veil to look nice but there lies a insecure poor paxtani inside.

Gul was a good bowler in lois,what has he done in tests,he wasn't even sidelined for match fixing,what else had stopped him to take atleast 200 wickets

Dont try to over act,i know being a paxtani and admitting it in some foreign platforms takes a toll on guys like you,out of shame you introduce yourself as Indian,no issues,brace Indianism,but don't talk nonsense

[Mesky99]

12 hours ago, Suhaan said:

Abe joker ,you have spent so much time on google to research on Indian cricket to put on Indian veil to look nice but there lies a insecure poor paxtani inside.

Gul was a good bowler in lois,what has he done in tests,he wasn't even sidelined for match fixing,what else had stopped him to take atleast 200 wickets

Dont try to over act,i know being a paxtani and admitting it in some foreign platforms takes a toll on guys like you,out of shame you introduce yourself as Indian,no issues,brace Indianism,but don't talk nonsense

I ain't no Pakistani, you need to come out with something better now. Talk facts, Gul would have walked into the Indian team when we had a half fit rp Singh brought in 2011 partnering the likes of pk, sreesanth and ishant. Gul bowled much of his career on those early 2010s uae pitches, Junaid to did not do to bad.

[Mesky99]

13 hours ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Shoaib Akhtar started his career in 1999 and by 2005 his career was over. He hardly played any cricket since then. Same was the case with Waqar Younis, whose peak was only for few years. What is the point of low average if you dont have longevity? Kam kheloge to avg low hoga hi na?

 

And who told you Shoaib Akhtar was superior than all our fast bowlers..lol. You are clearly in Jazbaa Junoon mode...so not thinking rationally. Ishant Sharma is a more accomplished test bowler than Akhtar.

 

As I said with all those Zahids, Guls and criminals like Asif's in the world, Kapil Paaji is on the top of the tree in wickets column. And both the team has 3 bowlers each with 250+ test wickets.

 

Absolutely nothing that India needs to learn from Pakistan.

 

 

Akthar averages around 24, ishant 32, at one point ishant averaged 36 ish. No ishant is not more accomplished than akthar, not even close. Akhtar in 46 test matches has more 5 wicket hauls than ishant who has played over 100 tests, at best ishant is a work horse with a decent peak from 2016 onwards, akthar could take the pitch out of equation, I would say srinath would have had a better career than akthar only if he had abled support from the other end, he was a complete bowler but lacked the killer instinct.

[Suhaan]

8 minutes ago, Mesky99 said:

I ain't no Pakistani, you need to come out with something better now. Talk facts, Gul would have walked into the Indian team when we had a half fit rp Singh brought in 2011 partnering the likes of pk, sreesanth and ishant. Gul bowled much of his career on those early 2010s uae pitches, Junaid to did not do to bad.

A typical paxtani shifting goalposts ,uae pitches etc

You need to come out of the veil show your true self,infact not needed such a poor attempt

[Mesky99]

11 hours ago, Suhaan said:

A typical paxtani shifting goalposts ,uae pitches etc

You need to come out of the veil show your true self,infact not needed such a poor attempt

Those UAE pitches were literally dead. I ain't hiding my identity, we can meet up if you want in Mumbai, I'll take around the maidans and introduce you to some young fast bowlers.

[Suhaan]

1 hour ago, Mesky99 said:

Those UAE pitches were literally dead. I ain't hiding my identity, we can meet up if you want in Mumbai, I'll take around the maidans and introduce you to some young fast bowlers.

So nice of you

[Austin 3:!6]

1 hour ago, Mesky99 said:

Akthar averages around 24, ishant 32, at one point ishant averaged 36 ish. No ishant is not more accomplished than akthar, not even close. Akhtar in 46 test matches has more 5 wicket hauls than ishant who has played over 100 tests, at best ishant is a work horse with a decent peak from 2016 onwards, akthar could take the pitch out of equation, I would say srinath would have had a better career than akthar only if he had abled support from the other end, he was a complete bowler but lacked the killer instinct.

Again you are falling back on average bcoz you have nothing substantial to debate. Shoaib was not good enough both fitness or skill wise to play more than 46 tests. Its not very difficult to maintain a healthy avg if your sample size is small. Ishant has played 104 tests and still going strong. There is absolutely no doubt Ishant is a much more accomplished test match bowler than Akhtar.

[Mosher]

Avesh hits Faf's gloves with a nasty short ball