Playing 2 spinners “overseas” a concern

[Lord]

5 minutes ago, Vijy said:

I agree that prediction isn't an exact science, but in some pitches it's reasonably evident IMO. Both "express bowling" and I had speculated that Ashwin would be more effective in 3rd test than 2nd test, even before 2nd test had begun.

 

Again, let me reiterate that one can be wrong in some cases.

 

did you also predict that pacers except Thakur would be this trash? Ashwin actually outbowled them in 2nd dig.

 

One has to take chances with a reasonably balanced attack. 5 pacers is an overkill on most surfaces.

[Vijy]

16 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

did you also predict that pacers except Thakur would be this trash? Ashwin actually outbowled them in 2nd dig.

 

One has to take chances with a reasonably balanced attack. 5 pacers is an overkill on most surfaces.

That is correct, 5 pacers is overkill on most surfaces. But not on all surfaces: I think the 2nd test was one of the exceptions. And this is not hindsight since there was some discussion about this even before the 2nd test began.

 

Ashwin should play 3rd test, and he will do so. there is some chance for spinners to do well on that pitch if past record is anything to go by.

[Adamant]

Ashwin shouldn't play the next match. That will only cause damage to his stats and reputation especially after the Einstein level interview he had prior to this tour. 

On this tour he has picked 3 wickets, 2 of them being Rabada and Ngidi, obviously the worst bowler by output amongst the 5 we played. 

Doesn't matter how brilliant he bowled if he didn't pick  wickets. 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Adamant

[Lord]

19 hours ago, Vijy said:

That is correct, 5 pacers is overkill on most surfaces. But not on all surfaces: I think the 2nd test was one of the exceptions. And this is not hindsight since there was some discussion about this even before the 2nd test began.

 

Ashwin should play 3rd test, and he will do so. there is some chance for spinners to do well on that pitch if past record is anything to go by.

 

SA also played 4 pacers.

 

Ashwin could only have been replaced by a batsman.Else batting will be took weak.

 

In that case our bowling effort will remain same.

[vvvslaxman]

2 hours ago, Lord said:

 

SA also played 4 pacers.

 

Ashwin could only have been replaced by a batsman.Else batting will be took weak.

 

In that case our bowling effort will remain same.

 

Last time we had 5 pacers because Pandya was in place of a spinner. Thakur is still considered as a bowler who can bat.  Pujara/Rahane shocked us by scoring runs. Probably that was a dead give away pitch got easier to bat on. Our batsmen posted a subpar total in both the innings. Atleast 100 runs short in each innings.

[Clarke]

On 1/8/2022 at 10:07 PM, Lord said:

 

did you also predict that pacers except Thakur would be this trash? Ashwin actually outbowled them in 2nd dig.

 

One has to take chances with a reasonably balanced attack. 5 pacers is an overkill on most surfaces.

 

Disagree, its actually absurd for any surface! Four pacers is the most one can expect on any track. If those 4 aren't able to get the opposition out in a day or so, then either the track isn't as helpful or they're not doing their job well enough. 

 

No freakin team plays 5 seamers, only on cricket forums these nonsensical ideas come up.

 

What happens when Ashwin & Jadeja lose their effectiveness at home, will we play 4 spinners or maybe 5 including them instead of playing better spinners/bowlers ?

[Vijy]

On 1/10/2022 at 12:55 AM, Clarke said:

 

Disagree, its actually absurd for any surface! Four pacers is the most one can expect on any track. If those 4 aren't able to get the opposition out in a day or so, then either the track isn't as helpful or they're not doing their job well enough. 

 

No freakin team plays 5 seamers, only on cricket forums these nonsensical ideas come up.

 

What happens when Ashwin & Jadeja lose their effectiveness at home, will we play 4 spinners or maybe 5 including them instead of playing better spinners/bowlers ?

It's true that 4 pacers should do the job. If there are 5 pacers, the 5th bowler will almost always be a batting AR who acts as a change-up for the main 4 bowlers. All-pace attacks are not so uncommon. I remember SA doing this in the 90s, and similarly NZ have done it recently, I think - with Grandhomme playing the role of 5th pacer. It's dependent on the conditions.

[Clarke]

2 hours ago, Vijy said:

It's true that 4 pacers should do the job. If there are 5 pacers, the 5th bowler will almost always be a batting AR who acts as a change-up for the main 4 bowlers. All-pace attacks are not so uncommon. I remember SA doing this in the 90s, and similarly NZ have done it recently, I think - with Grandhomme playing the role of 5th pacer. It's dependent on the conditions.

 

I can agree to some extent. That 5th "pacer" plays for his batting abilities, the bowling is a bonus. Even if there's another option who's somewhat better in batting and bowls spin part time, I'd go with that. I'm fine with a support act for 4 quicks, just that the primary aspect of the fifth guy has to be batting. There's also the over rate in our case, better to have a Jadeja/Ashwin run through overs than some part time seamer. 

 

I sometimes get a feeling that the key aspect of scoring more runs than the opposition is forgotten in this endless pursuit of phaassht bowling. Ditto with the discussions on 6th bowling option in LOIs. 

 

Tell you what, if we had guys like Kohli & Rohit rolling their arm like Sachin, Viru & Sourav, we wouldn't have this debate. 

Edited January 12, 2022 by Clarke

[vvvslaxman]

2 hours ago, Clarke said:

 

I can agree to some extent. That 5th "pacer" plays for his batting abilities, the bowling is a bonus. Even if there's another option who's somewhat better in batting and bowls spin part time, I'd go with that. I'm fine with a support act for 4 quicks, just that the primary aspect of the fifth guy has to be batting. There's also the over rate in our case, better to have a Jadeja/Ashwin run through overs than some part time seamer. 

 

I sometimes get a feeling that the key aspect of scoring more runs than the opposition is forgotten in this endless pursuit of phaassht bowling. Ditto with the discussions on 6th bowling option in LOIs. 

 

Tell you what, if we had guys like Kohli & Rohit rolling their arm like Sachin, Viru & Sourav, we wouldn't have this debate. 

 

 

When we had Pandya we played 5 seamers at the Wanderers and won the Test.  4 seamers + 1 fast bowling all rounder instead of 4 seamers + 1 spin bowling all rounder. But it is hard to predict which pitch will become batsman friendly especially in SENA. In NZ pitches tend to become flatter as the game goes on. Fast bowling is not easy there.

[Lord]

8 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

 

When we had Pandya we played 5 seamers at the Wanderers and won the Test.  4 seamers + 1 fast bowling all rounder instead of 4 seamers + 1 spin bowling all rounder. But it is hard to predict which pitch will become batsman friendly especially in SENA. In NZ pitches tend to become flatter as the game goes on. Fast bowling is not easy there.

Joburg was too much pace friendly.Also Pandya was good enough to bat at 7. Thakur isnt there yet sadly

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

Joburg was too much pace friendly.Also Pandya was good enough to bat at 7. Thakur isnt there yet sadly

 

With Shami in the side we need an extra cushion always. He is an injury candidate.

[zen]

Hoping that the "spinner" at least picks up a wkt in the 4th inning 

[zen]

Ashwin’s spin in SA 2022 

 

Avg 61, SR 128 … Just picked up 3 wkts in 3 Tests

 

One of the biggest spin flop shows (no rank turner, no honey) 

Edited January 14, 2022 by zen