Playing 2 spinners “overseas” a concern

[zen]

I recall reading somewhere that Gavaskar implied that Ind could play 2 spinners in WTC final as conditions would be hot and dry (weather forecast may present a different picture).

 

Last time when Ind played at Rose Bowl, Mooen did well against India but these overseas spinners are used to not be over reliant on rank turners. 

 

As many of you know about my reservations against Indian spinners (unless a mystery one or a good leg spinner) esp. since 1990 (I am not sure that they would be successful even in India if not for “those” pitches). Indian spinners could be another reason why I prefer to watch tests overseas (you get to see less of them). 
 

If conditions are as Gavaskar describes (ignoring the weather report), may be there is a justification, but the thought of playing two spinners overseas (at the expense of the 4th quality seamer, giving the team more chances of one of the 4 seamers (v one of 3) having a great day in these conditions) is a concern!

Edited June 16, 2021 by zen

[Lord]

both spinners have been good overseas for a while now.They aren't condition dependent

 

It should have been done way before.

 

Also both offer batting depth which our main seamers don't

[zen]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

both spinners have been good overseas for a while now.They aren't condition dependent

 

It should have been done way before.

 

Also both offer batting depth which our main seamers don't

[prudent_kreeda]

Forecast shows rain & Cloud cover mostly .

18th  - 94% cloud cover 

19th  - 34% cloud cover 

20th   - 76% cloud cover 

21st   - 95% cloud cover 

4 days of this weather is enough for a result. What 2 spinners will do in these conditions ?

 

[AuxiliA]

Jadeja-Ashwin aren't just spinners. They are all-rounders. I have more faith in Jadeja's batting than Vihari's. Ashwin isn't far behind either. 

 

Jadeja 2.0 can play as a batsman alone in our lower middle order. And Ashwin can be much more useful than a 4th seamer who can't bat. 

[zen]

2 minutes ago, prudent_kreeda said:

Forecast shows rain & Cloud cover mostly .

18th  - 94% cloud cover 

19th  - 34% cloud cover 

20th   - 76% cloud cover 

21st   - 95% cloud cover 

4 days of this weather is enough for a result. What 2 spinners will do in these conditions ?

 

If the forecast holds true, I do not know from where Gavaskar’ hot and dry conditions came from 

[Lord]

8 minutes ago, zen said:

 

Except Ashwin the 'outside Asia' averages are similar.Its not thier fault they are so good at home.Bhajji averages 30 at even home

 

Even Ashwin has improved overseas now as we saw in Aus.He has a big role to play

 

Also I'm talking of combined effect with spinners being support bowlers.

[Lord]

9 minutes ago, prudent_kreeda said:

Forecast shows rain & Cloud cover mostly .

18th  - 94% cloud cover 

19th  - 34% cloud cover 

20th   - 76% cloud cover 

21st   - 95% cloud cover 

4 days of this weather is enough for a result. What 2 spinners will do in these conditions ?

 

 

save our asses after top order is blown apart

[sandeep]

sure, but Jadeja isn't just a spinner, he's averaging 40+ with the bat, and is the only 'allround' option available.  

 

If NZ did not have so many lefty bats, and a known weakness against Ashwin, then it would be simple.  As it is, Ash's spot in the XI is by no means a lock, you may yet see him make way for a Shami/Siraj.  

 

 

[zen]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Except Ashwin the 'outside Asia' averages are similar.Its not thier fault they are so good at home.Bhajji averages 30 at even home

 

Even Ashwin has improved overseas now as we saw in Aus.He has a big role to play

 

Also I'm talking of combined effect with spinners being support bowlers.

Buddy, I have done various analysis including how other Ind spinners have done 

 

As I said, the decision to play 2 spinners should depend upon conditions 

[Lord]

1 minute ago, sandeep said:

sure, but Jadeja isn't just a spinner, he's averaging 40+ with the bat, and is the only 'allround' option available.  

 

If NZ did not have so many lefty bats, and a known weakness against Ashwin, then it would be simple.  As it is, Ash's spot in the XI is by no means a lock, you may yet see him make way for a Shami/Siraj.  

 

 

 

That would mean Ishant at 8.Not happening

[Lord]

1 minute ago, zen said:

Buddy, I have done various analysis including how other Ind spinners have done 

 

As I said, the decision to play 2 spinners should depend upon conditions 

 

If its a greentop,Thakur gets a go or you can go with extra batsman

 

Everything else better bowler should play which is a spinner.

 

 

[zen]

Just now, Lord said:

 

If its a greentop,Thakur gets a go or you can go with extra batsman

 

Everything else better bowler should play which is a spinner.

Let’s not make assumptions … 

[Lord]

Just now, zen said:

Let’s not make assumptions … 

 

Which assumption?

[zen]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

 

Which assumption?

A spinner is a better bowler when these guys need rank turners to even look good

 

Also read the last paragraph in the OP where I have said it should depend upon conditions 

[Sean Bradley]

I would absolutely play them, Kiwis are not that good against the spinners, and pitches in England from past 5 years or so do have something to offer for them, and if its a shoot out between Vihari & Jadeja, I would go with Jadeja anytime anywhere, also remember Jadejas incredible fielding ability, that Smith Run out  in Australia came at a very crucial moment, Jadeja is at the peak of his Career, and Peak of any player shouldnt be wasted, because they can turn a game on its head. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Sean Bradley

[Lone Wolf]

Playing both spinners is crucial against Kiwis not only coz of the venue plus we saw they pretty much handled English pace battery with rather ease.  It was clear England missed a top quality spinner. 

 

We had to prepare rank turners at home recently coz of the shocking defeat to Eng in Chennai & non availability of our premier Home bound pace attack of Shami & Umesh.  

 

 

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, zen said:

A spinner is a better bowler when these guys need rank turners to even look good

 

Also read the last paragraph in the OP where I have said it should depend upon conditions 

 

That's what called an assumption.And a lazy one 

 

Both did well in Aus without rank turners.In both this tour and 2018-19 one.

 

Ashwin was our 2nd best bowler in Wellington Test.Jadeja was good in other Test too

 

Ashwin was decent in Eng too.

 

More importantly they give us batting depth.And in Jaddu's case fielding positive too

 

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Playing both spinners is crucial against Kiwis not only coz of the venue plus we saw they pretty much handled English pace battery with rather ease.  It was clear England missed a top quality spinner. 

 

We had to prepare rank turners at home recently coz of the shocking defeat to Eng in Chennai & non availability of our premier Home bound pace attack of Shami & Umesh.  

 

 

 

And Jadeja.

 

 

[zen]

15 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

That's what called an assumption.And a lazy one 

 

Both did well in Aus without rank turners.In both this tour and 2018-19 one.

 

Ashwin was our 2nd best bowler in Wellington Test.Jadeja was good in other Test too

 

Ashwin was decent in Eng too.

 

More importantly they give us batting depth.And in Jaddu's case fielding positive too

 

Buddy,  Kuldeep and Sunder, along with probably even Vihari, have done well in Aus too 

 

Proposition is simple - if conditions are how like Gavaskar describes, playing 2 spinners may have a case 

 

If not (esp. in cloudy and rainy conditions), Ind would  need the 4th seamer (all good quality bowlers)… Playing Jadeja (or Ashwin) at 7, if they are batting well, is ok and a different discussion 

Edited June 16, 2021 by zen