Aadhar services - What's the point of calling it services

[Trichromatic]

8 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Old discussion, will have to dig back, will do it. As I said, we are repeating it

 

Ok, thanks a lot. Will wait for it.

[Trichromatic]

Those who think privacy is joke - do you think that BJP and Modi were stupid in raising this concern and was creating a roadblock just for sake of it. 

 

@urbestfriend @bharathh 

 

 

[bharathh]

Privacy is not a joke. However, the way that it exists at this point of time is. Either we are worried about privacy or not. However, if people are genuinely concerned about their privacy they should not use social media or create any accounts with anyone providing free services for their applications. For those that bring up privacy in this world is strange.

 

That said - anywhere there is data collection - there is an issue of privacy. Who has access to that data and how it is used is still something people are trying to figure out. There is no magic bullet that has solved the issue of privacy anywhere around the world.

 

For example - until mobile phones were carried around by folks all the time with their locations turned on - noone even realized that companies could track every move you make... in fact with the fitness applications that people have installed - they can even track every breath you take - like the Police song :). There was no policy in place to address this kind of data till very recently. Tech keeps changing all the time. Policies are slow to change with it. That doesn't mean that tech should not be used.

[Real McCoy]

34 minutes ago, bharathh said:

When the state govt of Bengal is complicit in getting people across the border IDs and setting them up with all the requisite requirements for IDs - it is quite easy to circumvent. How do I know so - our maid for 7 yrs was Bangladeshi. She told us how easy it is for Bangladeshis to come into India and get all the required IDs with the help of the govt in Bengal. She used to keep hopping back and forth into Bangladesh on her annual trips back home. These folks are sheparded all around India in ghettos where a few people take a cut of their incomes. The women typically work as maids or in low level jobs while the men are pulled into "collection" services or are generally made useful to their overlords.

 

I don't think you understand anything I am saying in the first place. So keep your insults to yourself. What we have in the upcoming Aadhar is better than anything we have currently. There is a lot of good tech going into it. I have never mentioned my company or done anything to promote my company in the first place so I don't understand where the PR bit comes from. Perhaps you have a hard time accepting that you don't know much about this system and are just talking based on some hearsay and conspiracy theories. Don't agree with what I say - fine. But don't talk rubbish about a very good system without knowing anything about it. 

 

Also - answer my question - how are people included in the financial system right now? Aadhar is not mandatory. How does a common villager avail himself/herself of even the LPG subsidies they are allowed to atm? They may not even have ration cards let alone an Aadhar. Do they even know that something like this is available to them? How does a common farmer get a loan in the current scenario? He goes to ppl in Arthiyas and others who give him cash at exorbitant interest rates. Because it is in cash they don't have to record it. They can charge and do whatever they wish to.

 

My example of facebook et al was nothing to do with IDs. It was to show the hypocrisy that people show when gladly spouting personal information to big tech companies while crying hoarse when the govt is trying to figure out who is actually a citizen of the country. Privacy is a holy cow - except when you get a free email and other services which is parsed and analyzed the second you start typing by the company providing it.

calling you a dummy is an insult ok. you keep on saying the same thing over and over again. what do you want me to call you. I know about the bangla situation. in fact most people in india know this. even a dummy who visits chit chat will know this. so you are not revealing anything new to me. So no need for "how do I know" from here on. You already said the company you work for is one of the main vendors of aadhar. It doesn't matter if its infy or some other. So you have a vested interest in promoting this useless aadhar.

That's why you don't want me to rubbish your "good system". Oh the govt is doing good eh. no one needs to question why they are doing it. nothing to look here folks. go away or we will call you a conspiracy theorist.

You asked how the farmer gets loan. All he has to do is go to the bank and get a loan with a collateral. Farmers are not dummies like you seem to project. There is no need for aadhar. Pan card and other documents worked fine. private banks are just as bad as those pawn shops. at least pawn shops say what they are doing. private banks charge the same but advertise it as "0% interest rate"

 

[coffee_rules]

44 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Ok, thanks a lot. Will wait for it.

Some of the Copy Pastes:

 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/Aadhaar-a-fraud-will-review-it-if-voted-to-power-BJP/articleshow/31864188.cms?from=mdr

 

Congress had already made it mandatory, BJP reformed it , esp for rural sectors. 

 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/how-aadhaar-scheme-got-a-second-life-under-pm-modi/articleshow/59464487.cms

 

Some explanation of BJP flip flop on Aadhar, excerpts from a book

 

Quote

Elaborating on his party’s earlier opposition, Modi says, ‘Our problem was not with the idea of Aadhaar, but with the inadequacies of Aadhaar. We have never opposed anything for the sake of opposition. I do not believe in that kind of politics. The UPA government had a problem of imagination and an even bigger problem of implementation. I knew Aadhaar had potential. For years they ran Aadhaar, but it still didn’t have any parliamentary backing, nor integration with public service delivery.’ 

 

Explaining how his government took it forward, the Prime Minister adds, ‘We took a decision to separate the security issues that were raised by home ministry from the issue of Direct Benefit Transfer. We created a committee to look into the legal and technology issues, and we fixed it. We expanded the scope of Aadhaar, amplified the scale and augmented the speed. In a short span of time, the country has already saved about Rs 50,000 crores due to Aadhaar-based systems.’

 

[urbestfriend]

1 hour ago, Trichromatic said:

Those who think privacy is joke - do you think that BJP and Modi were stupid in raising this concern and was creating a roadblock just for sake of it. 

 

@urbestfriend @bharathh 

 

 

Please dont bring Modi or BJP for the sake of it...I speak my mind and for me, aadhar is something which is in right direction.. Going forward, we must use technology to enable better administration and no technology is foolproof. It doesnt mean we should stop using technology for the sake of it and go back to papers. 

[Trichromatic]

57 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Some of the Copy Pastes:

 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/Aadhaar-a-fraud-will-review-it-if-voted-to-power-BJP/articleshow/31864188.cms?from=mdr

 

Congress had already made it mandatory, BJP reformed it , esp for rural sectors. 

 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/how-aadhaar-scheme-got-a-second-life-under-pm-modi/articleshow/59464487.cms

 

Some explanation of BJP flip flop on Aadhar, excerpts from a book

 

 

 

This still doesn't give any info on how privacy concern raised by BJP was addressed.

 

Quote

"The reality is that the National Identification Authority of India Bill, 2010, which gives sanction to this particular card was rejected by the standing committee on Finance," BJP Vice President Smriti Irani said, alleging that the programme violates the constitutional right to privacy.

 

 

https://www.firstpost.com/politics/bjp-attacks-aadhaar-scheme-says-it-violates-right-to-privacy-1186861.html

[Trichromatic]

8 minutes ago, urbestfriend said:

Please dont bring Modi or BJP for the sake of it...I speak my mind and for me, aadhar is something which is in right direction.. Going forward, we must use technology to enable better administration and no technology is foolproof. It doesnt mean we should stop using technology for the sake of it and go back to papers. 

 

Fair point, but privacy may be joke for you, not for everyone.

[Real McCoy]

14 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

This still doesn't give any info on how privacy concern raised by BJP was addressed.

 

 

 

https://www.firstpost.com/politics/bjp-attacks-aadhaar-scheme-says-it-violates-right-to-privacy-1186861.html

coffee can only provide so much. Dont ask him for more seriously, why can't some people see without party lenses. and other people who are thinking technology is good, its only as good as the people who are behind that technology.

[bharathh]

1 hour ago, Real McCoy said:

calling you a dummy is an insult ok. you keep on saying the same thing over and over again. what do you want me to call you. I know about the bangla situation. in fact most people in india know this. even a dummy who visits chit chat will know this. so you are not revealing anything new to me. So no need for "how do I know" from here on. You already said the company you work for is one of the main vendors of aadhar. It doesn't matter if its infy or some other. So you have a vested interest in promoting this useless aadhar.

That's why you don't want me to rubbish your "good system". Oh the govt is doing good eh. no one needs to question why they are doing it. nothing to look here folks. go away or we will call you a conspiracy theorist.

You asked how the farmer gets loan. All he has to do is go to the bank and get a loan with a collateral. Farmers are not dummies like you seem to project. There is no need for aadhar. Pan card and other documents worked fine. private banks are just as bad as those pawn shops. at least pawn shops say what they are doing. private banks charge the same but advertise it as "0% interest rate"

 

I am sure when someone calls you a dummy you feel complimented... not me.. 

 

Ok I'll bite - you asked in your prev post this question

Those accounts are not mandatory dummy. aadhar is. If aadhar identifies citizens, then how come bangladeshis have aadhar. you don't get it do ya. or are you doing a pr for the firm you work for

 

Now I answered your question. If you didn't want an answer - why did you ask this question? 

 

Second, about the PR bit for my company. Again, my company hardly earns much money from this project. However, that doesn't take away from the sophistication of the tech. It's like saying if you say Space travel is cool you are promoting Elon Musk/Richard Branson/Jeff Bezos. You don't need to have an agenda behind everything - I don't. Again you say Aadhar is useless - baseless comment. You don't know how it works or what it does and you just keep repeating the same thing. If I'm a dummy what does that make you? 

 

Please rubbish the system (it isn't mine btw). It belongs to the Indian public. But don't be like Rahul Gandhi and say everything is useless. Some suggestions on what is rubbish and what is better would actually give some credence to what you say. The govt is open to any suggestions on how to improve this. You are welcome to go to the site to put your feedback into the site. Suggestions like this is useless just coz - is the kind of response you are giving. Reflect on that. Again - this is not because I work for the govt or anything - this is an open invite to everyone that has a genuine interest in bettering the system. However, I take it you are one of those folks who just like to rubbish things. All talk.

 

When the govt wanted to do the NRC there was a huge hue and cry stating that many ppl in India do not have birth certificates or any form of ID. Please read up on this if you actually want to know more about this. I doubt you will and will talk nonsense anyways - but there is a real problem with folks not able to identify themselves. When they cannot even identify themselves what kind of collateral can they come up with? How do they even prove that the land they till is theirs? They can't even prove they are Mr/Mrs/Ms X. Their only choice is to go to moneylenders and other questionable sources who have "other" ways of getting their money back. This money is unaccounted for and one of the biggest reasons for modern slavery to exist in India. Millions of labourers, farmers and others are indebted to moneylenders (who typically happen to be politically active as well). They have no way of overcoming this. They have no way of getting included in any financial system - unless we start fresh and give them a new lease of life. 

 

One last time. The Aadhar initiative subsumes PAN, DL, Ration card etc. on a national level with many different parameters that can identify a person uniquely. This cannot be done with existing systems. Again there are many studies on this from a number of sources. I would invite you to read and expand your mind. However, something tells me that this will go through one ear and come out the other and you will still claim all is fine with the existing system and this is rubbish :).

[coffee_rules]

23 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

This still doesn't give any info on how privacy concern raised by BJP was addressed.

 

 

 

From the "UNBIASED" reporting of firstpost article that you swear by, the objection was from the parliamentary panel on Finance which had raised the issue of privacy. Even if you go by what Smriti said, it is a standard opposition tactic, but the primary objection was to illegal immigration. For Aadhar, a ton of documents have to be submitted now and technology has been upgraded, it could be made stricter for illegals to get it. But with corruption of govt workers, anything is possible in India. 

[Real McCoy]

4 minutes ago, bharathh said:

I am sure when someone calls you a dummy you feel complimented... not me.. 

 

Ok I'll bite - you asked in your prev post this question

Those accounts are not mandatory dummy. aadhar is. If aadhar identifies citizens, then how come bangladeshis have aadhar. you don't get it do ya. or are you doing a pr for the firm you work for

 

Now I answered your question. If you didn't want an answer - why did you ask this question? 

 

Second, about the PR bit for my company. Again, my company hardly earns much money from this project. However, that doesn't take away from the sophistication of the tech. It's like saying if you say Space travel is cool you are promoting Elon Musk/Richard Branson/Jeff Bezos. You don't need to have an agenda behind everything - I don't. Again you say Aadhar is useless - baseless comment. You don't know how it works or what it does and you just keep repeating the same thing. If I'm a dummy what does that make you? 

 

Please rubbish the system (it isn't mine btw). It belongs to the Indian public. But don't be like Rahul Gandhi and say everything is useless. Some suggestions on what is rubbish and what is better would actually give some credence to what you say. The govt is open to any suggestions on how to improve this. You are welcome to go to the site to put your feedback into the site. Suggestions like this is useless just coz - is the kind of response you are giving. Reflect on that. Again - this is not because I work for the govt or anything - this is an open invite to everyone that has a genuine interest in bettering the system. However, I take it you are one of those folks who just like to rubbish things. All talk.

 

When the govt wanted to do the NRC there was a huge hue and cry stating that many ppl in India do not have birth certificates or any form of ID. Please read up on this if you actually want to know more about this. I doubt you will and will talk nonsense anyways - but there is a real problem with folks not able to identify themselves. When they cannot even identify themselves what kind of collateral can they come up with? How do they even prove that the land they till is theirs? They can't even prove they are Mr/Mrs/Ms X. Their only choice is to go to moneylenders and other questionable sources who have "other" ways of getting their money back. This money is unaccounted for and one of the biggest reasons for modern slavery to exist in India. Millions of labourers, farmers and others are indebted to moneylenders (who typically happen to be politically active as well). They have no way of overcoming this. They have no way of getting included in any financial system - unless we start fresh and give them a new lease of life. 

 

One last time. The Aadhar initiative subsumes PAN, DL, Ration card etc. on a national level with many different parameters that can identify a person uniquely. This cannot be done with existing systems. Again there are many studies on this from a number of sources. I would invite you to read and expand your mind. However, something tells me that this will go through one ear and come out the other and you will still claim all is fine with the existing system and this is rubbish :).

I didn't say that was a compliment either but for you to take it as an insult is just too much. Again this is not a political thread. If you are a BJP supporter, this is not for you. Same thing was promoted by congress also so its not like they are somehow ok. But it was opposed by BJP claiming "privacy issues" but once in power, they went ahead and made it compulsory which even congress didn't do.

I have heard all about it dude. There are still people in the US talking about SSN and biometrics as invasion of privacy. Aadhar went a step further by combining both the national id and biometrics. India was the first country that did it and the global elite like Bill Gates are praising India for doing it. Whenever these evil scumbags praise you, its a clear case of doom.

[Trichromatic]

7 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

From the "UNBIASED" reporting of firstpost article that you swear by, the objection was from the parliamentary panel on Finance which had raised the issue of privacy. Even if you go by what Smriti said, it is a standard opposition tactic, but the primary objection was to illegal immigration. For Aadhar, a ton of documents have to be submitted now and technology has been upgraded, it could be made stricter for illegals to get it. But with corruption of govt workers, anything is possible in India. 

 

So, are you saying that you were wrong in claiming that BJP addressed ALL concerns when they came to power?

[bharathh]

5 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

I didn't say that was a compliment either but for you to take it as an insult is just too much. Again this is not a political thread. If you are a BJP supporter, this is not for you. Same thing was promoted by congress also so its not like they are somehow ok. But it was opposed by BJP claiming "privacy issues" but once in power, they went ahead and made it compulsory which even congress didn't do.

I have heard all about it dude. There are still people in the US talking about SSN and biometrics as invasion of privacy. Aadhar went a step further by combining both the national id and biometrics. India was the first country that did it and the global elite like Bill Gates are praising India for doing it. Whenever these evil scumbags praise you, its a clear case of doom.

What does BJP/Congress have to do with the folks working on this program? Where have I talked about any political affiliation in my prev posts?

 

That said if your only issue with this is certain people liking its implementation - we have nothing more to discuss. Forget the US - look at the list I gave you with countries that have mandatory national IDs. I guess almost all governments are totalitarian according to you. 

[coffee_rules]

1 minute ago, Trichromatic said:

 

So, are you saying that you were wrong in claiming that BJP addressed all concerns when they came to power?

I go by what BJP said, they had concerns about illegals getting it, and they have addressed it, how successful , it is for public to judge. They were voted back to power despite firstpost reporting. So, it seems like this privacy concern is trivial for Indians. I had said this earlier - "All of recent reforms of BJP except A-370 has been Congressi manifesto. BJP is implementing what Congress promised or asked for in 1999-2004. Farm bills , MNREGA, new Parliament, CAA etc." 

[Trichromatic]

1 minute ago, coffee_rules said:

I go by what BJP said, they had concerns about illegals getting it, and they have addressed it, how successful , it is for public to judge. They were voted back to power despite firstpost reporting. So, it seems like this privacy concern is trivial for Indians. I had said this earlier - "All of recent reforms of BJP except A-370 has been Congressi manifesto. BJP is implementing what Congress promised or asked for in 1999-2004. Farm bills , MNREGA, new Parliament, CAA etc." 

 

How have they addressed concerns about illegals getting it?

[coffee_rules]

1 minute ago, Trichromatic said:

 

How have they addressed illegals getting it?

 

Are you claiming that no illegals have got adhaar card in last 7 years?

Government is different, but corrupt officials are same. They claimed to have introduced better technology. I don't a report of how many illegals were already there and how many have been given Aadhar id cards. Go to WB, they will be most corrupt to grant Aadhar to ghuspetiyan!

[Trichromatic]

3 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Government is different, but corrupt officials are same. They claimed to have introduced better technology. I don't a report of how many illegals were already there and how many have been given Aadhar id cards. Go to WB, they will be most corrupt to grant Aadhar to ghuspetiyan!

 

I agree that officials are corrupt. That's why I removed that question from my post.

 

Bangladeshi gets Aadhaar, BJP leader held

 

Quote

A West Midnapore BJP leader has been arrested on charges of helping a Bangladeshi woman obtain an Aadhaar card and proof of residence certificate allegedly issued by BJP state president Dilip Ghosh when he was the Kharagpur MLA two years ago.

 

 

My question is only about how BJP has addressed concerns related to illegals?

 

Quote

they had concerns about illegals getting it, and they have addressed it,

 

[coffee_rules]

2 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

I agree that officials are corrupt. That's why I removed that statement from my post.

 

My question is only about how BJP has addressed concerns related to illegals?

 

 

I should have said "they claimed to have addressed it". OP thinks it is all a waste. I do see adv , even for a layman. Others have chimed in with the adv of the services. For some like telecom SIM card, it was necessary for curtailing terrorism, I understand. There have been very minimal terrorist attacks outside Kashmir in the last 7 years.  

[Trichromatic]

3 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

I should have said "they claimed to have addressed it". OP thinks it is all a waste. I do see adv , even for a layman. Others have chimed in with the adv of the services. For some like telecom SIM card, it was necessary for curtailing terrorism, I understand. There have been very minimal terrorist attacks outside Kashmir in the last 7 years.  

 

When did they claim to have addressed the issue of illegal immigrants with Adhaar?

 

Possible to share a link?