Have Mani Ratnam films aged well?

[zen]

At the time of their respective releases I liked: 

 

• Roza (1992, dubbed): Brilliant songs, score, and story 
• Bombay (1995, dubbed): Same positives as Roza'. At the time of the release, I found A.R. Rehman's background score esp. during the riots sequences innovative 
• Guru (2007): Another engaging film. Mithunda was seen in a good role after a long time ... Though Ratnam's other Hindi ventures have not been too successful - Dil Se, Saathiya (?, remake), Yuva, and Ravan (remake?)

 

Recently (2021 PoV), I thought about watching a few as I had fond memories of them. Started with a couple of his films below and found that they have not aged that well (or as I had hoped for):

 

• Nayakan (1987, subtitles): Mostly suited for Kamal Hassan fans as his acting is good  
• Bombay (1995, dubbed): Enjoyed the songs but found the film to be dated. The Hindu-Muslim angle, Swami's dated pursuit of Manisha (including wearing a burqa), and so on. Shaked my head many times at various points (difficult to watch such stuff now)

 

To preserve good memories of Roza and Guru, I decided to not rewatch them at the moment. May revisit them at some point in the future (will stick to the songs for now) ... Were his films more like flavors of the season, failing to stand the test of time? Therefore the question, have Mani Ratnam films aged well? 

 

 

PS Note that this is from 2020s perspective so you should have watched the films from 2020 onwards. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by zen

[ravishingravi]

Yeah most of them have aged well. Nayagan, Roza, Bombay, Iruvar, Thiruda Thiruda, Alai payuthey, kanaithhil mutthamithal, Anjali. 
 

For me, in a mediocre film industry, that we are, his films do represent certain degree of quality in terms of technique and content. I could write a lot about this but I don’t have the same passion for movies as I used to. 
 

He brought modernity, structure, ambiguity, edginess within mainstream cinema. Definitely a cream league of talent. 

[zen]

38 minutes ago, ravishingravi said:

Yeah most of them have aged well. Nayagan, Roza, Bombay, Iruvar, Thiruda Thiruda, Alai payuthey, kanaithhil mutthamithal, Anjali. 
 

For me, in a mediocre film industry, that we are, his films do represent certain degree of quality in terms of technique and content. I could write a lot about this but I don’t have the same passion for movies as I used to. 
 

He brought modernity, structure, ambiguity, edginess within mainstream cinema. Definitely a cream league of talent. 

 

I hope that you did not write from "memory" as we are discussing from the 2020s perspective

 

Unless one is a diehard fan, it is extremely difficult (less probably scenario) to watch 8 Mani Ratnam films that you listed in less than 2 years for a 2020s perspective (for e.g. ran out of gas after watching 2) 

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by zen

[goose]

7 hours ago, zen said:

At the time of their respective releases I liked: 

 

• Roza (1992, dubbed): Brilliant songs, score, and story 
• Bombay (1995, dubbed): Same positives as Roza'. At the time of the release, I found A.R. Rehman's background score esp. during the riots sequences innovative 
• Guru (2007): Another engaging film. Mithunda was seen in a good role after a long time ... Though Ratnam's other Hindi ventures have not been too successful - Dil Se, Saathiya (?, remake), Yuva, and Ravan (remake?)

 

Recently (2021 PoV), I thought about watching a few as I had fond memories of them. Started with a couple of his films below and found that they have not aged that well (or as I had hoped for):

 

• Nayakan (1987, subtitles): Mostly suited for Kamal Hassan fans as his acting is good  
• Bombay (1995, dubbed): Enjoyed the songs but found the film to be dated. The Hindu-Muslim angle, Swami's dated pursuit of Manisha (including wearing a burqa), and so on. Shaked my head many times at various points (difficult to watch such stuff now)

 

To preserve good memories of Roza and Guru, I decided to not rewatch them at the moment. May revisit them at some point in the future (will stick to the songs for now) ... Were his films more like flavors of the season, failing to stand the test of time? Therefore the question, have Mani Ratnam films aged well? 

 

 

PS Note that this is from 2020s perspective so you should have watched the films from 2020 onwards. 

 

Bombay is an all time favorite. i don't think it's aged. why were shaking your head? i watched it recently. wonderful  soundtrack. forgot how harrowing the second half is. Koirala was excellent. Sonali Bendre to top it off! the lead male is a horny ba$tard!

 

[zen]

2 hours ago, goose said:

 

Bombay is an all time favorite. i don't think it's aged. why were shaking your head? i watched it recently. wonderful  soundtrack. forgot how harrowing the second half is. Koirala was excellent. Sonali Bendre to top it off! the lead male is a horny ba$tard!

 

 

First of all good to know that you like it ... Below are some of the issues I had with the film: 

 

 

Act 1: Love and its related problems

 

• The uninteresting Shekar's pursuit of Shaila including cycling around, wearing a Burqa, and so on 
• The lame Hindu-Muslim tussle over the love affair 
• The "standard" initial struggles of the couple in Mumbai including getting moved out to a guest house (Why? You guessed it)
• Time spent on childish "horniness" 
• Idiotic letters from the families to the couple so that viewers remain on “track”

 

Act 2: Deeper into the relationship

 

• Again unnecessary childish Hindu-Muslim tussle (The hindu grandparent, looking for a tussle, wants a religious name engraved on each brick from the muslim grandparent. The muslim grandparent, who is in the business of making bricks … Yes, we get it!)
• More childish horniness
• Time spent on pregnancy - halla gulla 
• The grandparents show concern as to which religion the children will follow (ok, as if we did not get the point)
• We watch Manisha's close up as she delivers (the last straw?)
• Time devoted to raising kids (another song) 

 

Act 3: Riots

 

• Politics brought in including that of temple-mosque 

 

Act 4: Parents visit Bombay (more preachiness) 

 

• Names like Kabir Narayan and Kamal Bashir thrown in to the mix (so in almost every frame the film keeps reminding people of religion and goes on to preach)
• More religion thrown in with grandparents trying to do their Hindu-Muslim thing 
• Then everyone wants another kid - time for Kuchi Kuchi where even kids encourage kuchi kuchi

 

Act 5: Back to riots and politics 

 

• More Hindu-Muslim tussle 
• Some cooperation 
• Then the customary lecture through Swami 

 

 

 

^  the magical tummy keeps changing size/shape, protruding in one scene, flat in other, then protruding again 

 

 

It is a film with too many unnecessary parts stitched together which makes watching it in 2021 a tiring experience. The whole film is like a Nirupa Roy going through one unwarranted challenge after other in films.

 

 

PS Yes, as  said, I liked the songs and the score. But that is about it! 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by zen

[bharathh]

IMO Mani Ratnam's best movies are those dealing with relationships... The trilogy.. Mouna Ragam, Alai Payuthey (Saathiya in Hindi) and OK Kanmani have aged the best along with Kannathil Muthamittal (IMO his best and one of my all time favs). Anjali is also a beautiful movie.. Unfortunately not aged as well as the others. 

 

Watched Roja recently.. Didn't age well. Same with Bombay. Nayakan doesn't have the same impact due to the horrible film quality. I haven't watched Iruvar but that is supposed to be superlative.. Yuva(ayutha ezuthu) and Agni Natchathiram are still very entertaining. 

 

One common theme across all these movies are the songs though. Evergreen and some of the best ever made in Tamil cinema. He forged an amazing partnership with Illayaraja and then Rehman who produced some of their best for these movies. 

 

Have you watched Raavan? Hindi or Tamil? Hated it when it came out but on a recent viewing felt it was ahead of its time. 

[EnterTheVoid]

Honestly, this is on our bucket list. 

 

When me and the missus get some free time, we are just going on to binge on these films.

[ravishingravi]

12 hours ago, zen said:

 

I hope that you did not write from "memory" as we are discussing from the 2020s perspective

 

Unless one is a diehard fan, it is extremely difficult (less probably scenario) to watch 8 Mani Ratnam films that you listed in less than 2 years for a 2020s perspective (for e.g. ran out of gas after watching 2) 

 

I keep going back to his films. I don’t watch many films in entirety now. I am more interested in technique and editing. 
 

For instance, I saw a scene in Roza recently when Arvind goes to Kashmir first time and there is van following him and taking pictures. 
 

In Yuva, it Abhishek Bachan following Vivek Oberoi in hospital. 
 

In Iruvar, it’s Mohanlal’s speech on periyar’s death. 
 

One cannot overrule the importance of language. Much of subtleties get lost in sub titles. 

[zen]

2 hours ago, ravishingravi said:

I keep going back to his films. I don’t watch many films in entirety now. I am more interested in technique and editing. 
 

For instance, I saw a scene in Roza recently when Arvind goes to Kashmir first time and there is van following him and taking pictures. 
 

In Yuva, it Abhishek Bachan following Vivek Oberoi in hospital. 
 

In Iruvar, it’s Mohanlal’s speech on periyar’s death. 
 

One cannot overrule the importance of language. Much of subtleties get lost in sub titles. 

Oh ok … I would say watching a film for 2-3 hrs versus 15-20 mins of scenes provides a better overview as you are looking at both the good and the bad while also evaluating the film in terms of 2-3 hours spent on it

[zen]

7 hours ago, bharathh said:

IMO Mani Ratnam's best movies are those dealing with relationships... The trilogy.. Mouna Ragam, Alai Payuthey (Saathiya in Hindi) and OK Kanmani have aged the best along with Kannathil Muthamittal (IMO his best and one of my all time favs). Anjali is also a beautiful movie.. Unfortunately not aged as well as the others. 

 

Watched Roja recently.. Didn't age well. Same with Bombay. Nayakan doesn't have the same impact due to the horrible film quality. I haven't watched Iruvar but that is supposed to be superlative.. Yuva(ayutha ezuthu) and Agni Natchathiram are still very entertaining. 

 

One common theme across all these movies are the songs though. Evergreen and some of the best ever made in Tamil cinema. He forged an amazing partnership with Illayaraja and then Rehman who produced some of their best for these movies. 

 

Have you watched Raavan? Hindi or Tamil? Hated it when it came out but on a recent viewing felt it was ahead of its time. 

Nice post!

 

[zen]

4 hours ago, EnterTheVoid said:

Honestly, this is on our bucket list. 

 

When me and the missus get some free time, we are just going on to binge on these films.

Let us know how the viewings go … Don’t get too influenced just by the songs!

[goose]

15 hours ago, zen said:

 

First of all good to know that you like it ... Below are some of the issues I had with the film: 

 

 

Act 1: Love and its related problems

 

• The uninteresting Shekar's pursuit of Shaila including cycling around, wearing a Burqa, and so on 
• The lame Hindu-Muslim tussle over the love affair 
• The "standard" initial struggles of the couple in Mumbai including getting moved out to a guest house (Why? You guessed it)
• Time spent on childish "horniness" 
• Idiotic letters from the families to the couple so that viewers remain on “track”

 

Act 2: Deeper into the relationship

 

• Again unnecessary childish Hindu-Muslim tussle (The hindu grandparent, looking for a tussle, wants a religious name engraved on each brick from the muslim grandparent. The muslim grandparent, who is in the business of making bricks … Yes, we get it!)
• More childish horniness
• Time spent on pregnancy - halla gulla 
• The grandparents show concern as to which religion the children will follow (ok, as if we did not get the point)
• We watch Manisha's close up as she delivers (the last straw?)
• Time devoted to raising kids (another song) 

 

Act 3: Riots

 

• Politics brought in including that of temple-mosque 

 

Act 4: Parents visit Bombay (more preachiness) 

 

• Names like Kabir Narayan and Kamal Bashir thrown in to the mix (so in almost every frame the film keeps reminding people of religion and goes on to preach)
• More religion thrown in with grandparents trying to do their Hindu-Muslim thing 
• Then everyone wants another kid - time for Kuchi Kuchi where even kids encourage kuchi kuchi

 

Act 5: Back to riots and politics 

 

• More Hindu-Muslim tussle 
• Some cooperation 
• Then the customary lecture through Swami 

 

 

 

^  the magical tummy keeps changing size/shape, protruding in one scene, flat in other, then protruding again 

 

 

It is a film with too many unnecessary parts stitched together which makes watching it in 2021 a tiring experience. The whole film is like a Nirupa Roy going through one unwarranted challenge after other in films.

 

 

PS Yes, as  said, I liked the songs and the score. But that is about it! 

 

 

 

i'm not sure it's possible to truly watch an old favorite through completely fresh eyes. it ends up being just a trigger of long term memory especially when the thing you liked was the music. when i watch bollywood i leave my analytical brain at the door. i take from it what i want to. if it stirs emotions i like it. the re-watch did just that. the music is a huge part of any bollywood movie for me, they are musicals afterall. what happens in between just needs to be moderately good / symbolise a theme. i actually thought the courtship in first hour was refreshingly authentic and silly, quite credible i thought. Koirala doesn't say a word for 45 minutes. the lead actor being the average boy next door helps with the re-watch too. i haven't seen any of the caste before or since apart from Koirala. that helps to enjoy it too. why did you think the hindu-muslim stuff was lame? is that because it was too cliche or because attitudes have to inter-faith relationships have changed? the labor scene was fair enough, a common scene in films. also as ravisingravi said above it's such a welcome departure from the rest of bollywood sometimes that's enough to carry the movie.

 

 

 

 

[zen]

11 minutes ago, goose said:

 

i'm not sure it's possible to truly watch an old favorite through completely fresh eyes. it ends up being just a trigger of long term memory especially when the thing you liked was the music. when i watch bollywood i leave my analytical brain at the door. i take from it what i want to. if it stirs emotions i like it. the re-watch did just that. the music is a huge part of any bollywood movie for me, they are musicals afterall. what happens in between just needs to be moderately good / symbolise a theme. i actually thought the courtship in first hour was refreshingly authentic and silly, quite credible i thought. Koirala doesn't say a word for 45 minutes. the lead actor being the average boy next door helps with the re-watch too. i haven't seen any of the caste before or since apart from Koirala. that helps to enjoy it too. why did you think the hindu-muslim stuff was lame? is that because it was too cliche or because attitudes have to inter-faith relationships have changed? the labor scene was fair enough, a common scene in films. also as ravisingravi said above it's such a welcome departure from the rest of bollywood sometimes that's enough to carry the movie.

 

 

Appears as if you were emotionally connected with the film when it was released so you liked it as it triggered those memories. 

 

 

[Mariyam]

Forget ageing, I found Guru unwatchable even when it came out. 

 

Was mildly bored through the movie.

 

Can't expect to essay the rise of a business tycoon without giving sufficient exposition on the background economic scenario/regulations etc. A  10 episode series would have been far better.

 

Aishwarya's "Kokila ben" character was an unnecessary distraction. The Wankhede speech was just very blah. 50,000 people gathered to hear Guru utter a 3 mins speech? Heard of radio? Guru could have started a radio company if he had this kind of following!

[ravishingravi]

56 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

Forget ageing, I found Guru unwatchable even when it came out. 

 

Was mildly bored through the movie.

 

Can't expect to essay the rise of a business tycoon without giving sufficient exposition on the background economic scenario/regulations etc. A  10 episode series would have been far better.

 

Aishwarya's "Kokila ben" character was an unnecessary distraction. The Wankhede speech was just very blah. 50,000 people gathered to hear Guru utter a 3 mins speech? Heard of radio? Guru could have started a radio company if he had this kind of following!

It was horrible. I agree. I think one of his biggest mistakes was getting smitten by Aishwarya. He cast her on character based on Jayalalitha in Iruvar. You know then fisal gaya