Test Fantasy Draft Post 1970s debut?

[Majestic]

1 minute ago, Chakdephatte said:

Or we can ask all competitors to calculate combined batting and bowling average of their players. From there, we calculate how many runs they concede and how many they score, and calculate the difference.

Averages are misleading and a winner can't be decided based on that. For example, how would you assess Axar Patel bowling average with respect to Shane Warne? Warne got picked in 1st round and conceeded 25 runs while Axar conceeded 11 runs per wicket 

[Adamant]

9 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

There's ICC - international cricket captain. I can run some "simulations" but that will take an awful lot of time. For now voting sounds best.

 

8 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

Or we can ask all competitors to calculate combined batting and bowling average of their players. From there, we calculate how many runs they concede and how many they score, and calculate the difference.

Running simulation on Icc cricket captain sounds better. 

Average and all isn't really a good way, coz I have Barry Richards who averages 72. 

Also bowlers like Bond avgd 23 ish but had no longevity, so can't be compared to the likes of Akram, Younis etc. 

[zen]

3 minutes ago, Adamant said:

You are so wrong about Roberts

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283875.html

 

That study is in a controlled environment ... In 1979, the latest for him, he was clocked at less than 140 for e.g. 

 

Appears as if you chose your team based on stats 

 

 

 

 

[Chakdephatte]

6 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Averages are misleading and a winner can't be decided based on that. For example, how would you assess Axar Patel bowling average with respect to Shane Warne? Warne got picked in 1st round and conceeded 25 runs while Axar conceeded 11 runs per wicket 

That's because Axar played just 5 tests. In a long career, every player averages what he should. Except for Axar, Bond, Barry Richards, each of our picks have had a sizeable career.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Chakdephatte

[Adamant]

1 hour ago, zen said:

If we say the ability to bowl more often at 130-139 as fast medium, 140-149 fast, and 150 or higher as express, below is a rough range: 

 

Chak De Phatte: Steyn and Bumrah 135-145 ... Holding and Gillespie 130-140 

Ritter: Marshall 130-140 ... Imran and Hadlee 125-135

Adamant: Ambrose 130-140 ... Roberts, Pollock, and Cairns 125-135 

Majestic: Donald 140-150 ... Wasim and McGrath 130-140 

Rantzz: Lillee 135-145 (assuming a pre injury Lillee) ... Garner 130-140 ... Botham and Kapil 120-130

QT: Starc 140-150 (effort ball 160s), Rabada 135-145, Walsh 125-135,

JaFanatic: Waqar 140-150 (assuming his peak) ...  Anderson and Philander 125-135 ... Johnson 135-145 (effort ball 150s)

Zen: Bond and Akhtar 145-155 (effort ball 160s); intoff 135-145 (effort ball 150s)

 

 

1975 Study

The following speeds were measured at the WACA ground in Perth in December 1975, using "very accurate high speed cameras" and reported in the book "The Art of Fast Bowling" by DK Lillee, pp 27-30.

 

Roberts was recorded at 159 kph, second fastest after Jeff Thompson. 

 

Although I didn't pick him just for  his speed,  he has an incredible away record. That matters more to me. 

[zen]

5 minutes ago, Adamant said:

 

 

1975 Study

The following speeds were measured at the WACA ground in Perth in December 1975, using "very accurate high speed cameras" and reported in the book "The Art of Fast Bowling" by DK Lillee, pp 27-30.

 

Roberts was recorded at 159 kph, second fastest after Jeff Thompson. 

 

Although I didn't pick him just for  his speed,  he has an incredible away record. That matters more to me. 

 

As I said in a "controlled" environment and in 1979, he was clocked at less than 140 

 

Holding is usually seen as the fastest among the WI bowlers of that period, he too is not going to clock 160 in a match  

 

 

Edited December 20, 2021 by zen

[Adamant]

5 minutes ago, zen said:

 

That study is in a controlled environment ... In 1979, the latest for him, he was clocked at less than 140 for e.g. 

 

Appears as if you chose your team based on stats 

 

 

 

 

In the study which you quoted, Holding was recorded at less than 140.

Same goes for all others except Thomson, that study didn't measure the speed of ball from the hand and was totally inaccurate. 

Even Imran was clocked at low 130s

 

With that being said I chose Andy for his superb record and recognition and not bcoz he can bowl 150 kph. 

 

 

[zen]

7 minutes ago, Adamant said:

In the study which you quoted, Holding was recorded at less than 140.

Same goes for all others except Thomson, that study didn't measure the speed of ball from the hand and was totally inaccurate. 

Even Imran was clocked at low 130s

 

With that being said I chose Andy for his superb record and recognition and not bcoz he can bowl 150 kph. 

 

 

In match situations, not many would rate Roberts as faster than Holding ... Roberts is more of a crafty bowler with a variety of tools in his arsenal 

 

 

 

[Adamant]

8 minutes ago, zen said:

 

In match situations, not many would rate Roberts as faster than Holding ... Roberts is more of a crafty bowler with a variety of tools in his arsenal 

 

 

 

You called him a 125 - 130 bowler which is completely false. 

Garner was the slowest pacer out of the 4 and you have him at 130-140.

 

When West Indies arrived in India in 80s, Viv was asked that he doesn't have a good spinner, who will he use then? 

Viv replied saying that Garner is our Spinner. 

 

 

Andy Roberts bowling at same speed at which Bhuvi bowls is definitely a lolworthy attempt at trolling. 

 

In the study you mentioned both Holding and Roberts were recorded close to 87 mph. 

According to those who actually played against him and other speed tests he was comfortably above 140 and his effort ball could reach 155 too. 

Edited December 20, 2021 by Adamant

[Majestic]

The thread for voting round has been created. You can post your top three teams too if you want.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Majestic

[zen]

5 minutes ago, Adamant said:

You called him a 125 - 130 bowler which is completely false. 

Garner was the slowest pacer out of the 4 and you have him at 130-140.

 

When West Indies arrived in India in 80s, Viv was asked that he doesn't have a good spinner, who will he use then? 

Viv replied saying that Garner is our Spinner. 

 

 

Andy Roberts bowling at same speed at which Bhuvi bowls is definitely a lolworthy attempt at trolling. 

 

In the study you mentioned both Holding and Roberts were recorded close to 87 mph. 

According to those who actually played against him and other speed tests he was comfortably above 140 and his effort ball could reach 155 too. 

 

I rated Roberts at 125-135 (not 125-130) in general match situations. Srinath was clocked at 155+ iirc but that does not make him an express bowler. Fast, yes. 

 

Below is Roberts actually bowling in a match in 1976 ... Hardly a relatively 140+ bowling below:

 

 

 

Imagine a Brett Lee bowling to these guys with insufficient protective equipment (not even wearing helmets). Brett Lee's bowling average could be even lower than what it is now if he bowled in such an environment

 

You can't just go by stats unless it is too far ahead of a player's peers!

 

 

Below is Andre Nel bowling in the 130-135 range:

 

 

[JaFanatic]

5 hours ago, Sooda said:

 

Why did you not go for at least one specialist opener?!

 

Good team anyway though

By the time I'd to pick my openers all the great openers were selected by other teams and I'm not sure about the consistency of the available lot hence I opted for the top order batsmen with exposure to the newer balls.. Reason behind Root's selection is that he could also bowl when needed and Hussey is one most consistent batsmen we could ask for hence I chose him. But only later I realised that Warner was still available and I missed out on him 

[Majestic]

1 hour ago, Chakdephatte said:

That's because Axar played just 5 tests. In a long career, every player averages what he should. Except for Axar, Bond, Barry Richards, each of our picks have had a sizeable career.

Yeah but still there will be some differences.

 

Sanga averages 57, Kallis averages 55 and SRT 53 and Lara 52. But most rate those two higher than Sanga and Kallis.

[R!TTER]

38 minutes ago, Majestic said:

But most rate those two higher than Sanga and Kallis.

Rightly so, Sanga & Kallis' best years are post 2006/07 when McWarne retired. They have abysmal records against the best test side of that era! Sanga has even more holes, especially poor in India, Kallis likewise in Eng.

[Majestic]

5 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Rightly so, Sanga & Kallis' best years are post 2006/07 when McWarne retired. They have abysmal records against the best test side of that era! Sanga has even more holes, especially poor in India, Kallis likewise in Eng.

That is why calculation based on averages is a wrong parameter.

[Rantzz]

@Majestic

 

another way to decide the draft is to randomly pair the 8 teams in a quarter final like bracket 

 

then have 5 or 7 neutrals pick their team for each tie

 

winners advance to semis etc

 

repeat the process