Should BCCI place a soft ban on 'fast' bowlers bowling slower than 125 - 128 kph average in our domestics ?

[Jay]

7 hours ago, Adamant said:

Pollock still averages 23 and is better than any bowler India ever produced and is definitely an ATG. 

 

Philander is great in Sena and UAE and in fact everywhere except Ind and Sl,  that is better than any Indian bowler ever except Bumrah but he hasn't taken 200 wkts yet. 

 

Asif performed on proper flat tracks and also on green tracks even though he bowled 125, just bcoz you think he was worked out doesn't prove zilch, he still averages 24.

 

The other two whom you dismissed were again great bowlers, doesn't matter if you rate them or not, nobody cares. 

Asif got worked out and he got tonked around. His meddling medium pace would have been slaughtered soon after. 

 

Philander is the biggest stat padder of all time. He absolutely sucks in India. That is his litmus test. Hardest place to tour. He failed. He sucked in lanka too yes. He is a sena bully at best. Shami bumrah are both better. 

 

Only an absolute idiot would pick medium pacer Pollock over bumrah or shami. Pollock could never lead an attack. His wickets came off the back of Donald. Pollock's average vs the one tough team of his era? What was it again? Vs australia? Yea how about no. 

 

He also played in an era with drs, unbiased umpiring etc. 

Edited December 24, 2021 by Jay

[Jay]

Phil trundler averages 43 in bangla toygerland

45 in India

63 in lanka

 

Hahahahahaha ok. 

 

Asif trundler averages 35 in Australia and 40 something in Pakistan.

 

His average in India is in 30s too. 

 

Rofl. What a bowler. 

[Mesky99]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Asif got worked out and he got tanked around. His meddling medium pace would have been slaughtered soon after. 

 

Philander is the biggest stat padder of all time. He absolutely sucks in India. That is his litmus test. Hardest place to tour. He failed. He sacked in lanka too yes. He is a sena bully at best. Shami bumrah are both better. 

 

Only an absolute idiot would pick medium pacer Pollock over bumrah or shami. Pollock could never lead an attack. His wickets came off the back of Donald. Pollock's average vs the one tough team of his era? What was it again? Vs australia? Yea how about no. 

 

He also played in an era with drs, unbiased umpiring etc. 

Pollack led south Africa's attack from 03-07 until both steyn and morkel became regulars, even while bowling at 125kph Pollack was good enough everywhere and troubled many world class batsmen, there is no glitch in Pollack's numbers except for his 34 average in Australia he averages under 30 everywhere, the man is underated, just one notch below macgrath and ahead of Anderson.

 

[urbestfriend]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Phil trundler averages 43 in bangla toygerland

45 in India

63 in lanka

 

Hahahahahaha ok. 

 

Asif trundler averages 35 in Australia and 40 something in Pakistan.

 

His average in India is in 30s too. 

 

Rofl. What a bowler. 

Typical stat picking...I extract a particular stat to suit my theory..Any bowlers can be destroyed by this kind of  theories..

For ex: Phil played three tests in India, 2 at the fag end of his career in Phattas where all other bowlers also gone for plenty

Same can be talked about Rabada, Nortje, Starc etc and say that they average above 40 in India and they are shittiest bowler...lol

Edited December 24, 2021 by urbestfriend

[express bowling]

The biggest difference we see, as we move from Club cricket to State Level cricket ... and from State Level cricket to International cricket ... and from Average International teams to Great International Teams ..... is that  (a)  The Pace and Bounce of the pacers increase.  (b) The ability of batsmen to handle such pace and bounce increase.

 

The 2 truly Great Teams of the last 50 years .... (1)  The West Indian team of 1976 to 1995   (2)  The Australian Team of 1994 to 2007

... were basically filled with Pacers who could either (a)  Bowl their quicker balls at 90 mph+ or (b)  Were 6'3"+ hit the deck pacers who got steep bounce.

 

The Great Indian Test team of 2016 to mid 2021 has or had 4 pacers who can bowl their quicker deliveries at 90 mph+  ( or could do it during 2016 to 2020  ) and one 6'5" hit the deck pacer.

 

Yes ... there can be that odd highly skilled pacer (  usually very experienced too and often very tall  )  who does well at medium pace. But attaining such high skills to succeed at medium pace is not a run of the mill event.

 

We have the premier 50 over tournament of our domestic cricket structure taking place. And in the Televised matches, most pacers are struggling to even touch 130 kph.  (  and none of them have the commensurate skill levels or bounce to look threatening at 125 kph )

 

This is plain sad and shows that enough effort is not being put in by the State Associations to find cricketers who can do well in international cricket. 

 

Looking at some of the matches, it feels like a club match is going on.

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by express bowling

[Dery]

We need a board which supports fast bowlers. Instead we have short bowlers struggling to bowl 125kph who have been in the system for decades. 

If we ban trundlers more ranji teams will hire coaches, develop Pacers & have pitches which support bowlers who bowl fast.

[Adamant]

3 hours ago, Jay said:

Asif got worked out and he got tanked around. His meddling medium pace would have been slaughtered soon after. 

 

Philander is the biggest stat padder of all time. He absolutely sucks in India. That is his litmus test. Hardest place to tour. He failed. He sacked in lanka too yes. He is a sena bully at best. Shami bumrah are both better. 

 

Only an absolute idiot would pick medium pacer Pollock over bumrah or shami. Pollock could never lead an attack. His wickets came off the back of Donald. Pollock's average vs the one tough team of his era? What was it again? Vs australia? Yea how about no. 

 

He also played in an era with drs, unbiased umpiring etc. 

Only an absolute Idiot won't pick Pollock over Shami. 

 

Also if you are looking at overseas averages then please go through Pollock and Shami's averages in different countries. 

Pollock is in a different league altogether. 

 

Pollock averaged 27 in India against the fab 4, isn't that an achievement,  also 22 in Pakistan and 25 in Sri Lanka Lanka on flat pitches, maybe that counts for nothing in his case. 

 

Also, you hail Ashwin as an atg despite his 40 average in SENA and here you are downplaying a guy who averages below 30 everywhere except in Aus? You see the Hypocrisy? 

If we apply these type of filters to Ashwin 's (or many other great bowlers) you would find many holes in their resume. 

BTW Allan Donald averages 33 in Pak. 

 

Shami averages  32 in Aus, 36 in Nz and 40 in Eng.! 

Edited December 24, 2021 by Adamant

[express bowling]

29 minutes ago, Dery said:

We need a board which supports fast bowlers. Instead we have short bowlers struggling to bowl 125kph who have been in the system for decades. 

If we ban trundlers more ranji teams will hire coaches, develop Pacers & have pitches which support bowlers who bowl fast.

 

 

I think the solution lies in preparing pitches where, for success,  teams need pacers with pace and bounce and spinners who can turn the ball. State teams will automatically search for such bowlers then. 

 

And this will be good for developing batsmen too ... as they will get to play much better bowlers.

 

Banning trundlers won't be possible.

Edited December 24, 2021 by express bowling

[Dery]

Why are people bringing up Pollock ? When was the last time we produced a Pollock? We should atleast try to produce fast medium bowlers consistently in Ranji. 

[express bowling]

17 minutes ago, Dery said:

Why are people bringing up Pollock ? When was the last time we produced a Pollock? We should atleast try to produce fast medium bowlers consistently in Ranji. 

 

 

Exactly !

 

Shaun Pollock was 

 

1)  Very tall hit the deck pacer

2)  Got good zip and bounce off the deck.

3)  Was Fast-medium for the first half of his career.

4)  Was exceptionally skilled and intelligent.

5)  Very accurate.

6)  When he bowled Medium pace ... he was a very experienced pacer at international level. 

7)  Most importantly ... a very rare case in international cricket. 

 

 

Our Domestic trundlers usually are 

 

1)  Below 6'0" 

2)  Can't hit the deck hard for bounce

3)  Generally floaty bowlers who don't get much zip off the deck.

4)  Don't bowl with effort but just place the ball there

5)  Lack the skills and accuracy for their medium pace.

 

Chalk and cheese really.

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by express bowling

[express bowling]

In today's televised match of HP vs Services, the most well known pacer was Rishi Dhawan. Someone who has a great average in domestics as a specialist bowler.

 

This is what Dhoni said about him when he was picked for Team India squad  a few years back ....

 

"  it is slightly difficult for somebody like a Rishi to come in. He may bowl well, but I am saying it will be slightly difficult for him to be successful with the fielding restrictions. He is not someone who bowls very quick. " 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espncricinfo.com/story/slightly-difficult-to-pick-rishi-dhawan-ms-dhoni-962511%3fplatform=amp

 

This statement shows where these successful domestic trundlers stand as far as international cricket is concerned, especially coming from a captain who was not known to have any dislike for medium pacers. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by express bowling

[Suhaan]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Exactly !

 

Shaun Pollock was 

 

1)  Very tall hit the deck pacer

2)  Got good zip and bounce off the deck.

3)  Was Fast-medium for the first half of his career.

4)  Was exceptionally skilled and intelligent.

5)  Very accurate.

6)  When he bowled Medium pace ... he was a very experienced pacer at international level. 

7)  Most importantly ... a very rare case in international cricket. 

 

 

Our Domestic trundlers usually are 

 

1)  Below 6'0" 

2)  Can't hit the deck hard for bounce

3)  Generally floaty bowlers

4)  Don't bowl with effort but just place the ball there

5)  Lack the skills and accuracy for their medium pace.

 

Chalk and cheese really.

 

Shaun Pollock would have been no different than Andrew Tye or some other mediocre phoren tall t20 bowler in this age

Anyways its not his fault he played at a different era different time different psych of batsmen back then,but him being successful back then doesn't warrant/merit the argument of pace is not necessary today,it may sound harsh cricket is moving  away from trundlers,those variations which looked natty coming out of the hands of trundlers is much more threatening when it is released by a fast bowler be it tests,odis or t20s now

[Jay]

2 hours ago, urbestfriend said:

Typical stat picking...I extract a particular stat to suit my theory..Any bowlers can be destroyed by this kind of  theories..

For ex: Phil played three tests in India, 2 at the fag end of his career in Phattas where all other bowlers also gone for plenty

Same can be talked about Rabada, Nortje, Starc etc and say that they average above 40 in India and they are shittiest bowler...lol

 

fag end haha. Dude was scared scares tour india and actually chickened out. Faked injuries. 

They are not true greats then. That's the end of the story. . If you don't do well in India which is the toughest place to tour for a sena bowler then you aren't a true great. This applies to bumrah as well. He needs to prove that he can ever age under 25 in India. 

 

Mcgrath is the real MVP. So is steyn. 

 

It's far easier to stat pad for sena bowler due to bowling friendly conditions in their country. That needs to be accounted for as well. Stop being sycophants. Hardest place to excel as a fast bowler is Asia. By far the hardest. 

Edited December 24, 2021 by Jay

[Jay]

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

Only an absolute Idiot won't pick Pollock over Shami. 

 

Also if you are looking at overseas averages then please go through Pollock and Shami's averages in different countries. 

Pollock is in a different league altogether. 

 

Pollock averaged 27 in India against the fab 4, isn't that an achievement,  also 22 in Pakistan and 25 in Sri Lanka Lanka on flat pitches, maybe that counts for nothing in his case. 

 

Also, you hail Ashwin as an atg despite his 40 average in SENA and here you are downplaying a guy who averages below 30 everywhere except in Aus? You see the Hypocrisy? 

If we apply these type of filters to Ashwin 's (or many other great bowlers) you would find many holes in their resume. 

BTW Allan Donald averages 33 in Pak. 

 

Shami averages  32 in Aus, 36 in Nz and 40 in Eng.! 

Different era. Pollock is more like a modern day abbas. If he played in this era he would be the equivalent of an abbas with his trundling pace. Warne averages 45 in India. So he is a piece of **** too I suppose? He averages poor in lanka too iirc. 

Ashwin just helped India win In Australia. What did white abbas trundler do in Australia? The one tough place to tour in that era? 

 

Lol averages don't mean everything otherwise phildtrundl3r would be goat and we all know that is far from the truth. Dude cried and moaned about touring India. He quit before the tour even started. 

 

Shami played a match winning role in 2018 vs australia. What did white abbas do again? It's not just about averages. 

 

To me you got to prove yourself in the toughest places to tour. Pollock did that vs a weak Indian side in 2000 and he dint do all that great the second time he toured against a stronger India. He did nothing of note vs australia at home and away. 

 

And shami again helped India win 2-1 vs england lol. Another match winning performance by shami. 

 

Only place he dint do well is in n.z 

[Lone Wolf]

6 hours ago, Mesky99 said:

Pollack led south Africa's attack from 03-07 until both steyn and morkel became regulars, even while bowling at 125kph Pollack was good enough everywhere and troubled many world class batsmen, there is no glitch in Pollack's numbers except for his 34 average in Australia he averages under 30 everywhere, the man is underated, just one notch below macgrath and ahead of Anderson.

 

Peak Pollock was great to watch...  Of course that serious back injury took a lot out of him but he still remained threatening for a while. 

[urbestfriend]

Who is the highest wicket taker of IPL this year and what is his average speed 

<end of thread>

[Adamant]

3 hours ago, Jay said:

Different era. Pollock is more like a modern day abbas. If he played in this era he would be the equivalent of an abbas with his trundling pace. 

This sums up your cricketing acumen. 

No arguments from my side after this. 

 

You live in a fantasy land where everything you say is true doesn't matter what the facts reveal.

[Adamant]

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

In today's televised match of HP vs Services, the most well known pacer was Rishi Dhawan. Someone who has a great average in domestics as a specialist bowler.

 

Rishi Dhawan was an all rounder and he wasn't even a trundler, he was even slower than Afridi, lol. 

 

The argument here is regarding pacers who bowl 125-135 not 115.

[Jay]

7 minutes ago, Adamant said:

This sums up your cricketing acumen. 

No arguments from my side after this. 

 

You live in a fantasy land where everything you say is true doesn't matter what the facts reveal.

average of 34 away. wait for it. just wait.

average of a whopping 47 lmao vs australia at home. AT HOME GUYS. on those spicy pitches of s.africa.

what a player. If you dont perform against great teams then how can you be classified as an ATG. at best maybe a sena bully who did well in an era where there was no drs or unbiased umpiring. Saffer umpires were notorious for being racists vs sub continent teams. infact donald even called us coolies and some ridiculous terms of that ilk. 

[express bowling]

8 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Rishi Dhawan was an all rounder and he wasn't even a trundler, he was even slower than Afridi, lol. 

 

The argument here is regarding pacers who bowl 125-135 not 115.

 

 

In the 4 matches Rishi Dhawan played for India, he bowled around 123 k to 133 k.  

 

And he has 308 wickets from 79 FC matches averaging 26.9. Just because he can bat does not mean he is not a frontline bowler for his state team.