R!TTER Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said: The only thing India is missing are two solid middle order batsmen. Nothing else, especially on this non spinning pitches. And when the openers eventually fail - which they will, we'd have a misfiring opening slot as well as MO, now what happens when Shami/Ashwin retire? Ashwin isn't retiring anytime soon barring major injury, but Shami is looking flaky lately. Right now we have no one with Jadeja's fielding & tight bowling, you don't really expect Sundar to be the only frontline spinner do you Basically the point is currently with our squad there's too much churn, we need to retire/expire some of the people not deserving another year of tests (like Pujara, Rahane, Saha, limp d*** Sharma) & test the youngsters who've shown promise early on! Not all of Vihari/Shaw/Thakur/Sundar/Gill/Iyer/KL/Pant will be test quality in the long run. That's just a pipe dream, let's see how many of them come out better two years from now! Edited January 13, 2022 by R!TTER Link to comment
Chakdephatte Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, R!TTER said: And when the openers eventually fail - which they will, we'd have a misfiring opening slot as well as MO, now what happens when Shami/Ashwin retire? Ashwin isn't retiring anytime soon barring major injury, but Shami is looking flaky lately. Right now we have no one with Jadeja's fielding & tight bowling, you don't really expect Sundar to be the only frontline spinner do you In South Africa, why not? Spinners are useless here. Jadeja is good in Australia. In England, it depends on whether more than pitches. Some day we may need two spinners, other day, not even one. Four pacers are sufficient, we succeeded with it in England. Jadeja played only because they thought he could bat. So, yes, I think one spinner will be more than enough. It doesn't need to be Sundar though. Ashwin or Jadeja will still play some of the matches. Edited January 13, 2022 by Chakdephatte Link to comment
R!TTER Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said: Jadeja played only because they througt he could bat. He did bat well, he was the 5th(6th?) best bat. You're doing the same thing VVS did before, Sundar actually needs to play in Eng (or SA) before we can say he's better than Jadeja at 7 or 8 down the order! Edited January 13, 2022 by R!TTER Link to comment
Chakdephatte Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, R!TTER said: Sundar actually needs to play in Eng before we can say he's better than Jadeja at 7 or 8 down the order! I didn't say he is better than Jadeja. But what's wrong with trying him? 3 minutes ago, R!TTER said: He did bat well, he was the 5th(6th?) best bat. That's your opinion, I will rather say your bias. Edited January 13, 2022 by Chakdephatte Link to comment
R!TTER Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said: That's your opinion, I will rather say your bias. Sure but let's not pretend the "opinions" against Jadeja aren't biased - I gave you the numbers earlier in the thread, he's statistically India's 4th best batter in S.E.N.A. playing alongside a lower order with these stats! Overall figures Team Players Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s South Africa 8 2019-2019 3 24 5 397 72 20.89 1023 38.80 0 2 4 54 6 Sri Lanka 6 2017-2017 3 19 6 205 67 15.76 438 46.80 0 1 5 25 2 England 15 2016-2021 8 60 12 617 66* 12.85 1596 38.65 0 3 12 67 9 Bangladesh 8 2017-2019 3 24 6 224 51 12.44 591 37.90 0 1 2 37 1 India 14 2018-2022 25 169 42 1460 86* 11.49 2756 52.97 0 5 40 172 20 Australia 6 2017-2017 4 29 6 240 61 10.43 547 43.87 0 1 8 27 8 New Zealand 12 2016-2021 6 44 11 331 47 10.03 884 37.44 0 0 12 35 8 Among the 5 fifties in there a couple are by Thakur & probably couple by Ashiwn/Jadeja combined. Our tail is categorically sh!t & Pants been a one series wonder in Oz so far! Edited January 13, 2022 by R!TTER Lord 1 Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Majestic said: I have learnt with time that unless people have performed over a course of 25-30 tests, there is no point in living with any hope. The ones with extreme level of ability have faltered (KL for example). After 25 tests Jaddu was averaging 26. Ashwin was averaging 36. Infact Jaddu did not cross average of 30 until 35 tests. Ashwin was 41 after first 20 tests. Jaddu was like 24. Ashwin was not a specialist batsman. Jadeja was. Let that sink in. It took eons to establish himself as a batsman. Kudos to him develop himself as a bowler. As a batsman he doesn't belong to another planet. He is no Shakib Al Hasan. Link to comment
Lord Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Jadeja is better in both areas in SENA Meanwhile another poor display by bat by Ash Link to comment
Lord Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 6 hours ago, vvvslaxman said: After 25 tests Jaddu was averaging 26. Ashwin was averaging 36. Infact Jaddu did not cross average of 30 until 35 tests. Ashwin was 41 after first 20 tests. Jaddu was like 24. Ashwin was not a specialist batsman. Jadeja was. Let that sink in. It took eons to establish himself as a batsman. Kudos to him develop himself as a bowler. As a batsman he doesn't belong to another planet. He is no Shakib Al Hasan. lol stop misleading. Jaddu always batted at 7-8. Specialist bats dont do that. And was a good bowler from the start (Tests) AuxiliA 1 Link to comment
Majestic Posted January 13, 2022 Author Share Posted January 13, 2022 7 hours ago, R!TTER said: And when the openers eventually fail - which they will, we'd have a misfiring opening slot as well as MO, now what happens when Shami/Ashwin retire? Ashwin isn't retiring anytime soon barring major injury, but Shami is looking flaky lately. Right now we have no one with Jadeja's fielding & tight bowling, you don't really expect Sundar to be the only frontline spinner do you Basically the point is currently with our squad there's too much churn, we need to retire/expire some of the people not deserving another year of tests (like Pujara, Rahane, Saha, limp d*** Sharma) & test the youngsters who've shown promise early on! Not all of Vihari/Shaw/Thakur/Sundar/Gill/Iyer/KL/Pant will be test quality in the long run. That's just a pipe dream, let's see how many of them come out better two years from now! Simple Question. Would you feel they have justified if they become a Rohit Sharma level test cricketer? Average of 80 at home and 30 away. Link to comment
Lord Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 7 hours ago, Chakdephatte said: I didn't say he is better than Jadeja. But what's wrong with trying him? That's your opinion, I will rather say your bias. Sundar will be wasted at 7. Hes much better and should replace Rahane Link to comment
rkt.india Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 8 hours ago, Chakdephatte said: In South Africa, why not? Spinners are useless here. Jadeja is good in Australia. In England, it depends on whether more than pitches. Some day we may need two spinners, other day, not even one. Four pacers are sufficient, we succeeded with it in England. Jadeja played only because they thought he could bat. So, yes, I think one spinner will be more than enough. It doesn't need to be Sundar though. Ashwin or Jadeja will still play some of the matches. You do not need two spinners anywhere in SENA Link to comment
Chakdephatte Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Lord said: Jadeja is better in both areas in SENA Meanwhile another poor display by bat by Ash This thread is not about Jadeja vs. Ashwin. On topic, 36 vs 38, not a lot of difference. Ashwin sucks in South Africa, but a much better bowler in both England and Australia. Link to comment
Lord Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 12 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said: This thread is not about Jadeja vs. Ashwin. On topic, 36 vs 38, not a lot of difference. Ashwin sucks in South Africa, but a much better bowler in both England and Australia. that's almost all the posts in this thread Jadeja averages 21 in Aus with ball,Ashwin 42. Much better Link to comment
Chakdephatte Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Lord said: that's almost all the posts in this thread Jadeja averages 21 in Aus with ball,Ashwin 42. Much better Don't know the numbers. Ashwin bowled a lot better in last series. Averaged in 20s iirc. Lord 1 Link to comment
R!TTER Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 17 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said: This thread is not about Jadeja vs. Ashwin. On topic, 36 vs 38, not a lot of difference. Ashwin sucks in South Africa, but a much better bowler in both England and Australia. You need to stop digging that manhole VVS opened Lord 1 Link to comment
Lord Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said: Don't know the numbers. Ashwin bowled a lot better in last series. Averaged in 20s iirc. Ashwin 28,Jaddu 15 in the series Link to comment
AuxiliA Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 8 hours ago, vvvslaxman said: After 25 tests Jaddu was averaging 26. Ashwin was averaging 36. Infact Jaddu did not cross average of 30 until 35 tests. Ashwin was 41 after first 20 tests. Jaddu was like 24. Ashwin was not a specialist batsman. Jadeja was. Let that sink in. It took eons to establish himself as a batsman. Kudos to him develop himself as a bowler. As a batsman he doesn't belong to another planet. He is no Shakib Al Hasan. Tbh for someone who is a big Ashwin fan and a good poster, I find your assessment of Jadeja highly hypocritical and contradictory. Both have almost the same utility as a test allrounder. Ashwin is a better bowler and Jadeja a better batsman(& fielder). Their SENA records are almost identical (with Jadeja being slightly ahead). Yet you go through great lengths and filters to put down Jadeja, at the same time turning a blind eye to Ashwin's shortcomings. Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 16 minutes ago, AuxiliA said: Tbh for someone who is a big Ashwin fan and a good poster, I find your assessment of Jadeja highly hypocritical and contradictory. Both have almost the same utility as a test allrounder. Ashwin is a better bowler and Jadeja a better batsman(& fielder). Their SENA records are almost identical (with Jadeja being slightly ahead). Yet you go through great lengths and filters to put down Jadeja, at the same time turning a blind eye to Ashwin's shortcomings. S is not the same as E or A or N. Here you get prodigious bounce movement. Neither of them are Jaddu's friends. He has been exposed against short balls time and again even when he was batting well. In England may be, Australia certainly. But in SA it is a different ball game. I am not sure if he will ever get a chance. But i don't think he is good enough to handle the steep bounce from either Jansen or KG. Link to comment
AuxiliA Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said: S is not the same as E or A or N. Here you get prodigious bounce movement. Neither of them are Jaddu's friends. He has been exposed against short balls time and again even when he was batting well. In England may be, Australia certainly. But in SA it is a different ball game. I am not sure if he will ever get a chance. But i don't think he is good enough to handle the steep bounce from either Jansen or KG. And is Ashwin good enough? Of course Jadeja will struggle against steep bounce. Even pure batsmen do and he is just an AR. You set the bar so high for him lol. (As per stats posted above), Jadeja averages a good 6.5 runs more than Ashwin in SENA. Jadeja has 5 fifties, Ashwin has 2. He even averages a couple of points better than Ashwin with the ball in SENA! Jadeja has 1 fifer, Ashwin has none. If you add his (miles) better fielding, running between the wkts and him being a lefty, Jadeja clearly has a better case for selection as the lone spinner in SENA. It's not a surprise the team choose to go with him in England. Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Just now, AuxiliA said: And is Ashwin good enough? Of course Jadeja will struggle against steep bounce. Even pure batsmen do and he is just an AR. You set the bar so high for him lol. (As per stats posted above), Jadeja averages a good 6.5 runs more than Ashwin in SENA. Jadeja has 5 fifties, Ashwin has 2. He even averages a couple of points better than Ashwin with the ball in SENA! Jadeja has 1 fifer, Ashwin has none. If you add his (miles) better fielding, running between the wkts and him being a lefty, Jadeja clearly has a better case for selection as the lone spinner in SENA. It's not a surprise the team choose to go with him in England. Ashwin is certainly not good enough either. Both are not going to be. India needed a 7+4 combo probably. But bowlers getting injured became a real concern. Link to comment
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