Sehwag versus GC Smith

[Trichromatic]

54 minutes ago, zen said:

One has to pick a player with a global mindset (not Indian) …  SENA teams would love to have someone like Sehwag to allow them to dominate in Asia 

 

Imagine Sehwag playing for Aus, which could have won more series in Asia. At home in Aus, Sehwag would have been great as well!

 

With Ashwin, it's narrow mindset of Ashwin who can dominate in Asia.

 

With Sehwag it's global mindset not Indian mindset to pick the player. 

 

Comedy gold of ICF.

[Adamant]

Sehwag was one of a kind and he is the kind of player who will be remembered even a century from now coz of the way he batted. 

His attitude was the only thing which separated him from other players, that and the hand eye coordination made a pair which hardly ever existed. 

 

I know it's cliche but there are some players who aren't actually defined by statistics alone even though they have great numbers- Sehwag is one of them

 

Others who belong to the same category are - Gary Sobers, Viv Richards ,Adam Gilchrist, Kapil Dev, Ian Botham, Yuvraj Singh(lois) , Shoaib Akhtar, Sanath Jayasuriya, Andrew Symonds(lois),  Barry Richards, Mike Procter, Andrew Flintoff, Ben Stokes etc. 

[Adamant]

20 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Cook is also an all conditions bat though.

No where as good as Graeme Smith away from home. 

Also he failed a lot against great pace bowling attacks and scored a lot of runs whenever he got a chance to bat against depleted attacks. Still a great opener but in comparison to the others I keep him at 4.

 

For example - 

His performance in Australia - 

He failed every time he had to face a great bowling attack while scored runs only when Siddle and Hilfenhaus, doherty were their main bowlers 011.

He failed in 2007, 2013 and 2017 except in the infamous drop in pitch in 2017 where he made 200+.

 

Please note that this is just to specify that I rate others better and not to put him down, cricket isn't a linear game also he played most of his games in English conditions, so not as easy to predict , lol. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Adamant

[zen]

21 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

With Ashwin, it's narrow mindset of Ashwin who can dominate in Asia.

 

With Sehwag it's global mindset not Indian mindset to pick the player. 

 

Comedy gold of ICF.

Ashwin mostly only works on rank turners (has not even picked up a 5-er in SENA. Unlikely to even dominate in Pak) … Sehwag has won India series in Pak, batted well on turning pitches in SL, hit 100s in Aus (lone wolf), Eng, etc. 

 

Many times Sehwag got out trying to dominate the attack. For e.g. in NZ he scored 2 100s in ODIs on green pitches but in the tests got out trying to attack hard 

 
Please stop using desi logic (it mostly works with desis in India who form their opinions by mostly interacting with each other, one of the reasons India has never realized its potential in any field)  

Edited February 2, 2022 by zen

[Trichromatic]

3 minutes ago, zen said:

Ashwin mostly only works on rank turners (has not even picked up a 5-er) … Sehwag has won India in flat pitches in Pak, batted well on turning pitches in SL, hit 100s in Aus (lone wolf), Eng, etc. 

 

Many times Sehwag got out trying to dominate the attack. For e.g. in NZ he scored 2 100s in ODIs on green pitches but in the tests got out trying to attack hard 

 
Please stop using desi logic (it mostly works with desis in India who form their opinions by mostly interacting with each other, one of the reasons India has never realized its potential in any field)  

 

You can't be more wrong. Ashwin has performed even on flat pitches of Asia. 

 

He did well even in Aus. 

 

If one has to pick a player to win matches in Asia, they will pick Ashwin v Sehwag anyday.

 

Former is responsible for W/L ratio of 15 v later who had lower W/L than in 90s.

 

Ashwin is the rare match winner you're looking for. W/L of 15 is completely unheard of in history of cricket.

[Trichromatic]

343 wickets in Asia with 28 5-fers in 56 matches.

 

No Indian player has come close to that kind of performance.

 

No Indian player has been more impactful in Asia.

[Adamant]

Ashwin vs Sehwag - pick one in Asia? 

 

If that is is the question then I will go with Ashwin and that's because he is ann allrounder in Asian conditions and actually has won the most man of the series awards for India (9), 2 less than Murali who has won 11. 

 

I think Ashwin wins comfortably in Asian conditions 

 

 

Also Ashwin not only defeats Sehwag but he is my pick above anyone in history of test cricket if the test match is played in Asia. 

Dream Cricketer in Asian conditions. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Adamant

[zen]

6 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

You can't be more wrong. Ashwin has performed even on flat pitches of Asia. 

 

He did well even in Aus. 

 

If one has to pick a player to win matches in Asia, they will pick Ashwin v Sehwag anyday.

 

Former is responsible for W/L ratio of 15 v later who had lower W/L than in 90s.

 

Ashwin is the rare match winner you're looking for. W/L of 15 is completely unheard of in history of cricket.

The rank turners have hurt India cricket more as it is delaying the development a team that can be like the great Aus or WI 

W/L ratio depends upon a lot of factors … We just saw what a prime Aswhin did in SA, where Sehwag has a 100; We saw how Ashwin bowled to Pak in ICC events (Pak will smash him in tests too), where Sehwag has a Bradmanesque record in tests 

 

Sehwag is Bradmanesque in Asia!

[Vijy]

Smith was one of the best chasers I've seen. And Sehwag is the most destructive top order batter since WW2 in Tests. certainly 2 of the greatest openers in the post-2000 era, along with matt hayden

[Trichromatic]

24 minutes ago, zen said:

The rank turners have hurt India cricket more as it is delaying the development a team that can be like the great Aus or WI 

W/L ratio depends upon a lot of factors … We just saw what a prime Aswhin did in SA, where Sehwag has a 100; We saw how Ashwin bowled to Pak in ICC events (Pak will smash him in tests too), where Sehwag has a Bradmanesque record in tests 

 

Sehwag is Bradmanesque in Asia!

 

Bradman had 29 centuries in 52 matches. 

 

Ashwin has 28 5-fers in 56 matches in Asia. 

 

Ashwin won a series in Aus. 

 

Ashwin averages 28 in Eng. 

[zen]

13 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Bradman had 29 centuries in 52 matches. 

 

Ashwin has 28 5-fers in 56 matches in Asia. 

 

Ashwin won a series in Aus. 

 

Ashwin averages 28 in Eng. 

 

Bradman record is from playing at most countries of his time … Ashwin’s just India (relying on rank turners where even a newbie Axar can dance)  

Edited February 2, 2022 by zen

[zen]

25 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Smith was one of the best chasers I've seen. And Sehwag is the most destructive top order batter since WW2 in Tests. certainly 2 of the greatest openers in the post-2000 era, along with matt hayden

Pick one  

[Trichromatic]

8 minutes ago, zen said:

 

Bradman record is from playing at most countries of his time … Ashwin’s just India (relying on rank turners where even a newbie Axar can dance)  

 

W/L of 15 -- shows who has actual rare match winning ability.

 

Still waiting for explanation of following numbers:

 

90s - W/L - 3.4

Sehwag's rare match winning ability - W/L - 3.1

Post Sehwag - 15.

 

Surely Indian batting is not superior to what they had in 2000s. They are playing Rahane at #6.

 

Indian pacers are not huge factor.

 

There is only 1 name to explain that - Ravichandran Ashwin.

 

 

[Trichromatic]

Talking about strike rates

 

Ashwin tops charts: No Test spinner in last 100 years has a better strike-rate | Cricket - Hindustan Times

 

 

[zen]

5 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

W/L of 15 -- shows who has actual rare match winning ability.

 

Still waiting for explanation of following numbers:

 

90s - W/L - 3.4

Sehwag's rare match winning ability - W/L - 3.1

Post Sehwag - 15.

 

Surely Indian batting is not superior to what they had in 2000s. They are playing Rahane at #6.

 

Indian pacers are not huge factor.

 

There is only 1 name to explain that - Ravichandran Ashwin.

 

 

 ... and in your mind, Jason Langer is a bigger match winner than Don Bradman 

 

Aus 1928-48 W/L 2.5

Aus 1993-07 W/L 3.4

 

 

[Trichromatic]

3 minutes ago, zen said:

 

 ... and in your mind, Jason Langer is a bigger match winner than Don Bradman 

 

Aus 1928-48 W/L 2.5

Aus 1993-07 W/L 3.4

 

 

 

Lame joke.

[zen]

Just now, Trichromatic said:

 

Was Langer top run getter for Aus?

 

Feel free to use whoever you want from that period ,,, it is you who is coming up with irrelevant points (and Ashwin, on a batting thread, whom I have zero interest in)

[Trichromatic]

24 minutes ago, zen said:

 

Feel free to use whoever you want from that period ,,, it is you who is coming up with irrelevant points (and Ashwin, on a batting thread, whom I have zero interest in)

 

It's a thread with claims which you're not able to back up. 

 

Ashwin is biggest reason why India has unparalleled Asian record and true example of rare match winning ability with Bradmanesque performance is subcontinent. 

 

Bringing Langer into picture who wasn't even among best 5 batsmen of his team is more irrelevant. 

[zen]

11 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

It's a thread with claims which you're not able to back up. 

 

Ashwin is biggest reason why India has unparalleled Asian record and true example of rare match winning ability with Bradmanesque performance is subcontinent. 

 

Bringing Langer into picture who wasn't even among best 5 batsmen of his team is more irrelevant. 

 

This is a pick one thread. You can pick any player b/w the two selected based on any cricketing reasoning. 

 

On Sehwag versus Ashwin if they played for Aus, let me explain to you: 

 

a) Aus comes to Ind. 

b) Its batsman play Indian spinners. 

c) Indian spinners do not bowl to Indian batsman. 

 

Now if Sehwag played for Aus:

 

a) Sehwag plays against Indian spinners in Ind

 

Now if Ashwin played for Aus:

 

a) Ashwin bowls to Indian batsmen (not Aus batsmen) in Ind 

 

 

 

As for Ashwin's record, we know how rank turners have helped Indian spinners including Jadeja and Axar, bowling to less fancied against spin batsman. 

 

As for Sehwag, he has batted well in spin friendly conditions against much better spin bowlers like Murali (Spin friendly conditions give advantage to spinners, not batsman)

 

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by zen

[Majestic]

6 hours ago, zen said:

 

Overseas, opening is a tough job. I am not sure if Laxman could have made much impact if he opened … He had his phase in 2001-02 where he was batting at his best but threw his wkt away many times including in Zim … The discussion here is on openers 

 

We can do a discussion on a #5-6 subcon batsman versus a #5-6 SENA batsman. Can do a Laxman versus someone but those playing at that position for SENA are heavy weights (S Waugh for example) where Laxman would not have a chance

 

On Sehwag, there is not too many such batsman. Points made for Smith can also be made for Mark Taylor (a great captain though), Langer, or even maybe Attapatu against Sehwag, but Sehwag is likely to be in more world AT11 than these guys

Smith was a level superior bat to Sehwag as he has performed and won matches everywhere while Sehwag has poor batting stats in SEN with tailender level performance ( Avg of 20,25 and 27 in SEN), the places where there is lateral movement and a challenge for openers to deal with.

 

South Africa are a bit underrated as cricket nation due to not being part of Big 3 so yes because of that Sehwag, Hayden and Cook are more likely to get into AT XI than Smith would.

 

I have already proved that Laxman has won more matches than Sehwag has even performed in SENA conditions. Perth, Johannesburg, Durban, Adelaide, Sydney and Napier( again everyone contributed with bat to save the test match and won the series except one man who threw away his wicket), these are several memorable performances by Laxman. Sehwag had only Adelaide 07 and Melbourne 03. KL Rahul has also won more matches than Sehwag in SEN and he is an opener.