Sehwag versus GC Smith

[AuxiliA]

Sehwag was unique in test cricket. He had the rare ability to turn matches inside a season with the bat. Teams feared him more than a Smith, Dravid or Cook. 

 

He had his flaws(many of which are exaggerated) but I will gladly take Sehwag over several ATGs. 

[Jay]

2 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

Didn't know Sundar was 2nd highest wicket taker in Aus 2020 series.

 

Thanks for the info.

 

Ashwin wins majority of matches at home on flat pitches, wins on rank turners. Highest wicket taker, 50% 5-fer and 10-fers and responsible for W/L of 15. He leeches.

 

Sehwag feasted on flat pitches, even failed on flat pitches overseas. Not much difference in results at home. He is rare match winner.

 

Great logic.

I think zen and many here have't played competitive high grade cricket. It's not just conditions. Believe it or not the BALL makes a huge difference. Yes who would have thought hey?sg ball is not the same as a kookaburra or a dukes. The lacquer and the whole composition of the ball varies. Different materials are utilised for seam threading and there are variances obviously with kookaburra balls which uses cow leather etc.

[zen]

10 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

 

 

Ashwin was the 2nd highest wicket taker in Australia and won the series with his all round performances in 2020

 

How many spinners have managed to do that in Aus?

 

Hallmark of true rare match winner.

 

Match winner stepped up and saved a match in Aus at Sydney even with bat.

 

Pitches were super flat even in 2000s. Tailor made for batsman to score on highways all over the world. Yet Sehwag averages 20s in many countries. India played lot of matches on flat pitches even India unlike 2000s where there were very few turners to play on. If anything pitches were more tilted in favor of batsmen in 2000s than it is tilted in favor of spinners post Sehwag.

 

Agarwal doesn't try to bat in that fashion in test cricket.

 

Replace Sehwag with any other batsman, you won't lose much in India. On the other hand Ashwin has given what no other team has been able to achieve in history of test cricket.

 

Ashwin is the most valuable player in Asian conditions, rare match winner by some distance. 

You are repeating the same irrelevant stuff and that too on a thread that is not on Ashwin … Ashwin leeched on tailored pitches (could be smashed in Pakistan too), playing in SENA for over a decade and yet to pick up even a 5-er  

If the idea is to repeat stuff:

Primary team India

Opposition team Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or South Africa

Home or away away (home of opposition)

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2010

Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 20

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
SN Thakur	2021-2022	6	12	164.5	26	538	26	7/61	8/108	20.69	3.26	38.0	1	0
JJ Bumrah	2018-2022	22	43	837.5	202	2242	96	6/33	9/86	23.35	2.67	52.3	5	0
B Kumar	2014-2018	8	13	281.5	72	877	30	6/82	6/103	29.23	3.11	56.3	2	0
Mohammed Shami	2013-2022	31	57	1055.1	179	3635	113	6/56	8/107	32.16	3.44	56.0	4	0
Mohammed Siraj	2020-2022	9	17	310.1	64	967	30	5/73	8/126	32.23	3.11	62.0	1	0
Z Khan	2010-2014	11	18	435.5	74	1443	43	5/170	7/130	33.55	3.31	60.8	1	0
I Sharma	2010-2021	34	59	1230.0	218	4032	113	7/74	9/162	35.68	3.27	65.3	5	0
RA Jadeja	2013-2021	17	29	648.5	123	1712	47	6/138	7/258	36.42	2.63	82.8	1	0
UT Yadav	2011-2022	14	26	431.3	55	1774	44	5/93	7/176	40.31	4.11	58.8	1	0
R Ashwin	2011-2022	23	40	947.3	155	2709	66	4/55	7/121	41.04	2.85	86.1	0	0

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by zen

[Trichromatic]

7 hours ago, zen said:

You are repeating the same irrelevant stuff and that too on a thread that is not on Ashwin … Ashwin leeched on tailored pitches (could be smashed in Pakistan too), playing in SENA for over a decade and yet to pick up even a 5-er  

If the idea is to repeat stuff:

Primary team India

Opposition team Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or South Africa

Home or away away (home of opposition)

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2010

Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 20

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
SN Thakur	2021-2022	6	12	164.5	26	538	26	7/61	8/108	20.69	3.26	38.0	1	0
JJ Bumrah	2018-2022	22	43	837.5	202	2242	96	6/33	9/86	23.35	2.67	52.3	5	0
B Kumar	2014-2018	8	13	281.5	72	877	30	6/82	6/103	29.23	3.11	56.3	2	0
Mohammed Shami	2013-2022	31	57	1055.1	179	3635	113	6/56	8/107	32.16	3.44	56.0	4	0
Mohammed Siraj	2020-2022	9	17	310.1	64	967	30	5/73	8/126	32.23	3.11	62.0	1	0
Z Khan	2010-2014	11	18	435.5	74	1443	43	5/170	7/130	33.55	3.31	60.8	1	0
I Sharma	2010-2021	34	59	1230.0	218	4032	113	7/74	9/162	35.68	3.27	65.3	5	0
RA Jadeja	2013-2021	17	29	648.5	123	1712	47	6/138	7/258	36.42	2.63	82.8	1	0
UT Yadav	2011-2022	14	26	431.3	55	1774	44	5/93	7/176	40.31	4.11	58.8	1	0
R Ashwin	2011-2022	23	40	947.3	155	2709	66	4/55	7/121	41.04	2.85	86.1	0	0

 

 

Yes, winning matches are irrelevant.

[Trichromatic]

7 hours ago, zen said:

You are repeating the same irrelevant stuff and that too on a thread that is not on Ashwin … Ashwin leeched on tailored pitches (could be smashed in Pakistan too), playing in SENA for over a decade and yet to pick up even a 5-er  

If the idea is to repeat stuff:

Primary team India

Opposition team Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or South Africa

Home or away away (home of opposition)

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2010

Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 20

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
SN Thakur	2021-2022	6	12	164.5	26	538	26	7/61	8/108	20.69	3.26	38.0	1	0
JJ Bumrah	2018-2022	22	43	837.5	202	2242	96	6/33	9/86	23.35	2.67	52.3	5	0
B Kumar	2014-2018	8	13	281.5	72	877	30	6/82	6/103	29.23	3.11	56.3	2	0
Mohammed Shami	2013-2022	31	57	1055.1	179	3635	113	6/56	8/107	32.16	3.44	56.0	4	0
Mohammed Siraj	2020-2022	9	17	310.1	64	967	30	5/73	8/126	32.23	3.11	62.0	1	0
Z Khan	2010-2014	11	18	435.5	74	1443	43	5/170	7/130	33.55	3.31	60.8	1	0
I Sharma	2010-2021	34	59	1230.0	218	4032	113	7/74	9/162	35.68	3.27	65.3	5	0
RA Jadeja	2013-2021	17	29	648.5	123	1712	47	6/138	7/258	36.42	2.63	82.8	1	0
UT Yadav	2011-2022	14	26	431.3	55	1774	44	5/93	7/176	40.31	4.11	58.8	1	0
R Ashwin	2011-2022	23	40	947.3	155	2709	66	4/55	7/121	41.04	2.85	86.1	0	0

 

 

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team India http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif

Host country England http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or New Zealand http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or South Africa http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif

Start of match date between 1 Jan 1990 and 31 Dec 2022 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 300 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Page 1 of 1

Showing 1 - 30 of 30

http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/ciPhotoFirst-icon_13x13.gifFirst http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/ciPhotoPrev-disable-icon_13x13.gifPrevious

Next http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/ciPhotoNext-disable.gif Last http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/ciPhotoLast-disable.gif

http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/dblBakArwB.gifReturn to query menu http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/dblBakArwW.gifCleared query menu

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
R Dravid	1996-2011	31	59	6	2766	217	52.18	6492	42.60	9	11	1	386	1	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
SR Tendulkar	1990-2011	43	76	5	3578	193	50.39	6734	53.13	11	16	3	512	16	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
SC Ganguly	1996-2007	21	39	4	1615	136	46.14	2909	55.51	4	9	3	224	14	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
M Azharuddin	1990-1999	19	30	1	1269	192	43.75	1849	68.63	5	3	1	167	3	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
G Gambhir	2009-2014	10	20	1	814	167	42.84	1896	42.93	2	4	1	102	2	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
RJ Shastri	1990-1992	6	10	0	395	187	39.50	1135	34.80	2	0	0	46	1	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
V Kohli	2013-2022	26	51	1	1973	153	39.46	3814	51.73	5	9	4	244	3	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
VVS Laxman	1997-2011	26	46	7	1474	124*	37.79	3084	47.79	1	11	2	211	2	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
MS Dhoni	2006-2014	23	42	3	1420	92	36.41	2467	57.55	0	12	4	196	14	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
N Kapil Dev	1990-1994	11	15	1	495	129	35.35	696	71.12	2	1	1	57	9	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
M Prabhakar	1990-1993	10	16	2	479	95	34.21	1218	39.32	0	4	0	50	0	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
KD Karthik	2007-2018	7	13	1	391	91	32.58	825	47.39	0	4	2	49	1	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
RG Sharma	2013-2021	12	24	2	711	127	32.31	1675	42.44	1	3	2	80	7	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
KL Rahul	2018-2022	14	28	0	870	149	31.07	1831	47.51	3	2	3	121	4	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
AM Rahane	2013-2022	25	48	2	1384	118	30.08	2988	46.31	2	8	4	176	6	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
B Kumar	2014-2018	7	14	2	348	63*	29.00	769	45.25	0	3	2	49	0	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
SV Manjrekar	1990-1996	13	22	3	541	93	28.47	1455	37.18	0	3	1	61	1	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
KS More	1990-1993	10	13	1	328	73	27.33	832	39.42	0	4	1	39	0	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
CA Pujara	2010-2022	28	55	2	1445	153	27.26	3869	37.34	2	8	4	194	1	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
W Jaffer	2002-2007	8	16	0	429	116	26.81	929	46.17	1	3	2	59	1	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
RA Jadeja	2013-2021	14	26	3	582	86*	25.30	1080	53.88	0	3	2	78	9	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
S Dhawan	2013-2018	12	24	0	607	115	25.29	1071	56.67	1	1	1	81	2	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
M Vijay	2010-2018	15	30	0	754	146	25.13	2041	36.94	1	3	3	107	2	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
RR Pant	2018-2022	13	25	1	599	114	24.95	1045	57.32	2	1	2	64	12	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
V Sehwag	2001-2011	19	34	0	840	106	24.70	1179	71.24	2	2	5	139	5	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
R Ashwin	2013-2022	14	28	4	462	46*	19.25	639	72.30	0	0	1	61	3	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Harbhajan Singh	1998-2011	15	24	0	376	60	15.66	486	77.36	0	2	5	54	7	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Z Khan	2001-2014	23	37	8	416	51*	14.34	798	52.13	0	1	9	50	8	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
A Kumble	1990-2007	25	38	4	451	110*	13.26	1287	35.04	1	0	6	54	2	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Mohammed Shami	2013-2022	24	46	10	347	56*	9.63	513	67.64	0	2	11	43	6

 

If given more opportunities earlier, Ashwin might have better average than Sehwag in these 3 countries. BTW even Ashwin has SR of 70+ in SEN.

 

Performances in Australia for Ashwin.

1. Saving the match with bat in Sydney.

2. Series winning bowling performances in 2020.

 

Performance in Asia

1. Highest wicket taker

2. Biggest reason of W/L of 15 which is rare.

 

Easy to tell that Ashwin is biggest rare match winner India ever had. 

[zen]

1 hour ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Yes, winning matches are irrelevant.

 

Splendid reading comprehension skills!

 

 

1 hour ago, Trichromatic said:

If given more opportunities earlier, Ashwin might have better average than Sehwag in these 3 countries.

 

Superb, one is a top order batsman (#1-3), opening in most challenging conditions for an Indian batsman (and playing at a SR of 70+) with 2 100s and 2 50s in SEN (and another 2 100s & 5 50s in Aus), while the other is a lower order or even tailender level batsman in SEN yet to hit a 50 ... Good to know that you think that Ashwin, who has not even hit a 50 (and not even picked up a 5-er in bowling) in 28 innings, would do well (when not many would consider him for opening, and Sehwag can do much better in the lower order)

 

 

1 hour ago, Trichromatic said:

Performances in Australia for Ashwin.

1. Saving the match with bat in Sydney.

2. Series winning bowling performances in 2020.

 

Performance in Asia

1. Highest wicket taker

2. Biggest reason of W/L of 15 which is rare.

 

Easy to tell that Ashwin is biggest rare match winner India ever had. 

 

Based on your deductions (using logical fallacies) so far, if it is easy to tell for you, the opposite is likely to be the case 

 

Thank you!! 

 

 

 

PS Reflect on your statements below:

 

Quote

Everyone knows 2003-2013 was flattest batting era

 

Quote

 

90s - W/L - 3.4

Sehwag's rare match winning ability - W/L - 3.1

Post Sehwag - 15.

 

 

 

So on one hand, you want to say that Sehwag era was batting friendly, and  on the other hand, post W/L ratio of post Sehwag era which is bowling friendly (by your own statement, you should be at least able to deduce one of the reasons for variances in W/L ratios across periods -> told you many times about different opposition, teams, form, conditions, ..., along with providing the Langer example)   

 

Buddy, also everyone who knows knows that no matter what the pitch if a batsman makes a mistake (or even if fielder takes a splendid catch for e.g.) he is gone, while a bowler has multiple chances to come back in an inning (even after doing badly in a spell), pitches usually help spinners as the match progresses, and so on 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by zen

[Majestic]

Sehwag was a subcontinent track bully. He won't add enough utility to his own country as like Mayank Agarwal, he too was an Asian bully and Mayank doesn't get into Indian best team in Tests.

 

Graeme Smith is miles better. Thanks.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Majestic

[Trichromatic]

7 hours ago, zen said:

So on one hand, you want to say that Sehwag era was batting friendly, and  on the other hand, post W/L ratio of post Sehwag era which is bowling friendly (by your own statement, you should be at least able to deduce one of the reasons for variances in W/L ratios across periods -> told you many times about different opposition, teams, form, conditions, ..., along with providing the Langer example)   

 

Buddy, also everyone who knows knows that no matter what the pitch if a batsman makes a mistake (or even if fielder takes a splendid catch for e.g.) he is gone, while a bowler has multiple chances to come back in an inning (even after doing badly in a spell), pitches usually help spinners as the match progresses, and so on 

 

 

 

1. Sehwag batted in most batting friendly decade of last 7 decades. Then you ignore this point

Ashwin bowled in relatively less batting friendly (but not most bowling friendly) decade and you complain about pitches which Ashwin got.

Do you see the inconsistently in your logic there?

 

2. Ashwin played 60% home series in batting friendly conditions. 15% in conditions suitable having something for all. Remaining on turners -- and you keep highlighting this again and again.

Ashwin has multiple 10-fers on highways and won India those matches.

Sehwag played 90% matches in batting friendly conditions. All the innings you posted were on highways. Can you post some of his double 100s in India on rank turners just like Ashwin has 10-fers on highways?

 

3. Ashwin was single biggest reason for India having such superior W/L ratio. Pitches were similar in 90s, but W/L ratio was 3.4 compared to 15 in last 9 years. Sehwag was a major differentiating factor in India winning matches at home. India wins match with any batsman.

 

4. I agree that batsman is gone if he makes a mistake. That's why batsman is not a match winner in tests. You want to claim that Sehwag is rare match winner which he isn't. Yet to see a proof of this. Apart from 83 v England there is no other inning which helped India win any improbable match in India. For ex - when you take Gabba chase, it was rare match win because it was considered improbable, chasing 320 on day 5 in Aus. 350 was improbable. But apart from that you mention other knocks, was the win improbable? Do people think that without Sehwag India would have won lesser matches, unlikely. When Dhoni and Kohli are said to be great chasing match winners, it is reflected in types of clutch knocks the played where improbable matches were won. And without them India is struggling is chase scores. Can same be said by Sehwag? Without Sehwag, India had better W/L at home in 90s, way higher W/L post his career. Where is the evidence of being rare match winner at home?

 

5. Sehwag's batting in SEN countries is nothing to write about. He is placed along with Ashwin the batsman with an avg of 24 and 19 respectively. Ashwin in addition to that bowling average of 28 in England which is good for spinner.

 

6. Sehwag's performance is good in Aus on flattest pitches he played on against weakest Aus bowling attacks. Yet there are 0 matches won by him, 1 match drawn. Ashwin bowled on flat pitches in 2014 and pacer friendly (still good for batting conditions) in 2018 and 2020. Yet he managed to draw one test with bat at Sydney and that too an improbable draw. Additionally he was 2nd highest wicket taker in the series which India won. That's rare series winning performance from a off spinner in Aus. 

[zen]

49 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

1. Sehwag batted in most batting friendly decade of last 7 decades. Then you ignore this point

Ashwin bowled in relatively less batting friendly (but not most bowling friendly) decade and you complain about pitches which Ashwin got.

Do you see the inconsistently in your logic there?

 

2. Ashwin played 60% home series in batting friendly conditions. 15% in conditions suitable having something for all. Remaining on turners -- and you keep highlighting this again and again.

Ashwin has multiple 10-fers on highways and won India those matches.

Sehwag played 90% matches in batting friendly conditions. All the innings you posted were on highways. Can you post some of his double 100s in India on rank turners just like Ashwin has 10-fers on highways?

 

3. Ashwin was single biggest reason for India having such superior W/L ratio. Pitches were similar in 90s, but W/L ratio was 3.4 compared to 15 in last 9 years. Sehwag was a major differentiating factor in India winning matches at home. India wins match with any batsman.

 

4. I agree that batsman is gone if he makes a mistake. That's why batsman is not a match winner in tests. You want to claim that Sehwag is rare match winner which he isn't. Yet to see a proof of this. Apart from 83 v England there is no other inning which helped India win any improbable match in India. For ex - when you take Gabba chase, it was rare match win because it was considered improbable, chasing 320 on day 5 in Aus. 350 was improbable. But apart from that you mention other knocks, was the win improbable? Do people think that without Sehwag India would have won lesser matches, unlikely. When Dhoni and Kohli are said to be great chasing match winners, it is reflected in types of clutch knocks the played where improbable matches were won. And without them India is struggling is chase scores. Can same be said by Sehwag? Without Sehwag, India had better W/L at home in 90s, way higher W/L post his career. Where is the evidence of being rare match winner at home?

 

5. Sehwag's batting in SEN countries is nothing to write about. He is placed along with Ashwin the batsman with an avg of 24 and 19 respectively. Ashwin in addition to that bowling average of 28 in England which is good for spinner.

 

6. Sehwag's performance is good in Aus on flattest pitches he played on against weakest Aus bowling attacks. Yet there are 0 matches won by him, 1 match drawn. Ashwin bowled on flat pitches in 2014 and pacer friendly (still good for batting conditions) in 2018 and 2020. Yet he managed to draw one test with bat at Sydney and that too an improbable draw. Additionally he was 2nd highest wicket taker in the series which India won. That's rare series winning performance from a off spinner in Aus. 

 

Buddy, I am not really interested in Ashwin (or any post 1990 Ind spinner. Nothing against Ashwin in particular. I like the bloke) ... Nor is this topic on it ... Feel free to pick one from Sehwag or Smith 

 

But since you took time to write the post, will give it a reply!

 

1. W/L depend upon a variety of factors 

 

2. Sehwag has been Bradmanesque in Asia, which includes all the 3 top countries, with his combination of  average and SR, towering over more experienced batsmen:

Primary team India

Opposition team Australia  or England  or India  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies

Host country India  or Pakistan  or Sri Lanka

Involving all of the players R Dravid (ICC/INDIA)  or VVS Laxman (INDIA)  or V Sehwag (ICC/INDIA)  or SR Tendulkar (INDIA)

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 2000

Ordered by batting average (descending)

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
V Sehwag	2001-2011	45	75	2	4899	319	67.10	5683	86.20	14	20	4	697	61
VVS Laxman	2001-2011	45	71	16	2947	200*	53.58	6225	47.34	5	21	5	322	2
R Dravid	2001-2011	45	74	7	3585	270	53.50	8022	44.68	14	11	3	423	9
G Gambhir	2004-2011	25	45	2	2117	206	49.23	3968	53.35	5	12	4	256	4
SR Tendulkar	2001-2011	45	73	7	3024	203	45.81	6118	49.42	7	15	1	364	9

 

 

3. Ashwin is good too, however, his performance is similar wrt other similar quality bowlers

 

 

Your other points are also already explained in one way or the other so will not repeat myself. 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by zen

[sarcastic]

16 minutes ago, zen said:

 

 

2. Sehwag has been Bradmanesque in Asia, which includes all the 3 top countries, with his combination of  average and SR, towering over more experienced batsmen:

 

Primary team India

Opposition team Australia  or England  or India  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies

Host country India  or Pakistan  or Sri Lanka

Start of match date between 1 Jan 2002 and 1 Jan 2014

Involving all of the players R Dravid (ICC/INDIA)  or VVS Laxman (INDIA)  or SR Tendulkar (INDIA)

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 3000

Ordered by batting average (descending)

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
V Sehwag	2002-2011	43	73	2	4813	319	67.78	5561	86.54	14	19	4	682	60
VVS Laxman	2002-2011	46	74	19	3130	200*	56.90	6495	48.19	6	22	5	348	2
R Dravid	2002-2011	46	77	7	3756	270	53.65	8225	45.66	14	13	3	453	9
SR Tendulkar	2002-2011	46	75	8	3069	203	45.80	6086	50.42	7	16	1	373	9

 

 

 

 

 

I can't believe that SRT averages just above 45 in sub-continent in the entire second half of his career.
This is really surprising to me. I know he was not in the best of the form during 2002-06 era but then he had a stunning few years from 2007 onwards.

Edited February 4, 2022 by sarcastic

[zen]

3 minutes ago, sarcastic said:

I can't believe that SRT averages just above 45 in sub-continent in the entire second half of his career.
This is really surprising to me. I know he was not in the best of the form during 2002-06 era but then he had a stunning few years from 2007 onwards.

That is when all played together (apples to apples), which is for most parts 

Edited February 4, 2022 by zen

[Majestic]

Sehwag is same as Ashwin and Kumble. None of the three are all time greats.

 

Tendulkar, Gavaskar, Dravid, Kohli, Kapil are the only all time greats.

 

Vijay Hazare, Vijay Merchant, VVS Laxman, Virender Sehwag, Ashwin, Kumble, Jadeja, Bedi, Chandra are country greats and a level below the above mentioned fab five.

 

Dhoni and Rohit are ODI all time greats only.

 

 

[Vijy]

8 hours ago, Majestic said:

Sehwag is same as Ashwin and Kumble. None of the three are all time greats.

 

Tendulkar, Gavaskar, Dravid, Kohli, Kapil are the only all time greats.

 

Vijay Hazare, Vijay Merchant, VVS Laxman, Virender Sehwag, Ashwin, Kumble, Jadeja, Bedi, Chandra are country greats and a level below the above mentioned fab five.

 

Dhoni and Rohit are ODI all time greats only.

 

 

chandra was excellent everywhere. although his avg is about 29, that's because in that era there were almost no spin-friendly (not even talkin about turners) pitches in the world. chandra did great in most countries. best spinner, possibly along with gupte (who played on ever flatter tracks for an even weaker ind team), for all conditions from india.  that's why I had him in my all-time XI, in the thread which is now inactive

[zen]

34 minutes ago, Vijy said:

chandra was excellent everywhere. although his avg is about 29, that's because in that era there were almost no spin-friendly (not even talkin about turners) pitches in the world. chandra did great in most countries. best spinner, possibly along with gupte (who played on ever flatter tracks for an even weaker ind team), for all conditions from india.  that's why I had him in my all-time XI, in the thread which is now inactive

 

Yep, folks also need to gain knowledge on greats like Mankad, Pataudi, and Chandra

 

From reading the posts, you know that for many of these guys an AT 11 would be "restricted" to  -> Gavaskar, Sehwag, Dravid, Sachin, Kohli, WK, Kapil, Ashwin, Kumble, pace bowler, pace bowler   

Edited February 4, 2022 by zen

[Vijy]

Just now, zen said:

 

Yep, folks also need to gain knowledge on greats like Mankad, Pataudi, and Chandra

 

From reading the posts, you known that for many of these guys an AT 11 would be like -> Gavaskar, Sehwag, Dravid, Sachin, Kohli, WK, Kapil, Ashwin, Kumble, pace bowler, pace bowler   

yes, mankad was india's first great AR. would have loved to see him play in modern era. pataudi's primary role was as captain and in developing indian cricket - first great captain of india. he can be my manager of my all-time XI. he will also teach those westerners to mind their own business in their own language, given his impeccable command of english.

[zen]

15 minutes ago, Vijy said:

yes, mankad was india's first great AR. would have loved to see him play in modern era. pataudi's primary role was as captain and in developing indian cricket - first great captain of india. he can be my manager of my all-time XI. he will also teach those westerners to mind their own business in their own language, given his impeccable command of english.

 

Also ATG in simple terms means any player that can be placed among the great in any time period for any particular/unique skill 

[Jay]

6 hours ago, Vijy said:

chandra was excellent everywhere. although his avg is about 29, that's because in that era there were almost no spin-friendly (not even talkin about turners) pitches in the world. chandra did great in most countries. best spinner, possibly along with gupte (who played on ever flatter tracks for an even weaker ind team), for all conditions from india.  that's why I had him in my all-time XI, in the thread which is now inactive

How do you rate the west indies team india beat in the 70s away from home. 

None of big 4 bowlers played at the time. Only Noreiga was kind of fast. It was a weak side imo. Not trying to discredit India'# achievement at the time but let's be honest w.indies bowling was poor. 

[Vijy]

4 hours ago, Jay said:

How do you rate the west indies team india beat in the 70s away from home. 

None of big 4 bowlers played at the time. Only Noreiga was kind of fast. It was a weak side imo. Not trying to discredit India'# achievement at the time but let's be honest w.indies bowling was poor. 

WI bowling was quite ordinary up to 1975-76. Chandra, however, was still bowling against some strong WI batters.

[Trichromatic]

Indian batting is so weak, yet Sehwag won't find a place in current team. England, SA, NZ, WI and Aus rarely give flat pitches like 2000s. So, no value to be added there.

 

Home games - Mayank, Shaw, Rohit, Rahul, pick any batsman, India will win the game.

 

Smith will walk into current Indian side easily.

[Majestic]

12 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Indian batting is so weak, yet Sehwag won't find a place in current team. England, SA, NZ, WI and Aus rarely give flat pitches like 2000s. So, no value to be added there.

 

Home games - Mayank, Shaw, Rohit, Rahul, pick any batsman, India will win the game.

 

Smith will walk into current Indian side easily.

Great point. 

 

For a player that was born and brought up in India, the real challenge is how they perform overseas. At home, especially Indian batsman and from any era can win games consistently.

 

Even Shreyas Iyer won us a test match at home on his debut. What is so special about it? The real challenge is performing overseas and Sehwag didn't do all that well outside Asia.