Pant opening? My hopes are up ..

[Adamant]

8 minutes ago, Serpico said:

Pant plays better when fielders are pulled up. That's why he's more successful in tests than LOIs. Its a no brainer to use him in powerplay 

 

Sehwag 2.0

Shaw is Sehwag 2.0.

[jusarrived]

Just now, Serpico said:

Pant plays better when fielders are pulled up. That's why he's more successful in tests than LOIs. Its a no brainer to use him in powerplay 

 

Sehwag 2.0

 

Exactly, I dont think there is a big technical adjustment needed to open in LOIs .

 

Anyway, am fine even if this experiment fails but its nice to see TM is trying something new. This could be cos they finally acknowledge we need a aggressive bat at the top, weather its pant or someone else dosent matter. KL looks like will be locked at 4, that's another positive and along with that giving chances to likes of Sundar etc I feel at least there is some logical reasoning behind these selections . you many not agree with all the changes/selections but as long as you can see their reasoning am fine with it .

[SRT100]

1 hour ago, jusarrived said:

 

Exactly, I dont think there is a big technical adjustment needed to open in LOIs .

 

Anyway, am fine even if this experiment fails but its nice to see TM is trying something new. This could be cos they finally acknowledge we need a aggressive bat at the top, weather its pant or someone else dosent matter. KL looks like will be locked at 4, that's another positive and along with that giving chances to likes of Sundar etc I feel at least there is some logical reasoning behind these selections . you many not agree with all the changes/selections but as long as you can see their reasoning am fine with it .

 

Correct.

 

TM needs to be applauded for experimenting. Its something out of the box thinking, the time to trial this is now and now during the WC.

 

Im sure many things will fail, you just need one or two things tried to be successful and match winning consistently to make the experimentation worthwhile.

[jusarrived]

1 hour ago, sarchasm said:

 

The TM, speaking through Rohit at post match chat, immediately clarified Pant is going to go back to his spot at 4/5. How, then, was this an experiment? An experiment means a run of 10-15 matches to see the success/failure of the approach.

 

This was a hail mary lol

 

Unless Dhawan goes out of form and gets dropped, you can only expect one off trails like this . Am hoping unlike in the past, we will rest seniors against weaker teams, this is something we havent done for a while. Even though Dhawan comes back for now, lets hope we will continue to look at other options. 

[SRT100]

17 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

 

Unless Dhawan goes out of form and gets dropped, you can only expect one off trails like this . Am hoping unlike in the past, we will rest seniors against weaker teams, this is something we havent done for a while. Even though Dhawan comes back for now, lets hope we will continue to look at other options. 

 

One of trials are useless.

 

I mean you could open the batting with Siraj and if he scored a century, doesnt mean he should be opening the batting for the rest of his career as time would show he would fail, 99 out of 100 times if persisted.

 

Trials are only useful if you give players the time and opportunities to test them properly. A one off innings does not mean Pant is not suited to opening.

 

If anything the trial was a waste of everyone's time if its not persisted with.

[Serpico]

4 hours ago, sarchasm said:

And here I thought Pant's success in tests was on account of a simple, uncomplicated defense combined with the ability to take calculated risks. How remiss of me. Of course he bats at a high SR so he must Sehwag 2.0.

 

All batsmen with a SR of over 100 in ODIs are basically Sehwag 2.0.

Nothing you said contradicts what I said lol. Yeah he got the defense right but the fact is he plays much better when there are less fielders at the ropes because of how often he likes going aerial. Ever notice how many times his mishits fall in no mans land in tests. Having good defense comes handy for LOI opener too if the conditions are tricky

[express bowling]

Rohit has said that Pant is unlikely to open in the next match as Dhawan is coming back.

 

As much as I want Pant in the middle order, it makes no sense to promote a batsman for just 1 game. Why do it if it is going to change next match ????

[jusarrived]

1 hour ago, SRT100 said:

 

One of trials are useless.

 

I mean you could open the batting with Siraj and if he scored a century, doesnt mean he should be opening the batting for the rest of his career as time would show he would fail, 99 out of 100 times if persisted.

 

Trials are only useful if you give players the time and opportunities to test them properly. A one off innings does not mean Pant is not suited to opening.

 

If anything the trial was a waste of everyone's time if its not persisted with.

 

59 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

 

''One off trails''. Brilliant. Dravid is rewriting the very definition of what it means to experiment.

 

All am saying is even though Dhawan is returning to open for now, there is a good chance Pant will get open in a few series . I dont think the idea is discarded completely.  

[jusarrived]

21 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

 

So what you are suggesting is that Dravid, scientist and experimenter, should keep shuffling Pant from MO to opener's slot based on Dhawan's availability. You know, since Dravid lacks the nuts to discard Dhawan. And in the process risk completely destabilizing/neutering Pant's game. After a string of failures, pile on the nonsense that pant does not have the game for LOI.

 

An experiment that frankenstien would applaud.

 

 

Why are you singling out Dravid here?  Rohit is here only there to take credit when team does well is it?

[Serpico]

2 hours ago, sarchasm said:

Pant is absolutely Sehwag 2.0. Just like Afridi was Sehwag 2.0 too - he too had more success in tests as a batsman compared to ODIs

Afridi definitely should have played more tests, don't know why his test career was so short. 

 

No idea why comparing pant with sehwag triggers you but I am enjoying the reaction

[Serpico]

5 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

 

You are welcome. I too am enjoying the nuggets like Pant scores because fielders aren't on the ropes.

 

OTOH, how sed the TM decided to roll Sehwag 2.0 back to the MO.

 

Dravid did the same thing with Dhoni when he was captain by randomly promoting him to one down in some matches. His odi career turned out alright. I'm confident that pant will get more chances like this in future when kohli/rohit are out. This is a win win for him, even if he fails, people will rationalize that it's an experiment, not his fault

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

Rohit has said that Pant is unlikely to open in the next match as Dhawan is coming back.

 

As much as I want Pant in the middle order, it makes no sense to promote a batsman for just 1 game. Why do it if it is going to change next match ????

 

Pinch hitter role is not going to be long term. One main reason India is mostly producing good openers these days rather than good middle order.  Jaiswal for instance scored 646 runs in 7 innings in VH couple of years back including a double century as opener. Strike rate was like 109. Padikkal also scored well.  But his strike rate was in the mid 80s Thin this year Ruturaj Gaekwad had a dream season.  Then Prithvi Shaw. India has plethora of options to open the innings for India. But middle order is where we need resources. So pant taking up their spots is just going to be used as an option in certain situations.  If he really wants to open the innings he should have done this for DC as a captain. Even for DC he came way too down the order. 

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Pinch hitter role is not going to be long term. One main reason India is mostly producing good openers these days rather than good middle order.  Jaiswal for instance scored 646 runs in 7 innings in VH couple of years back including a double century as opener. Strike rate was like 109. Padikkal also scored well.  But his strike rate was in the mid 80s Thin this year Ruturaj Gaekwad had a dream season.  Then Prithvi Shaw. India has plethora of options to open the innings for India. But middle order is where we need resources. So pant taking up their spots is just going to be used as an option in certain situations.  If he really wants to open the innings he should have done this for DC as a captain. Even for DC he came way too down the order. 

 

I am not advocating Pant opening the innings.

 

I want Pant and Rahul in the middle order.

 

Best option for ODI opener is Shaw.

 

What I was saying was ... Don't make Pant or Rahul open for 1 or 2 innings and use them in the middle order again.

 

If a regular opener is not available, bring in Shaw or Kishan.  Infant, one of them, preferably Shaw, should be the regular opener with Rohit.

[vvvslaxman]

5 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

I am not advocating Pant opening the innings.

 

I want Pant and Rahul in the middle order.

 

Best option for ODI opener is Shaw.

 

What I was saying was ... Don't make Pant or Rahul open for 1 or 2 innings and use them in the middle order again.

 

If a regular opener is not available, bring in Shaw or Kishan.  Infant, one of them, preferably Shaw, should be the regular opener with Rohit.

 

I agree. This is not 1990s where we promoted Mongia to no.3 because Laxman can't accelerate.  In the 90s many teams used to have as good a score as we have now in the first 10 overs. Heck Srilanka reached 42 runs in the first 3 overs of the match against us in the world cup.  But even with ultra aggressive approach at the top they hardly breached 300. Because most of the time attacking stops at 15th over. Then slow batting till 40th over. Things have changed. 

[jusarrived]

Chahal, KL, Shardul and Hooda rested . Kuldeep and Chahar get a game . 

Edited February 11, 2022 by jusarrived

[jusarrived]

18 hours ago, sarchasm said:

 

So the only objectionable bit in my post is that I ''singled'' Drawid the scientist out? Fair enough.

 

No, I was pointing out the obvious you have against Dravid.

 

[SRT100]

All that team India achieved by making Pant open in the last match, is give him one less game to bat in the middle order.

 

Idiotic thinking.

 

At least give Pant several games in a row as an opener to trial it out. How can you make any judgement after just one game???

[jusarrived]

17 hours ago, sarchasm said:

 

LMAO, thanks for the Dhoni example.

 

@jusarrived, take note. Dravid messed around with Dhoni as well.

 

Looks to me Drawid the scientist won't learn from his experiments of the past. Wants to start afresh with Pant. Thank god we have Rohit as the sane voice as he nipped this nonsense before it could spiral out of control.

 

And I agree, just like Dhoni/Yuvi, Pant will carve a career in LOIs in the middle order.

 

Dhoni played arguably his best ODI knock at 3 and his stats suggest he would have done well aeven if he had played higher up . Not sure what are you even criticizing here unless you claim to know that  Dhoni would turn out to be  a ATG finisher first when he came into scene.  Sehwag and Rohit wer middle order bats who, their success was a result of a experimentation, I dont know why is this bothering you so much 

[jusarrived]

3 minutes ago, SRT100 said:

All that team India achieved by making Pant open in the last match, is give him one less game to bat in the middle order.

 

Idiotic thinking.

 

At least give Pant several games in a row as an opener to trial it out. How can you make any judgement after just one game???

 

I will be disappointed if this turns out to be the last game Pant opens as well, but I think they will rest Dhawan for few upcoming series and thats where he will get a longer run . 

[jusarrived]

31 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

 

I think you are feeling a little harassed. Where did I say Pant wouldn't be a success at the top? He has the talent but it would still be a nonsense decision. Like I said, happy that Rohit has binned scientist Drawid's experiment rightaway. Consider the following

 

1) Pant's success in the MO since his comeback

2) India's lack of a reliable MO bat since Dhoni's demise

3) The fact that India is flush with top order batting talent - Gaekwad, Shaw, and even Gill

 

Why would anyone argue for Pant opening? Maybe Drawid thinks Pant is a threat to Kela Rahul's MO position - who proved to be a pansy as an opener -  and he wants to save his state mate's career?

 

Is that what's making you so sensitive?

 

 

 

 

This is where I stop responding to clowns like you