Ravindra Jadeja vs Kapil Dev in Tests

[Majestic]

Kapil’s batting record:-

 

Overall Avg - 31

Home Avg - 36

Away Avg - 26

 

Bowling record:

 

Overall - 29

Home - 26

Away - 32

 

For all the cry about his home conditions, his record is far better at home than away. he wasn’t a great bowler or a batter away from home either.

[Trichromatic]

7 hours ago, Majestic said:

Kapil’s batting record:-

 

Overall Avg - 31

Home Avg - 36

Away Avg - 26

 

Bowling record:

 

Overall - 29

Home - 26

Away - 32

 

For all the cry about his home conditions, his record is far better at home than away. he wasn’t a great bowler or a batter away from home either.

 

This was case with all Asian bowlers till early 2000s.

 

Srinath, Kapil, Umesh, Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Vaas all have better record at home.

 

Zaheer, Siraj and others are different.

[vvvslaxman]

15 hours ago, Majestic said:

Kapil’s batting record:-

 

Overall Avg - 31

Home Avg - 36

Away Avg - 26

 

Bowling record:

 

Overall - 29

Home - 26

Away - 32

 

For all the cry about his home conditions, his record is far better at home than away. he wasn’t a great bowler or a batter away from home either.

 

I don't think you can consider average as ametric from that era. For instance the 6 test tour to Pakistan  where there was nothing called leg before.  Also Australian umpiring was extremely biased. Only England had credible umpires.  Also India had no one but Kapil for the best part of his career.  He had to bowl a lot more overs than needed. His average took a beating. If he had done injury management he would have finished with an average of 23 or 24. Other country had support bowlers.  Also because he was bowling a lot of overs he could not afford to bat for long period as it means he would be in action every hour of every day. So he generally tried to score quickly. He is  way better batsman than that. There was once he was dropped for costing a match for trying to hit a six. Then he came back played sensibly made 53 & 47 on a tricky pitch where India imploded. Look at this score card.  Just 2 fast bowlers. Kapil and Chetan. Chetan got butchered. So just Kapil and spinners finished the quota. There were several matches like this. 

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-tour-of-india-1984-85-61797/india-vs-england-4th-test-63394/full-scorecard

 

 

[Majestic]

22 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

I don't think you can consider average as ametric from that era. For instance the 6 test tour to Pakistan  where there was nothing called leg before.  Also Australian umpiring was extremely biased. Only England had credible umpires.  Also India had no one but Kapil for the best part of his career.  He had to bowl a lot more overs than needed. His average took a beating. If he had done injury management he would have finished with an average of 23 or 24. Other country had support bowlers.  Also because he was bowling a lot of overs he could not afford to bat for long period as it means he would be in action every hour of every day. So he generally tried to score quickly. He is  way better batsman than that. There was once he was dropped for costing a match for trying to hit a six. Then he came back played sensibly made 53 & 47 on a tricky pitch where India imploded. Look at this score card.  Just 2 fast bowlers. Kapil and Chetan. Chetan got butchered. So just Kapil and spinners finished the quota. There were several matches like this. 

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-tour-of-india-1984-85-61797/india-vs-england-4th-test-63394/full-scorecard

 

 

Look at this. First two wickets of Pakistani batters- Kapil got too wickets by lbw. Not sure where you are getting these fake news.

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/india-tour-of-pakistan-1982-83-62329/pakistan-vs-india-6th-test-63334/full-scorecard

 

For the match that you have posted the link, Neil Foster bowled the most overs - 51.  You talk about workload but look at Botham’s workload. He bowled more overs per match than Kapil and batted at 6 and played long innings and hit the beastly level peak that Kapil never really hit.
 

Despite the workload excuse, Kapil is behind in most metrics- Bowl avg, bat avg, peak batting or peak bowling, home away stats and runs per innings. All that he has got is just one thing- performance vs the best, WI like box VVS performed vs Aussies. But none of those batting performances by Kapil were match winning in the sense like VVS played in Test cricket. They were audacious and exciting to watch but not necessarily changing games.

[vvvslaxman]

17 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Look at this. First two wickets of Pakistani batters- Kapil got too wickets by lbw. Not sure where you are getting these fake news.

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/india-tour-of-pakistan-1982-83-62329/pakistan-vs-india-6th-test-63334/full-scorecard

 

For the match that you have posted the link, Neil Foster bowled the most overs - 51.  You talk about workload but look at Botham’s workload. He bowled more overs per match than Kapil and batted at 6 and played long innings and hit the beastly level peak that Kapil never really hit.
 

Despite the workload excuse, Kapil is behind in most metrics- Bowl avg, bat avg, peak batting or peak bowling, home away stats and runs per innings. All that he has got is just one thing- performance vs the best, WI like box VVS performed vs Aussies. But none of those batting performances by Kapil were match winning in the sense like VVS played in Test cricket. They were audacious and exciting to watch but not necessarily changing games.

 

Don't go by that. So many were denied. Botham had Bob Willis. Who did Kapil have. Look at this match. He bowled 30 overs in a row. You don't factor in the intangibe effect that will have on Kapil dev. India had Ghavri who would bowl seam up for a while and bowl spin. Indian seam attack was pathetic. Kapil had to do all the job in one.  BEsides Kapil dev had a skill level that was unbelievable. Being an outswing bowler he was often too good for btasmen. Kapil's service as a player is unmatched.  If you look blindly just the scorecard you will see what you want to see.

 

 

 

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/west-indies-tour-of-india-1983-84-61939/india-vs-west-indies-3rd-test-63352/full-scorecard

[Majestic]

5 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Don't go by that. So many were denied. Botham had Bob Willis. Who did Kapil have. Look at this match. He bowled 30 overs in a row. You don't factor in the intangibe effect that will have on Kapil dev. India had Ghavri who would bowl seam up for a while and bowl spin. Indian seam attack was pathetic. Kapil had to do all the job in one.  BEsides Kapil dev had a skill level that was unbelievable. Being an outswing bowler he was often too good for btasmen. Kapil's service as a player is unmatched.  If you look blindly just the scorecard you will see what you want to see.

 

 

 

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/west-indies-tour-of-india-1983-84-61939/india-vs-west-indies-3rd-test-63352/full-scorecard

Botham had Willis and yet he bowled so many overs and batted at 6 for long period, went on to hit 14 hundreds and picked 380 wickets. Kapil barely took his batting seriously and his away record is nothing to write about. He never had a great peak like Botham, Imran and Hadlee.

 

One can make a same argument about Stokes given his couple of freakish performances with bat that if he took batting seriously, he would have averaged 45 but at the end , a player should be rated based on his performance.

 

kapil played for a team that ended up behind WI, Pak, NZ, Aus and Eng in that era and hence there is nothing to boost about his test greatness. His bowling was ineffective with the old ball and batting was mediocre away from home with an avg of 26. Good hitter on flat decks mostly once the ball stops moving.

 

Of course winning the World Cup remains his ultimate achievement but here we are discussing his test career. Post 1983 WC win, his career mostly went downhill as opposition started taking him more seriously.

Edited August 19, 2025 by Majestic

[vvvslaxman]

10 hours ago, Majestic said:

Botham had Willis and yet he bowled so many overs and batted at 6 for long period, went on to hit 14 hundreds and picked 380 wickets. Kapil barely took his batting seriously and his away record is nothing to write about. He never had a great peak like Botham, Imran and Hadlee.

 

One can make a same argument about Stokes given his couple of freakish performances with bat that if he took batting seriously, he would have averaged 45 but at the end , a player should be rated based on his performance.

 

kapil played for a team that ended up behind WI, Pak, NZ, Aus and Eng in that era and hence there is nothing to boost about his test greatness. His bowling was ineffective with the old ball and batting was mediocre away from home with an avg of 26tat 

 

Of course winning the World Cup remains his ultimate achievement but here we are discussing his test career. Post 1983 WC win, his career mostly went downhill as opposition started taking him more seriously.

  kapil dev played one of the most breath taking 129 in unplayable conditions against alan donald. i guess you are purely theorizing kapil's career using cricinfo.  You are far away from the truth. His 175 did not come on a road. Ball was jagging around all over. Same way there was htis one day game where Patterson was absolutely running riot against India. He took the entire wi bowling down. Also he took down alan Donald for 22 runs in 1992 world cup when he was breathing fire in that world cup. Just because he gets out doesn't mean he doesn't know how to play 'moving ball'. sorry dude your theories are very very far from the reality. 

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/india-tour-of-south-africa-1992-93-62289/south-africa-vs-india-3rd-test-63588/full-scorecard

 

 

[putrevus]

On 8/16/2025 at 2:50 PM, Trichromatic said:

I am not making up the claim here.

Claim what?  Kapil is better than Jadeja .

 

and Imran was useless batsman.

 

Scenario 1

number 11 is batting with an allrounder. 24 runs are needed to save follow on. Allrounder scored 24 runs in four deliveries in that over. Number 11 gets out first ball he faces next over.. That is Kapil.

 

Scenario 2

 

Number 11 bats for an hour and sticks with again an allrounder.But all allrounder does is take single and expose number 11 over after over.

 

India still  ends up losing the test by 22 runs and Allrounder remains not out and increases his batting avg. That is Jadeja , he  never had belief that he could win the match.

 

So Jadeja the allrounder is not in same level as Kapil dev.

 

Imran Khan was much inferior version of Jadeja.Stokes is much better allrounder than Jadeja.

 

 

Dhoni has odi batting avg of 50 plus and Tendulkar has 44. Who is better batsman? Stats don't tell complete picture.

[Majestic]

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

  kapil dev played one of the most breath taking 129 in unplayable conditions against alan donald. i guess you are purely theorizing kapil's career using cricinfo.  You are far away from the truth. His 175 did not come on a road. Ball was jagging around all over. Same way there was htis one day game where Patterson was absolutely running riot against India. He took the entire wi bowling down. Also he took down alan Donald for 22 runs in 1992 world cup when he was breathing fire in that world cup. Just because he gets out doesn't mean he doesn't know how to play 'moving ball'. sorry dude your theories are very very far from the reality. 

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/india-tour-of-south-africa-1992-93-62289/south-africa-vs-india-3rd-test-63588/full-scorecard

 

 

There is nothing new you added again. Fact is Kapil was known for famed audacious knocks with bat but he never really won games with bat in Tests under pressure situations. He averaged 26 away from home and that is way behind the benchmark you are trying to set when talking about Kapil batting. There is nothing to hype about these performances.

Him performing vs Windies is same as VVS performing vs Aus except that VVS runs won games under pressure vs Australia while Kapil’s runs were basically audacious and show off of his skills than delivering in crucial moments ( same story as we see with Stokes of today). Many players have come up and performed against best but aren’t touted as greats due to lack of consistency. Kapil falls in the same category. 

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, Majestic said:

There is nothing new you added again. Fact is Kapil was known for famed audacious knocks with bat but he never really won games with bat in Tests under pressure situations. He averaged 26 away from home and that is way behind the benchmark you are trying to set when talking about Kapil batting. There is nothing to hype about these performances.

Him performing vs Windies is same as VVS performing vs Aus except that VVS runs won games under pressure vs Australia while Kapil’s runs were basically audacious and show off of his skills than delivering in crucial moments ( same story as we see with Stokes of today). Many players have come up and performed against best but aren’t touted as greats due to lack of consistency. Kapil falls in the same category. 

He can't be consistently batting for long periods if he has to bowl so many overs no stop. So he batted aggressively. Just remember if India had lost to Zimbabwe we would not have qualified in 1983 world cup.  He had to do both jobs with no workload sharing from other pacers. It is not easy to sweep pacers like Winston Benjamin line he did. You sound like it is easy to be aggressive with no talent.

[crictime]

Kapil Dev was phenomenal. So is Jadeja. Both played in drastically different eras. Also, totally different skill sets with one being pacer and another a spinner. Different factors then and now.  Glad that India produced these two great cricketers and I hope some other all-rounder will also emerge to carry forward the standards these two have set.

[putrevus]

On 8/16/2025 at 10:55 AM, Majestic said:

You don’t have awareness of the game and want to stay delusional hence can’t back your illogical arguments.

I am not under any delusions.

 

You have no understanding of the game. That is why you keep posting useless stats.First understand game.

 

What is needed from number 6 or 7 is completely different from top order batsman.

 

31 average from number 6 or 7 with impactful knocks is always superior to 37 avg with no impactful knocks .

 

Jadeja or useless Imran in their 100 lifetimes cannot play a knock of 129 which played with one hand when whole team was collpasing around him in SA.

 

Viv Richards is  rated very high , he does not have stats like Sachin or Lara.It is due to his impact.

 

Don't quote me further, I don't have patience for you.

Edited August 20, 2025 by putrevus

[vvvslaxman]

7 hours ago, crictime said:

Kapil Dev was phenomenal. So is Jadeja. Both played in drastically different eras. Also, totally different skill sets with one being pacer and another a spinner. Different factors then and now.  Glad that India produced these two great cricketers and I hope some other all-rounder will also emerge to carry forward the standards these two have set.

We have Ashwin equally contributing with bat. Axar patel has outperformed Jadeja in a home series with bat.  In the recent series Sundar was as good as Jadeja. India has too many spin all rounders coming through. It is not that a big ask these days. But how many seam bowling all rounders coming through.  Pandya has restricted hhimself to limited international sports. Reddy as a bowler is at best 4th change bowler. It is very very very hard to be a seam bowling all rounder

[Majestic]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

I am not under any delusions.

 

You have no understanding of the game. That is why you keep posting useless stats.First understand game.

 

What is needed from number 6 or 7 is completely different from top order batsman.

 

31 average from number 6 or 7 with impactful knocks is always superior to 37 avg with no impactful knocks .

 

Jadeja or useless Imran in their 100 lifetimes cannot play a knock of 129 which played with one hand when whole team was collpasing around him in SA.

 

Viv Richards is  rated very high , he does not have stats like Sachin or Lara.It is due to his impact.

 

Don't quote me further, I don't have patience for you.

Another post with all story but zero facts. Played with one hand lol. Why didn’t he averaged 50 by playing with both hands then? Leave it, not your cup of tea 

[cricspirit]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

We have Ashwin equally contributing with bat. Axar patel has outperformed Jadeja in a home series with bat.  In the recent series Sundar was as good as Jadeja. India has too many spin all rounders coming through. It is not that a big ask these days. But how many seam bowling all rounders coming through.  Pandya has restricted hhimself to limited international sports. Reddy as a bowler is at best 4th change bowler. It is very very very hard to be a seam bowling all rounder

 

The thing about both Kapil and Jadeja is continued top quality for a long period of time. Jadeja literally has been the top ranked or top 3 All rounder for 12 years. 

 

I am not sure how Sundar and Axar will end up for their career. I agree Axar has batted well recently but can he be consistent over longer period. Same with Sundar ? Can both of them maintain fitness to play and serve India that long in tests. But glad that both Axar and Sundar have the right mental fitness. 

 

If Both Sundar/Axar can take 200 Wickets + whatever runs.. that will be a good result. Do not think either of those will get 350-400 wickets range.  

 

To be honest its not as easy to produce Ashwin/Jadeja combo at the same time. Also very hard to produce Kapil Dev again as simply players do not see the incentive in doing fast bowling and batting combo in tests. If they do not aspire, they can't achieve.

 

As far as the debate goes, both Kapil and Jadeja are great in their own ways. So is Ashwin. Have to appreciate qualities in all great players. Cant put down one on specific quality that other lacks. 

 

 

 

 

[Majestic]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

We have Ashwin equally contributing with bat. Axar patel has outperformed Jadeja in a home series with bat.  In the recent series Sundar was as good as Jadeja. India has too many spin all rounders coming through. It is not that a big ask these days. But how many seam bowling all rounders coming through.  Pandya has restricted hhimself to limited international sports. Reddy as a bowler is at best 4th change bowler. It is very very very hard to be a seam bowling all rounder

No they have not contributed anywhere close to Jadeja with bat. Neither has Kapil who averages 26 away from home. Jadeja averages 38 away from home. Ashwin I think averages 21-22 away from home excluding BD and WI lol.

[vvvslaxman]

44 minutes ago, Majestic said:

No they have not contributed anywhere close to Jadeja with bat. Neither has Kapil who averages 26 away from home. Jadeja averages 38 away from home. Ashwin I think averages 21-22 away from home excluding BD and WI lol.

How the heck Sundar not contribute. He practically won the game for India at the Gabba. He saved the test with no batsman left with hsi 104. Chacneless one. Jaddu dropped on 0 rememeber. Then he put up finishing touches at the Oval. If anything Sundar was mroe impactful than Jadeja. Jadeja bowling was utter tripe all his carer in England

Edited August 20, 2025 by vvvslaxman

[Majestic]

7 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

How the heck Sundar not contribute. He practically won the game for India at the Gabba. He saved the test with no batsman left with hsi 104. Chacneless one. Jaddu dropped on 0 rememeber. Then he put up finishing touches at the Oval. If anything Sundar was mroe impactful than Jadeja. Jadeja bowling was utter tripe all his carer in England

Sundar costed Lords Test with a duck in final inning. Sundar is early in his days so bringing him doesn’t make any sense here. We will talk about him once he has played 40 tests.

 

Jadeja scored 500 runs in this series and that’s enough of what is expected of him. He was pivotal in contributing to win in both innings in 2nd test, valiant knock in 3rd test both innings, draw in 4th test and then a 53 in 5th test. That’s consistency. 27 half centuries alongwith 5 tons is not a joke for a lower middle order batsman.

 

As for bowling, Kapil also had series where he played like 4-5 tests and picked 6-7 wickets. Look at his performance in year 1984 or even afterwards. I do rate Kapil higher than Jadeja as a bowler because of his lone warrior performances with bowl for more than a decade but his batting gets overhyped by fans because of what if scenarios. He should be rated on what he did rather than what he could have done.

 

Batting - Jadeja > Kapil

Bowling - Kapil > Jadeja

 

Not much difference in either. Overall, they are on par with ear other in Test cricket. Kapil winning the WC takes his stature higher of course and that’s the reason why all ex cricket experts from India will rate Kapil higher. But purely in Test cricket, they are on par with each other or you can make a case for Jadeja also due to his more dominant home performance.

[vvvslaxman]

8 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Sundar costed Lords Test with a duck in final inning. Sundar is early in his days so bringing him doesn’t make any sense here. We will talk about him once he has played 40 tests.

 

Jadeja scored 500 runs in this series and that’s enough of what is expected of him. He was pivotal in contributing to win in both innings in 2nd test, valiant knock in 3rd test both innings, draw in 4th test and then a 53 in 5th test. That’s consistency. 27 half centuries alongwith 5 tons is not a joke for a lower middle order batsman.

 

As for bowling, Kapil also had series where he played like 4-5 tests and picked 6-7 wickets. Look at his performance in year 1984 or even afterwards. I do rate Kapil higher than Jadeja as a bowler because of his lone warrior performances with bowl for more than a decade but his batting gets overhyped by fans because of what if scenarios. He should be rated on what he did rather than what he could have done.

 

Batting - Jadeja > Kapil

Bowling - Kapil > Jadeja

 

Not much difference in either. Overall, they are on par with ear other in Test cricket. Kapil winning the WC takes his stature higher of course and that’s the reason why all ex cricket experts from India will rate Kapil higher. But purely in Test cricket, they are on par with each other or you can make a case for Jadeja also due to his more dominant home performance.

 

 

Sundar was picked by impact player of the series by his own peers ahead of every one including Pant, Siraj, Jadeja.  Remember this is bloody first tour of SUndar to England not like 4th tour. Sundar hardly played LOI as well in England. Jadeja is playing cricket for what 15 years. He barely met the standard of Sundar. He has much higher ceiling than Jadeja. Jadeja is a feisty cricketer. He is not going to bat at no.3 if needed. Sundar can. He did bat for TN this season at 3.  Also Sundar totally outbowled Jadeja at Lords and in all the matches. Kapil dev was an elite hitter. Let Jadeja do something remotely similar to Kapil's 175 then we talk. It is an insult to compare anybody's batting with Kapil's batting. He came in at 17/5 and made 175. You really think Kapili would have playedl ike the way Jaddu played at Lords? He saved the follow on with 4 sixes. I admire Ravi's grittiness. In terms of pure batsmanship it is embarrassing tha tyou comapre him with Kapil. I have given you example even from current era where other batsmen batted better than Jadeja. Jadeja in 129 innings 25 not out. Kapil 227 innings 15 not outs. It is easy to stay "not out" boost average. That is what most players do. Frankly we even accuse of players doing that. Kapil was never accused of that.

Edited August 20, 2025 by vvvslaxman

[Majestic]

23 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

 

Sundar was picked by impact player of the series by his own peers ahead of every one including Pant, Siraj, Jadeja.  Remember this is bloody first tour of SUndar to England not like 4th tour. Sundar hardly played LOI as well in England. Jadeja is playing cricket for what 15 years. He barely met the standard of Sundar. He has much higher ceiling than Jadeja. Jadeja is a feisty cricketer. He is not going to bat at no.3 if needed. Sundar can. He did bat for TN this season at 3.  Also Sundar totally outbowled Jadeja at Lords and in all the matches. Kapil dev was an elite hitter. Let Jadeja do something remotely similar to Kapil's 175 then we talk. It is an insult to compare anybody's batting with Kapil's batting. He came in at 17/5 and made 175. You really think Kapili would have playedl ike the way Jaddu played at Lords? He saved the follow on with 4 sixes. I admire Ravi's grittiness. In terms of pure batsmanship it is embarrassing tha tyou comapre him with Kapil. I have given you example even from current era where other batsmen batted better than Jadeja. Jadeja in 129 innings 25 not out. Kapil 227 innings 15 not outs. It is easy to stay "not out" boost average. That is what most players do. Frankly we even accuse of players doing that. Kapil was never accused of that.

Tell me about what Kapil did in Test cricket, not ODIs. Hitting 4 sixes isn’t some kind of achievement just because it is test cricket.

 

Jadeja scored 500+ runs in an away series vs England. He was player of series when Australia toured India in 2017/18 and was the reason why India didn’t let Steve Smith win Australia the test series in India. He was also player of series in last time when Aus toured India.

 

Sundar has just started so let him deliver performances by batting at 3 then better to talk than already claiming about his ceiling as batsman at no. 3. That is pointless. I only care about performance. Once Sundar plays 50 tests and achieves that much, he will also be rated in same league as Jadeja or even better depending on how much successful he becomes and not based on his potential.

 

Again, you skipped my question- what is so special about Kapil when the actual performance tells us that he averages 26 away from home? You want to skip not outs and calculate runs per innings? Jadeja is ahead in that also. There goes your not out argument .

 

Runs per innings:-

 

kapil Dev - 28.5

jadeja - 30.5

Edited August 21, 2025 by Majestic