Gyanvapi mosque in Kashi - whats going on?

[rkt.india]

This(Aryan invasion theory)was indeed a masterly stroke on the part of the British; thanks to the Aryan theory, they showed on the one hand that Indian civilisation was not that ancient, and that it was posterior to the cultures which influenced the western world Mesopotamia, Sumeria, or Babylon-and that whatever good things India had developed-Sanskrit, literature, or even its architecture, had been influenced by the West. Thus, Sanskrit, instead of being the mother of all Indo-European languages, became just a branch of their huge family; and on the other hand, it divided India and pitted against each other the low caste dark-skinned Dravidians and the high caste light-skinned Aryans, a rift which is till enduring.

 

EVIDENCE OF THIS THEORY BEING ‘BOGUS’ in the two best possible ways-

 

THE VEDAS-

 

Firstly, in the Rig Veda, the Ganges, India's sacred river, is only mentioned once, but the mythic Saraswati is praised FIFTY times.

 

For a long time, the Saraswati river was indeed considered a myth, until the American satellite Landstat was able to photograph and map the bed of this magnificent river, which was nearly fourteen kilometres wide and took its source in the Himalayas.

 

“Coarse-grained white or grey sands that contain abundant white mica are typical of glacier-fed Higher Himalayan rivers such as the Ganga, Yamuna and Sutlej... We found such sand layers 3-10 metres below the surface on both sides of the modern Ghaggar in a stretch of 300 kilometres up to the Pakistan border,”

 

explains Jyotiranjan S. Ray of PRL.

 

“Presence of this sand itself is an indication of existence of a powerful river in the past.”

 

According to official history, the Vedas were composed around 1500 BC, some even say 1200 BC. Yet, the Rig Veda, describes India as it was BEFORE the great drought which dried-up the Saraswati, which means in effect that the so-called Indus, or Harappan civilisation was a CONTINUATION of the Vedic epoch, which ended approximately when the Saraswati dried-up.

 

A few years back, the famous Indus seals, discovered on the site of Mohenja Daro and Harappa, have been reportedly* deciphered by Dr N. Rajaram, a mathematician who worked at one time for the NASA and Dr Jha, a distinguished linguist. [*they claim to have deciphered them]

 

In the biased light of the Aryan invasion theory, these seals were presumed to be written in a crude Harappan (read Dravidian) script, although they had never been convincingly deciphered. But according to Rajaram and Jha,

 

"the Harappan Civilization of which the seals are a product, belonged to the latter part ofthe Vedic Age. It had close connections with Vedantic works like the Sutras and the Upanishads. The style of writing reflects the short aphorisms found in Sutra works. The imagery and symbolism are strongly Vedic. The vocabulary depends heavily on the Vedic glossary Nighantu and its commentary by Yaska known as the Nirukta. The name of Yaska is found on at least two seals possibly three. There are references to Vedic kings and sages as well place names. Of particular interest are references to Plakshagra < the birthplace of the Sarasvati River, and Sapta Apah or the Land of the Seven Rivers.

 

This means that the Rigveda must already have been quite ancient by the time of the Harappan Civilization. Since the Harappan Civilization was known to be flourishing in the 3100 1900 BC period, the Rigveda must have been in existence by 4000 BC. This now receives archaeological support following R.S. Bisht's investigation of the great Harappan city of Dholavira. Bisht (and other archaeologists) have concluded that the Vedic Aryans of the Sarasvati heartland were the people who created the Harappan cities and the civilization associated with it."

 

 

In his ‘Who were the Shudras’, Dr.Ambedkar called the theory of Aryan invasion as well as the idea of Aryan race ‘an invention’.

 

In his work on ‘Untouchables’ he underscored the point that race had nothing to do with the social dynamics in India:

 

“If anthropometry is a science which can be depended upon to determine the race of a people…(then its) measurements establish that the Brahmins and the Untouchables belong to the same rac

 

From this it follows that if the Brahmins are Aryans the Untouchables are also Aryans. If the Brahmins are Dravidians, the Untouchables are also Dravidians…

.“e.s….“

 

GENETIC STUDIES:

 

B.B Lal, former archeological director of India observes in an interview [ Aryan Invasion – Interview with Prof B.B.Lal ] —

 

"The supporters of the Aryan invasion theory have not been able to cite even a single example where there is evidence of 'invaders' represented either by weapons of warfare or even by cultural remains left by them."

 

“A detailed study of human skeletal remains from various sites by Hemphill and his colleagues has established that no new people at all entered India between 4500 and 800 BCE.Thus, if there is no evidence of warfare or of entry of an alien people where is the case for any ‘invasion’, much less by Aryans?”

 

there is no evidence whatsoever of an invasion at any of the hundreds of Harappan sites.”

 

Since, as already stated, during the Rigvedic times the Sarasvati was a mighty flowing river and it dried up around 2,000 BCE, the Rigveda has got to be earlier than 2000 BCE.How much earlier is anybody’s guess; but at least a 3rd millennium BCE horizon is indicated.”

 

“Thus, it is amply clear that the Harappan Civilization and the Vedas are but two faces of the same coin. Further, as already stated earlier, the Harappans were the sons of Indian soil. Hence, the Vedic people who themselves were the Harappans were indigenous.”

 

“Inscribed clay tablets discovered at Bogazkoy in Turkey record a treaty between a Mitanni king named Matiwaza and a Hittite king, Suppilulima. It is dated to 1380 BCE. In it the two kings invoke, as witnesses, the Vedic gods Indra, Mitra, Nasatya and Varuna.”

 

 

https://www.quora.com/Is-the-Aryan-invasion-theory-still-valid

 

[Alam_dar]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Do you realise Saraswati river disappeared 4000 years ago which is mentioned in Vedas. So Vedas existed 4000 years back too same as Indus Valley civilization.

 

Ok, let us assume Vedas existed 4000 years ago (the same time when Aryans invaded India). 

• But what about IVC? Why is there no mention of IVC in Vedas? 
• And more importantly, why is Sanskrit absolutely not present in IVC? 
• It is not a proof that neither Sanskrit nor Vedas are older than 5000 years? 

A religion does not become TRUE if it is only 4000 years old. 

 

If a religion claims that its gods created the universe and earth, then it should be much more ancient than 4000 years. 

 

[Alam_dar]

Did GODS in Vedas have any idea of "Aurochs" and that modern cows descended from them?

In Vedas, the oldest of the Hindu scriptures, the cow is associated with Aditi, the mother of many gods. There are many verses in Vedas who praise the cows and consider them the blessing. 

 

I wonder if the Authors of the Vedas (the gods) had any idea about "Aurochs" and that the modern cows descended from them through the process of evolution? And it happened only 8000 ybp (years before present) in the Indus Valley?

 

There are tons of fossils of Aurochs, but no fossil of any cow that is older than 8000 ybp. 

 

There are many cave painting who have these Aurochs, but none of the cave painting (older than 10000 years) all over the world have any cow. 

 

Here is one from cave painting of Indian Auroch from Bhimbetka rock shelters

 

 

I wonder if religious people do ponder upon these contradictions in science and religion? 

[coffee_rules]

3 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

 

Ok, let us assume Vedas existed 4000 years ago (the same time when Aryans invaded India). 

• But what about IVC? Why is there no mention of IVC in Vedas? 
• And more importantly, why is Sanskrit absolutely not present in IVC? 
• It is not a proof that neither Sanskrit nor Vedas are older than 5000 years? 

A religion does not become TRUE if it is only 4000 years old. 

 

If a religion claims that its gods created the universe and earth, then it should be much more ancient than 4000 years. 

 

Read books and not faulty translations on the internet. Prof B B Lal summarized all his excavations in the area in this book:

 

https://indiafacts.org/excavations-show-the-cultural-continuity-of-the-vedic-harappans/

 

Indeed, recent excavations in Kunaland Bhirrana have pointedly confirmed an already existing impression of civilizational continuity since the 6^th millennium BC. Neither has anything “proto-Harappan” been found in Mesopotamia or anywhere else outside India, of which the typically Harappan lifestyle could have descended.
 

 

Vedic Harappa

The continuity of the Harappan civilization is expressed in many ways. Several findings confirm the presence of Shiva in Harappa: lingam-yoni motifs are associated with a male figure seated in meditation posture, the same figure is the addressee of a bull sacrifice, and two attributes of Shiva are found together: a bull with a trident engraved on his hip.Ascetics are found depicted as sitting in Bhadrâsana (noble pose), Vajrâsana(diamond pose) or Siddhâsana (yogi pose).

There is also a depiction of a well-known Hindu fable: The Thirsty Crow. A deer could not drink from a narrow pitcher, but a crow could stick its beak in. When the water was still too low, it dropped stones into the pitcher so the water level rose, and he could drink.

Statuettes show the Namaste salute with folded hands. Married women are shown wearing red powder in the parting of their hair, like their modern granddaughters. The Harappan ladies wore spiraled bangles and other cosmetic gadgetry that is still in use today.

Concludes the dean of Indian archaeology: “So, it is abundantly clear that all the objections against a Harappan-Vedic equation are baseless.”(p.151) Indeed, “the Harappan civilization and the Vedas are but two faces of the same coin.” (p.123)

[ash]

57 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

The Harappan ladies wore spiraled bangles and other cosmetic gadgetry that is still in use today.

Any logical person can easily infer this is probably because the Migrating Aryans adapted to the Late Harappan civilisation and copied some of their customs. But yeah I agree I cannot expect Logic from RW. 
 

1000 years later even Jeans and T-shirts can become the great Indian legacy with this great RW spin. 

[Mariyam]

2 minutes ago, ash said:

Any logical person can easily infer this is probably because the Migrating Aryans adapted to the Late Harappan civilisation and copied some of their customs. But yeah I agree I cannot expect Logic from RW. 
 

1000 years later even Jeans and T-shirts can become the great Indian legacy with this great RW spin. 

FWIW,

The precursor to the jeans is the dungaree cloth pant. That word was a British mispronunciation of Dongri, near the docks in Bombay, from whence the cloth was sourced.

Unfortunately, today Dongri is known for a product far more harmful that the dungaree, which at worst gives you a rash on the waistline: Dawood Ibrahim.

[coffee_rules]

6 minutes ago, ash said:

Any logical person can easily infer this is probably because the Migrating Aryans adapted to the Late Harappan civilisation and copied some of their customs. But yeah I agree I cannot expect Logic from RW. 
 

1000 years later even Jeans and T-shirts can become the great Indian legacy with this great RW spin. 

There is no archeological evidence of Vedic culture in alleged EU homeland , all evidence points to Indian homeland and a continuity or exchange of civilization. Logic , rational and reasoning is hard for the left since the days of Karlwa  Marxwa. You speak of arriving Aryans , did they teach IVC people yoga and shiva worship too? As per your fav R1a was not present in IVC lone skeleton. 
 

The book lists artifacts that are still in use since IVC. B B lal is a scholar and a professor  and the director of ASI trained under British tutelage and was embraced by the left. Since the 80s he has been canceled by your ilk

[rkt.india]

4 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

 

Ok, let us assume Vedas existed 4000 years ago (the same time when Aryans invaded India). 

• But what about IVC? Why is there no mention of IVC in Vedas? 
• And more importantly, why is Sanskrit absolutely not present in IVC? 
• It is not a proof that neither Sanskrit nor Vedas are older than 5000 years? 

A religion does not become TRUE if it is only 4000 years old. 

 

If a religion claims that its gods created the universe and earth, then it should be much more ancient than 4000 years. 

 

Shiva and Krishna are Harappan gods.

[rkt.india]

Linguistic evidences are hogwash. Languages do cross race barriers. We brown Indians speak English bit that doesn't make us British or change is racially.

[rkt.india]

26 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

There is no archeological evidence of Vedic culture in alleged EU homeland , all evidence points to Indian homeland and a continuity or exchange of civilization. Logic , rational and reasoning is hard for the left since the days of Karlwa  Marxwa. You speak of arriving Aryans , did they teach IVC people yoga and shiva worship too? As per your fav R1a was not present in IVC lone skeleton. 
 

The book lists artifacts that are still in use since IVC. B B lal is a scholar and a professor  and the director of ASI trained under British tutelage and was embraced by the left. Since the 80s he has been canceled by your ilk

Vedas talk about Brahm muhurat, time of Brahm muhurat. What is that? What is Brahm muhurat in India? Wjatbis Brahm muhurat in Central Europe of Aryans came from there? Latitude difference denotes that Vedas were written in India.

[ash]

34 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

IVC people yoga and shiva worship too?

Anyone can interpret anything from a seal. The seal was a horned man in a sitting with animals. You can say it is Siva doing yoga when in reality it may be a portrait of a common man. Also yore conveniently ignoring the lack of Horse in the idols which takes a huge part in Rig Veda.

 

If Rig Veda has been around from 10000 BC as claimed and was part of India, then why did the Harappan Vedic culture not use Sanskrit ??  Also why is there no mention of an Urban civilisation like IVC in rig Veda? And most of all, where is the R1A gene in the IVC skeleton? 

You can claim all you want mama, I am glad that the Out of India theory is only famous among RW fanatics and all over world and in India, Aryan invasion theory is mainstream. And taught in schools. Your claims will be famous in Boomer uncle Dinner meetings, but won’t become mainstream 

[Alam_dar]

59 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

There is no archeological evidence of Vedic culture in alleged EU homeland ,

 

Culture and language and religion changed every few hundred kms even in ancient Europe 4000 years ago. There was no Uniform RELIGION or Bible that existed that time in whole Europe (as Indian right-wing claims that Vedas and Vedic religion existed uniformly existed in whole of India at that time). 

On the other hand, the existence of Sanskrit only after 4000 years is itself a proof of Aryans invasion. 

There is not a single proof of Sanskrit present in whole of India before 4000 years. 

Problem is Indian right-wing never answer this question directly. 

 

[Alam_dar]

Modern Scientific FACTS prove Vedic religion came into existence ONLY 4000-3500 years ago

1. Hindu Religion is absent in whole Indian History, which is older than 4000 years.
2. There are (1) no cave paintings, (2) no artefacts, (3) no sculptures, (4) no inscription, (5) no Sanskrit language present in whole India which proves any existence of Hindu/Vedic Religion.
3. Indus Valley Civilisation is about 4000 years old. Scientists found a lot of seals and sculptures and other material during the evacuation there, but there was absolutely no proof found of any Vedas, or Hindu Temples, or sculptures of Hindu gods or Sanskrit language there. 
4. DNA evidences, which suggests the presence of Aryan DNA in the present Hindu population. 
   But this Aryan DNA in the present Hindu population came only through the MALE Aryans, which proved this theory that only the Aryan Male Warriors invaded India, captured it, and then mated with the Indian women. 
   While the DNA of the ancient people of Indus Valley Civilisation proved that no Aryan DNA was present in them, which confirmed that Aryans invaded and captured whole India after the destruction of the Indus Valley Civilisation some 4000 years ago. 

 

First Proof: Hindu/Vedic Religion is absent in whole Indian History, which is older than 3500 years

Cave Paintings:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_paintings_in_India 

Almost all early painting in India survives in caves, as very few buildings from Ancient India survive, and though these were probably often painted, the work has been lost. The history of cave paintings in India or rock art range from drawings and paintings from prehistoric times, beginning around 30,000 BCE in the caves of Central India, typified by those at the Bhimbetka rock shelters

While the oldest Statues in the world are about 40,000 years old. 

For example, Löwenmensch, from Germany is c. 35–40,000 BP old.

Hindus claim that the Vedic gods were the most ancient ones who actually created the world, the and the Vedic Civilisation was the most ancient one, and they possessed the best craftsmanship. 

But then how could we answer this question that the paintings of Vedic gods are not even 3500 years old, despite thousands of other paintings and statues surviving which are much older than 3500 years old?

In short, there is no Hindu Temple, no sculpture of Hindu gods, no cave painting, no other proof of Hinduism is present in whole India, which is older than 3500 years old. 

 

2nd Proof: Indus Valley Civilisation

Summary:

1. The 2019 Study (link) of DNA of Harappan Woman showed that Indus Valley Civilisation (which existed till 4000 years ago) got NO Aryan DNA.
2. But present day Indians have all about 17.5% Aryan DNA.
   How that became possible?
   Science gives the answer that it was the time when the Aryans from the Russian Steppe invaded India and ended the Indus Valley Civilisation.
3. DNA shows that it were only the males from the Russian Steppe who arrived in India (i.e. no Aryan women came to India). (Link to the scientific study).
4. Aryan Males (as conquerors) got the first right to mate with the local women, while local men were prohibited on large scale to mate with their women. This aggressive approach resulted in 17.5% Aryan Males DNA in present day Indians

 

No Hindu gods were found in Harappa or Mohinjo-daro

1. There were thousands of toys and seals and idols were found in Indus Valley Civilisation, but there was not a single statue of Hindu god found.
2. And also there were thousands of houses present there, but not single Temple present in Harappa or whole Indus Valley Civilisation. In fact, Hindu gods are absent in whole India. The first statue of Hindu god is only about 2500 years old.
3. Same is about first Hindu temple, which is also only about 2500 years old.
4. And there are cave paintings in India, which are up to 31000 years old, but again no Hindu god or temple is present in those paintings.

In brief, there is no sign of Hindu religion or Hindu god or Hindu temples which are older than 2500 years in whole India.

All these scientific findings are breaking the Hindutva Pride of being the best of Human Race, and also destroying the claims by Hindutva brigade that Hindu religion is the oldest one in the world.

Please read all these scientific findings, and the harassment of the scientist from the BJP hindutva government and the hidutva Media here:

https://scroll.in/bulletins/250/this...-joy-of-giving

 

Pashupati Seal:

Hindu apologists came up with this excuse that a seal (known as Pashupati Seal) was found in the Indus Valley. They claim this Pashupati seal has the image of Lord Shiva upon it, and thus whole Indus Valley followed the Vedic/Hindu religion too. 

Answer:

Pashupati seal is in no way a solid proof of presence of Hindu Religion in the Indus Valley Civilisation.

Use your mind and question yourself, there were thousands of seals and statues who were found in the Indus Valley Civilisation. How come then ONLY ONE Seal has a figure which is some what similar to Shiva?

If Shiva were really a god of the Indus Valley Civilisation people, then there would have been hundreds (if not thousands) of seals with his figure?

Secondly, there is no proof that the figure on the seal was of lord Shiva. None of the statue of Shiva in India is similar to the one in the Pashupati seal. It is only a "Guess" that it is Shiva due to the presence of the animals in the seal.

You can read in details about this Pashupati seal here.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashupati_seal 

Here is the seal:

 

Hindu apologists claim:

* Animals are present in this seal. And lord Shiva was the master of animals too. This this person is the seal should be lord Shiva.

* Secondly, Shiva was master of Yoga. And this person is sitting in a Yoga position.

Answer:

Es explained earlier, there was Only One Pashupati seal recovered from whole of Indus Valley Civilisation. It lord Shiva was really worshipped by the Indus Valley people, then there should have been thousands of such seals and statues of Shiva should have been present there, along with temples.

Secondly, nowhere it has been written that this person in the seal is lord Shiva. It is only a guess by the Hindutva supporters. 

Thirdly, there is no guarantee that this person is sitting in Yoga position. If Indus Valley people really knew about Yoga, then there must have been thousands of other seals too present in the Indus Valley, showing people doing Yoga. Nevertheless, there is no other seal present which shows people with Yoga. More about Yoga please read the refutation here.

Thus both these conjectures provide no solid proof. Here is the original Shiva which is found in the Hindu temples from beginning till today.
 

You can see that Indian Lord Shiva has no "HORNS", and his Yoga style is also different.

The Celtic god "Cernunnos" has more resemblance to the Pashupati Seal than the lord Shiva:

Here is the Celtic god Lord Cernunnos:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cernunnos 

Contrary to the lord Shiva, this Celtic god Cenunnos has the Horns, and animals are also there and he is also sitting in position very much similar to the Pashupati seal.

Cernunnos is Lord of the Animals, and, in Celtic lore, is the master of the Wild Hunt. He has associations with prosperity and fertility. An important characteristic of Celtic myth and legend is zoomorphism, the transmogrification of humans to animals and animals to humans. Since zoomorphism is also linked to shamanism, it strengthens the connection between the central European origins of the Celts and the plains tribes of the Russian steppes, where shamanism first sprang up.

 

(Material taken from my older posts)

Edited May 29, 2022 by Alam_dar

[Alam_dar]

 

3rd Proof: DNA of present Indian Population

Present Indian population is a mixture of 3 ancestral groups:

1. Ancient Ancestral South Indians
2. The people of the Indus Valley Civilisation
3. People who migrated from the Pontic Steppe (commonly known as Aryans). 

None of these three groups exist today but it is their mixing that caused most of the modern Indian population to be formed.

Of these, the Ancient Ancestral South Indians were present across parts of the subcontinent that did not fall under the Indus Valley Civilisation. Their closest modern-day relatives are the tribes of the Andaman Islands.

Of these, the Indus Valley had no Steppe DNA. They mainly had a mixture of Iranian-farmer-related DNA as well as some DNA from Ancient Ancestral South Indians. In 2019, a latest research study  came out about the DNA sequencing of a woman from Indus Valley civilisation. Here is the link to this study (link). This proves that Aryan Invasion happened after the Indus Valley Civilisation had already been destroyed some 4000 years ago.

Of these, the 3rd group, the Steppe population came in from grasslands in Eastern Europe corresponding to modern-day Ukraine, Russia and Kazakhstan. The genetic research identifies that this Steppe ancestry burst into India during a “narrow time window” dated between 2,000 BC and 1,500 BC.

 

Hindutva claims about the Sunken City of Dwarka 

As mentioned above, there exist no proof of any Vedic Temple, or Vedic god, or any other proof of Hinduism which is older than 3500 years. 

Nevertheless, a new "Deception" by the Hindutva movement comes in form of their claim about the sunken city of Dwarka, which is 8000 years old. In their own words:

Hindu religious scriptures talk about ancient city of Dwaraka (ruled by lord krishna) and its characteristics.  Archaeologists have found city called Dwaraka, which is under the water today, and it was mentioned similarly like in Hindu texts and they estimate it to be 8000 old.  More info at below neutral sources: https://www.gounesco.com/where-mytho...ity-of-dwarka/ . Please do watch this video of comprising documentary of foreign scientists & archaeologists.

 Answer:

Not a single Hindu god or temple or any other thing has been found in Dwarka which shows Hinduism.

Let us see what Hindu sacred book is claiming about Dwarka. Taken from Link that you posted yourself above:

https://www.gounesco.com/where-mytho...ity-of-dwarka/
Mahabharat says that Dwarka had 900,000 royal palaces, all constructed with crystal and silver and decorated with emeralds. The city was connected by an elaborate system of boulevards, roads, market places, assembly houses and temples.

While up till now no crystal, silver or emeralds have been found. What scientists found was this (link):

 

These few underwater stones are far away from being the 900,000 royal palaces of crystal and silver, and with decoration of emeralds, as had been claimed in the Mahabharat. 

 

Did GODS in Vedas have any idea of "Aurochs" and that modern cows descended from them?

 The aurochs is an extinct species of large wild cattle that inhabited Asia, Europe, and North Africa. It is the ancestor of domestic cattle. 

In this image, you could see the comparison between wild Aurochs and domestic Cow. 

http://www.cambridgeblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/bull-cow-auroch-cattle-comp.jpg

In Vedas, the oldest of the Hindu scriptures, the cow is associated with Aditi, the mother of many gods. There are many verses in Vedas who praise the cows and their milk and consider them the blessing.  

I wonder if the Authors of the Vedas (the gods) had any idea about "Aurochs" and that the modern cows descended from them through the process of evolution? And it happened only 8000 ybp (years before present) in the Indus Valley? 

There are tons of fossils of Aurochs, but no fossil of any cow that is older than 8000 ybp.  

There are many cave painting who have these Aurochs, but none of the cave painting (older than 8000 years) all over the world have any cow.  

Here is one from cave painting of Indian Auroch from Bhimbetka rock shelters

 One wonders if religious people do ponder upon these contradictions in science and the religion? 

Reality is this that Aryans came only some 4000-3500 years ago, and then they created the Hindu religion and wrote the Vedas themselves. Thus it resulted in mentioning of cows and their milk everywhere in the Vedas. This proves that neither the Hindu gods created the universe, nor Vedas are ancient, but all that started after the arrival of the Aryans. 

 

(All material taken from my older posts).

Edited May 29, 2022 by Alam_dar

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, ash said:

Anyone can interpret anything from a seal. The seal was a horned man in a sitting with animals. You can say it is Siva doing yoga when in reality it may be a portrait of a common man. Also yore conveniently ignoring the lack of Horse in the idols which takes a huge part in Rig Veda.

 

If Rig Veda has been around from 10000 BC as claimed and was part of India, then why did the Harappan Vedic culture not use Sanskrit ??  Also why is there no mention of an Urban civilisation like IVC in rig Veda? And most of all, where is the R1A gene in the IVC skeleton? 

You can claim all you want mama, I am glad that the Out of India theory is only famous among RW fanatics and all over world and in India, Aryan invasion theory is mainstream. And taught in schools. Your claims will be famous in Boomer uncle Dinner meetings, but won’t become mainstream 

No sane RV says RW is from 10000 BC. Chronology is about 2k before what Max Mueller said and what you guys think as Bible.  Sanskrit and Vedas were passed orally which tickheads don’t get. Horse theory is debunked by recent Rakhigarhi excavations and skeletal remains of horses found with chariot like carts.
Calling names is what you dumeel caldwellites know.
 

OIT (out of india) was not started by RW, it was popular in 18th century French and Dutch indologlists. Germans with MAx Mueller  and other Brit indologists hijacked the Aryan theory which the Brits used to justify colonialism. You dumeels are still lapping up what your missionary Caldwell taught you about Dravidism. Idiots don’t read books but echo what DMK gurus teach you in missionary schools. Poda poi yengeyaara toong  

 

R1a is what you are hanging onto like a strawman. Pppulation genetics is taken over humanities students with illogical conjectures made from what is written as a hypothesis in research papers. 

Edited May 29, 2022 by coffee_rules

[coffee_rules]

36 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

 

Culture and language and religion changed every few hundred kms even in ancient Europe 4000 years ago. There was no Uniform RELIGION or Bible that existed that time in whole Europe (as Indian right-wing claims that Vedas and Vedic religion existed uniformly existed in whole of India at that time). 

On the other hand, the existence of Sanskrit only after 4000 years is itself a proof of Aryans invasion. 

There is not a single proof of Sanskrit present in whole of India before 4000 years. 

Problem is Indian right-wing never answer this question directly. 

 

what is the proof of Sanskrit in Aryans before coming to India on horses? 
 

There is no culture and language genes to prove, like you guys are inferring 

[coffee_rules]

19 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

 

3rd Proof: DNA of present Indian Population

Present Indian population is a mixture of 3 ancestral groups:

1. Ancient Ancestral South Indians
2. The people of the Indus Valley Civilisation
3. People who migrated from the Pontic Steppe (commonly known as Aryans). 

None of these three groups exist today but it is their mixing that caused most of the modern Indian population to be formed.

Of these, the Ancient Ancestral South Indians were present across parts of the subcontinent that did not fall under the Indus Valley Civilisation. Their closest modern-day relatives are the tribes of the Andaman Islands.

Of these, the Indus Valley had no Steppe DNA. They mainly had a mixture of Iranian-farmer-related DNA as well as some DNA from Ancient Ancestral South Indians. In 2019, a latest research study  came out about the DNA sequencing of a woman from Indus Valley civilisation. Here is the link to this study (link). This proves that Aryan Invasion happened after the Indus Valley Civilisation had already been destroyed some 4000 years ago.

Of these, the 3rd group, the Steppe population came in from grasslands in Eastern Europe corresponding to modern-day Ukraine, Russia and Kazakhstan. The genetic research identifies that this Steppe ancestry burst into India during a “narrow time window” dated between 2,000 BC and 1,500 BC.

 

Hindutva claims about the Sunken City of Dwarka 

As mentioned above, there exist no proof of any Vedic Temple, or Vedic god, or any other proof of Hinduism which is older than 3500 years. 

Nevertheless, a new "Deception" by the Hindutva movement comes in form of their claim about the sunken city of Dwarka, which is 8000 years old. In their own words:

Hindu religious scriptures talk about ancient city of Dwaraka (ruled by lord krishna) and its characteristics.  Archaeologists have found city called Dwaraka, which is under the water today, and it was mentioned similarly like in Hindu texts and they estimate it to be 8000 old.  More info at below neutral sources: https://www.gounesco.com/where-mytho...ity-of-dwarka/ . Please do watch this video of comprising documentary of foreign scientists & archaeologists.

 Answer:

Not a single Hindu god or temple or any other thing has been found in Dwarka which shows Hinduism.

Let us see what Hindu sacred book is claiming about Dwarka. Taken from Link that you posted yourself above:

https://www.gounesco.com/where-mytho...ity-of-dwarka/
Mahabharat says that Dwarka had 900,000 royal palaces, all constructed with crystal and silver and decorated with emeralds. The city was connected by an elaborate system of boulevards, roads, market places, assembly houses and temples.

While up till now no crystal, silver or emeralds have been found. What scientists found was this (link):

 

These few underwater stones are far away from being the 900,000 royal palaces of crystal and silver, and with decoration of emeralds, as had been claimed in the Mahabharat. 

 

Did GODS in Vedas have any idea of "Aurochs" and that modern cows descended from them?

 The aurochs is an extinct species of large wild cattle that inhabited Asia, Europe, and North Africa. It is the ancestor of domestic cattle. 

In this image, you could see the comparison between wild Aurochs and domestic Cow. 

http://www.cambridgeblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/bull-cow-auroch-cattle-comp.jpg

In Vedas, the oldest of the Hindu scriptures, the cow is associated with Aditi, the mother of many gods. There are many verses in Vedas who praise the cows and their milk and consider them the blessing.  

I wonder if the Authors of the Vedas (the gods) had any idea about "Aurochs" and that the modern cows descended from them through the process of evolution? And it happened only 8000 ybp (years before present) in the Indus Valley? 

There are tons of fossils of Aurochs, but no fossil of any cow that is older than 8000 ybp.  

There are many cave painting who have these Aurochs, but none of the cave painting (older than 8000 years) all over the world have any cow.  

Here is one from cave painting of Indian Auroch from Bhimbetka rock shelters

 One wonders if religious people do ponder upon these contradictions in science and the religion? 

Reality is this that Aryans came only some 4000-3500 years ago, and then they created the Hindu religion and wrote the Vedas themselves. Thus it resulted in mentioning of cows and their milk everywhere in the Vedas. This proves that neither the Hindu gods created the universe, nor Vedas are ancient, but all that started after the arrival of the Aryans. 

 

(All material taken from my older posts).

Pointless to debate on Wikipedia cut and pastes which are filled with leftist propaganda material. All material has been discussed which is pointless to dig out again

[Alam_dar]

16 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Pointless to debate on Wikipedia cut and pastes

 

Wikipedia is not wrong as tons of alternative sources present about every reference. 

Please tell me exactly where Wikipedia is wrong and telling a lie according to you, and I will provide alternative references. 

 

16 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

All material has been discussed which is pointless to dig out again

 

It is your opinion.

While in my opinion, these questions have not been answered before. 

[ash]

30 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

what is the proof of Sanskrit in Aryans before coming to India on horses? 

https://indianexpress.com/article/research/why-sanskrit-has-strong-links-to-european-languages-and-what-it-learnt-in-india-6536674/lite/

[ash]

49 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Rakhigarhi excavations and skeletal remains of horses found with chariot like carts.

Nope, wrong again. There was a Cart found with no animal remains. It could have been driven by an ox. Don’t try to twist facts mama