THE KING GRINNED RED

[Vijy]

On 12/24/2023 at 5:19 PM, Lord said:

 

Agree about Viv. He's the greatest all format batter ever imo.

there were 2 formats when Viv played. only 1 when Don Bradman played.

 

I have little doubt that Don would have outdone Viv in ODIs. Although, he would be a diff type of player - a brisk (but not fast) scorer, extremely efficient especially on patta-type pitches, and highly consistent. basically like a zaheer abbas on steroids if he played in the 80s, or like peak VK if he played in the 2010s.

 

Just to clarify, I am not talking about lifting Don from 40s and directly shoving him into this era; of course, the requirements are very different. what I mean is that IF he were born in the eras I am writing above.

[Lord]

7 minutes ago, Vijy said:

there were 2 formats when Viv played. only 1 when Don Bradman played.

 

I have little doubt that Don would have outdone Viv in ODIs. Although, he would be a diff type of player - a brisk (but not fast) scorer, extremely efficient especially on patta-type pitches, and highly consistent. basically like a zaheer abbas on steroids if he played in the 80s, or like peak VK if he played in the 2010s.

 

Just to clarify, I am not talking about lifting Don from 40s and directly shoving him into this era; of course, the requirements are very different. what I mean is that IF he were born in the eras I am writing above.

 

Those 2 are good analogies and that's why I said Viv. Viv would have been like better version of  ABDV/Sachin having a solid game when required but also a destructive streak with his big hitting especially required in T20. The guy used to clear much bigger boundaries easily with lighter bats

[Vijy]

Just now, Lord said:

 

Those 2 are good analogies and that's why I said Viv. Viv would have been like better version of  ABDV/Sachin having a solid game when required but also a destructive streak with his big hitting especially required in T20. The guy used to clear much bigger boundaries easily with lighter bats

I think Don in 80s would have trumped Viv if we use the reasonable measure of (normalized) avg * SR. he would have somewhat lower SR than Viv, but higher avg IMO. perhaps 60+ given his machine-like consistency.

[putrevus]

26 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Those 2 are good analogies and that's why I said Viv. Viv would have been like better version of  ABDV/Sachin having a solid game when required but also a destructive streak with his big hitting especially required in T20. The guy used to clear much bigger boundaries easily with lighter bats

I doubt Viv had solid game when required on juicy pitches. That undermine greatness of that WI team. There are very few batsman like Clive Lloyd when chips were down .

 

He could walk 1/3 and score a century like he did against India in 1983.

 

Viv was great batsman but he played for the best team which had best bowlers.He never faced his own bowlers.

 

IMO there is noone like Kohli in odis.He is best odi batsmen , no one comes close.There is no weakness in his odi game.Has he failed in some crucial matches yes but that cannot not take away anything from his greatness.

Edited January 4 by putrevus

[Vijy]

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I doubt Viv had solid game when required on juicy pitches. That undermine greatness of that WI team. There are very few batsman like Clive Lloyd when chips were down .

 

He could walk 1/3 and score a century like he did against India in 1983.

 

Viv was great batsman but he played for the best team which had best bowlers.He never faced his own bowlers.

 

IMO there is noone like Kohli in odis.He is best odi batsmen , no one comes close.There is no weakness in his odi game.Has he failed in some crucial matches yes but that cannot not take away anything from his greatness.

viv's 189 was greater than anything lloyd did in his entire career.

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I doubt Viv had solid game when required on juicy pitches. That undermine greatness of that WI team. There are very few batsman like Clive Lloyd when chips were down .

 

He could walk 1/3 and score a century like he did against India in 1983.

 

Viv was great batsman but he played for the best team which had best bowlers.He never faced his own bowlers.

 

IMO there is noone like Kohli in odis.He is best odi batsmen , no one comes close.There is no weakness in his odi game.Has he failed in some crucial matches yes but that cannot not take away anything from his greatness.

 

Yes but its also the easiest era in ODI batting. Tracks are flatter,boundaries shorter.

 

I can't imagine him dominating someone like McGrath, Wasim in 90s. Or even Murali/Warne.

 

Viv did have the big match temperament. and there were good bowlers in other teams too.

[Vijy]

Just now, Lord said:

 

Yes but its also the easiest era in ODI batting. Tracks are flatter,boundaries shorter.

 

I can't imagine him dominating someone like McGrath, Wasim in 90s. Or even Murali/Warne.

 

Viv did have the big match temperament. and there were good bowlers in other teams too.

viv scored a 100 in the 1979 final. and fielded brilliantly (although failed with bat) in 1975. even in 1983 final, he was best batter on both sides comfortably

[putrevus]

18 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Yes but its also the easiest era in ODI batting. Tracks are flatter,boundaries shorter.

 

I can't imagine him dominating someone like McGrath, Wasim in 90s. Or even Murali/Warne.

 

Viv did have the big match temperament. and there were good bowlers in other teams too.

Kohli batting translates to any era, he bats risk free for most  part and his game is dependent on running between the wickets and odd boundary here and there.

 

Big match temperment of VIV in 1975 and 83 finals, did it go for walk. 

 

Kohli can dominate Mcgrath or Ambrose not by hitting boundaries but playing risk free cricket.

 

He does not need a release shot to increase RR. That is why he can bat against anyone anywhere in any era..

 

 

[putrevus]

27 minutes ago, Vijy said:

viv's 189 was greater than anything lloyd did in his entire career.

So what, we will give Viv a medal for scoring a great 100. Lloyd also scored 100 in 1975 finals  against afar better bowling attack with prime Lillee and Thompson and took took two wickets to win the cup.

 

I never said Lloyd was better batsman than Viv.

 

 

[Vijy]

Just now, putrevus said:

So what, we will give Viv a medal for scoring a great 100. Lloyd also scored 100 in 1975 finals  against afar better bowling attack with prime Lillee and Thompson and took took two wickets to win the cup.

 

I never said Lloyd was better batsman than Viv.

 

 

didn't you say that lloyd was more clutch than viv? if you did, then I would say there are plenty of counterexamples from viv.

[putrevus]

4 minutes ago, Vijy said:

didn't you say that lloyd was more clutch than viv? if you did, then I would say there are plenty of counterexamples from viv.

I said there are very few batsmen who played well like Lloyd did when chips were down.

 

That WI team was loaded , it is still to me best team in history of cricket in all formats.Viv was their best batsman. That 1983 win pure miracle , Kapil said it best, he was not sure of winning the match until Lloyd got out.

[Vijy]

5 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I said there are very few batsmen who played well like Lloyd did when chips were down.

 

That WI team was loaded , it is still to me best team in history of cricket in all formats.Viv was their best batsman. That 1983 win pure miracle , Kapil said it best, he was not sure of winning the match until Lloyd got out.

I agree viv was their best bat, that's pretty self evident

 

regd kapil's comment: kapil was going by past aura. by '83, lloyd was mostly spent, with some odd knocks here and there. it's like how MSD was spent in 2019, but still had some aura.

Edited January 4 by Vijy

[putrevus]

2 hours ago, Vijy said:

I agree viv was their best bat, that's pretty self evident

 

regd kapil's comment: kapil was going by past aura. by '83, lloyd was mostly spent, with some odd knocks here and there. it's like how MSD was spent in 2019, but still had some aura.

How was he spent force in 1983, he was the best batsman in the return test series just after the world cup a by mile in 1983, he was best batsman and one of the main reasons why WI won that series 3-0 .Even in last test series he and Gomes outscored Viv.

 

Viv was great but he was not the sole  reason why that WI team is called greatest.Lloyd was the reason for that team's greatness as captain he moulded that team into great one.He was their fatherly figure who could save the team also in crisis by batting.

Edited January 4 by putrevus

[Lord]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

Kohli batting translates to any era, he bats risk free for most  part and his game is dependent on running between the wickets and odd boundary here and there.

 

Big match temperment of VIV in 1975 and 83 finals, did it go for walk. 

 

Kohli can dominate Mcgrath or Ambrose not by hitting boundaries but playing risk free cricket.

 

He does not need a release shot to increase RR. That is why he can bat against anyone anywhere in any era..

 

 

 

All that works only when the ball is not moving or bouncing. You won't get any runs without taking risk v McGrath/Ambrose. They don't spray like modern bowlers.

 

Viv did well in 79 and was best batter in 83 finals too. Kohli is yet to do anything like that which is ironic as biggest test in modern ODI batting is performance in big games only.

[putrevus]

17 hours ago, Lord said:

 

All that works only when the ball is not moving or bouncing. You won't get any runs without taking risk v McGrath/Ambrose. They don't spray like modern bowlers.

 

Viv did well in 79 and was best batter in 83 finals too. Kohli is yet to do anything like that which is ironic as biggest test in modern ODI batting is performance in big games only.

Mcgrath rarely moved ball in odis nor did Ambrose. Kohli would have no problem in facing either of them and milking them for singles and hitting odd bopundary.

 

Kohli is not some idiot who cannot play moving ball or play bounce.

 

 

Kohli was best batsmen in whole tournament by even at this late stage in  career. One or two matches should not define any great player.

 

Kohli was highest score in CT 2013 finals  when India won the cup.Nobody cares about it.

 

If guy like Bevan with all his weaknesses as a test batsman play Ambrose,Akram and all other bowlers. Kohli sure can handle them with ease.

 

Overall as a odi batsman , there is no one better than Kohli in history.He is class by himself in odis.

Edited January 5 by putrevus

[harpicP]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

 

All that works only when the ball is not moving or bouncing. You won't get any runs without taking risk v McGrath/Ambrose. They don't spray like modern bowlers.

 

Viv did well in 79 and was best batter in 83 finals too. Kohli is yet to do anything like that which is ironic as biggest test in modern ODI batting is performance in big games only.

I think mcgrath Ambrose and even Walsh would be kohlis worst match ups. Don't think he would survive vs them in an era. In odi or tests. Don't matter. They will bowl outside off and clean him up every time. 

[harpicP]

52 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Mcgrath rarely moved ball in odis nor did Ambrose. Kohli would have no problem in facing either of them and milking them for singles and hitting odd bopundary.

 

Kohli is not some idiot who cannot play moving ball or play bounce.

 

 

Kohli was best batsmen in whole tournament by even at this late stage in  career. One or two matches should not define any great player.

 

Kohli was highest score in CT 2013 finals  when India won the cup.Nobody cares about it.

 

Overall as a odi batsman , there is no one better than Kohli in history.He is class by himself in odis.

Kohli can play bounce but he isn't good vs moving ball

[New guy]

On 10/23/2022 at 5:34 PM, Adamant said:

Behold the King
The King of Kings.
On you knees dog.
All hail.
Bow down to the...
Bow down to the King.

Bow down to the...
Bow down to the King.

The King grinned red.
As he walked from the place.
Where the traitor lost both
his name and his face.

Through the halls and the corridors
stinging in blood.
He tasted his grin
and it tasted good.
The King took his head.
Left him broken and dead

Bow down to the...
Bow down to the King.

Bow down to the...
Bow down to the King.

All bow down to ->
The GOAT ASIAN TEST CAPTAIN and THE GOAT T20I player

 

Never make your masturbatory sessions public. 

[Nikhil_cric]

This Motorhead song is neither applicable to Triple H nor to Kohli

 

Neither are GOATs (there's maybe a case for Kohli in ODI's )

[Nikhil_cric]

On 1/5/2024 at 2:14 AM, putrevus said:

Mcgrath rarely moved ball in odis nor did Ambrose. Kohli would have no problem in facing either of them and milking them for singles and hitting odd bopundary.

 

Kohli is not some idiot who cannot play moving ball or play bounce.

 

 

Kohli was best batsmen in whole tournament by even at this late stage in  career. One or two matches should not define any great player.

 

Kohli was highest score in CT 2013 finals  when India won the cup.Nobody cares about it.

 

If guy like Bevan with all his weaknesses as a test batsman play Ambrose,Akram and all other bowlers. Kohli sure can handle them with ease.

 

Overall as a odi batsman , there is no one better than Kohli in history.He is class by himself in odis.

Kohli averages 11.6 and strikes at 59.2 against Hazlewood. 

 

No guarantee that Kohli could have scored that easily against Mcgrath