Was Brat-Shastri combo really that good?

[R!TTER]

So these are some of the chases which we managed to botch under their tutelage!

 

1) 2015 vs SL chasing 176 first test (chase-able target on difficult turning pitch)

2) 2018 vs SA chasing 208 first test (chase-able target on difficult seaming pitch)

3) 2018 vs SA chasing 287 second test

4) 2018 vs Eng chasing 194 first test (chase-able target on difficult seaming pitch)

5) 2018 vs Eng chasing 245 4th test (chase-able target on difficult turning pitch)

6) 2018 vs Eng chasing 464 last test

 

In all 4 of the tests I highlighted we were in a winning position at some point or another, but choked regularly under the leadership of Kohli

 

Ironically our 3 best chases in this time have all come under Rahane -

1) Dharmshala vs Oz 2017, Pajara got out for a duck & we had a tricky chase of slightly above 100 which was easily completed due to Rahane's counterattack * KL's fifty

2) MCG 2020 - again similar situation & Rahane played an attacking innings

3) Of course the best of the lot - Brisbane 2021 when Gill & Pant played crucial roles in the near unbelievable win but Rahane also showed intent that we were going for the target!

 

The point is for all the plaudits that Brat gets, rightly or wrongly, alongside this fake notion that Shastri was a great coach (by some of their fans now) they were *ing awful in the 4th innings as well. Our team was good that's why we won as regul;arly as we did, the tactics by the dudly duo weren't that bright as some of you might be reminiscing about right now

[Vijy]

we have always been big chokers in 4th innings chases. I recall the notorious 96-97 test in WI where we could not chase 120 with a batting lineup consisting of VVS, Sidhu, Tendu, Drabid, Gangu and Azhar [4 of these batters have 45+ avgs] and the useful lower-order batting of mongia and kumble.

 

Indian mentality is to choke, and choke hard. biggest bunch of mentally weak divas I've seen in cricket, along with Saffers

Edited December 24, 2022 by Vijy

[sandeep]

@R!TTER

 

Can you list 3 to 5 positive things about Indian cricket in the last 5-7 years? 

[vvvslaxman]

 One difference they were against SENA teams in their conditions lol  RRR combo has turned this into an ordeal against      Bangladesh lol

[Vijy]

6 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 One difference they were against SENA teams in their conditions lol  RRR combo has turned this into an ordeal against      Bangladesh lol

soon they will struggle to win vs Zim and Ire and Afg too

[AKane]

5 hours ago, Vijy said:

I recall the notorious 96-97 test in WI where we could not chase 120 with a batting lineup consisting of VVS, Sidhu, Tendu, Drabid, Gangu and Azhar [4 of these batters have 45+ avgs] and the useful lower-order batting of mongia and kumble.

 

 

yeah but we got Windies out for 140 in I2 on that pitch with Prasad and Kuruvilla.

 

I was immediately nervous seeing that Windies then had Ambrose and Bishop to bowl at us.

[Vijy]

4 minutes ago, AKane said:

 

yeah but we got Windies out for 140 in I2 on that pitch with Prasad and Kuruvilla.

 

I was immediately nervous seeing that Windies then had Ambrose and Bishop to bowl at us.

with that lineup, 140 should have been chased. also remember the time where shaun udal and co bowled us out in india when we should have drawn. infamous sydney test (with bucknor) is one more

[vvvslaxman]

7 minutes ago, Vijy said:

with that lineup, 140 should have been chased. also remember the time where shaun udal and co bowled us out in india when we should have drawn. infamous sydney test (with bucknor) is one more

 

4 or 5 dismissals of Indian batsmen were of gigantic overstepped noballs. India was at the wrong end  of the stick. 

[Vijy]

14 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

4 or 5 dismissals of Indian batsmen were of gigantic overstepped noballs. India was at the wrong end  of the stick. 

yep, huge noballs. but they should have got it done.

 

also, let's not get fixated on one example, which I gave as an illustration. I can reel off several instances where we did poorly in matches we should have drawn or won even with Fab 4 or fab 5 playing.

[Frustrated]

They were not that good.   But dravid and kela, with their shocking performance are making them look better than they were. 

[Vijy]

35 minutes ago, Frustrated said:

They were not that good.   But dravid and kela, with their shocking performance are making them look better than they were. 

Rahul-Rohit-Rahul (RRR) --> the great trio

[R!TTER]

7 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 One difference they were against SENA teams in their conditions lol  RRR combo has turned this into an ordeal against      Bangladesh lol

It's a natural progression, Pujara/Kohli/Rahane were all in form when the regime started. Now it's  just like the last few years of MS' stint. The same goes for our bowling where Ashwin is clearly nowhere near the same as his peak around 2015-18 & Jadeja's not bowling as well as he used to either!

 

I forgot to add that if we're giving credit to Brat for our bowling - we should be damning him for our lack of batting depth as well. It was on his watch that none of the young batters flourished & in some ways deliberately so - bringing Dhawan back for 2018 away tours, dropping Karun after his triple all happened under him!

Edited December 25, 2022 by R!TTER

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, R!TTER said:

It's a natural progression, Pujara/Kohli/Rahane were all in form when the regime started. Now it's  just like the last few years of MS' stint. The same goes for our bowling where Ashwin is clearly nowhere near teh same as his peak around 2015-18 & Jadeja's not bowling as well as he used to either!

and axar is a more limited bowler than this duo at their peak.

[sandeep]

OP only opens his mouth to vent and attack Indian team - honestly, in all these years I cannot recall him saying anything remotely positive about Indian team.  

[vvvslaxman]

15 hours ago, R!TTER said:

It's a natural progression, Pujara/Kohli/Rahane were all in form when the regime started. Now it's  just like the last few years of MS' stint. The same goes for our bowling where Ashwin is clearly nowhere near the same as his peak around 2015-18 & Jadeja's not bowling as well as he used to either!

 

I forgot to add that if we're giving credit to Brat for our bowling - we should be damning him for our lack of batting depth as well. It was on his watch that none of the young batters flourished & in some ways deliberately so - bringing Dhawan back for 2018 away tours, dropping Karun after his triple all happened under him!

 

 

All those things were rightly called out. I think this administration  has disintegrated one thing that was going for us. Fast bowling. Brought back all the trundlers. Head coach makes statement like "Their bowling is sexy but our bowling is effective" suggesting trundlers are here to stay. Sitting out Kuldeep is probably the worst thing that has happened to us in a long time. 

[Vijy]

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

 

All those things were rightly called out. I think this administration  has disintegrated one thing that was going for us. Fast bowling. Brought back all the trundlers. Head coach makes statement like "Their bowling is sexy but our bowling is effective" suggesting trundlers are here to stay. Sitting out Kuldeep is probably the worst thing that has happened to us in a long time. 

they will find ways to bench pant, iyer (in SC), etc too.