Pick your 10 greatest test all rounders of all-time

[zen]

1 minute ago, Vijy said:

he did okay in home conditions, but didn't do well with the bat in aus (20.4), WI (22.8), eng (26.9), and Ind (11.0). he was definitely below the other 3 (or 4-5 if one adds proctor and rice) with the bat. not just stats-wise, but in terms of just ability. he was the best bowler of the lot though

 

Those are good averages in those countries 

 

Kapil, who was known for "ability" with the bat for e.g. averaged 10 in NZ, 19 in Aus, 29 in WI 

 

 

 

 

[Pollack]

14 hours ago, AuxiliA said:

Why people here are rating Mankad over Ashwin and Jadeja? Makes ZERO sense. 

 

 

Ashwin can make into top 20 allrounders of all time in tests. As for Jadeja he hardly played any tests didn't bowl and was mostly part timer in ODIs. Also a fixer can never be included in any ATG list

[Pollack]

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[Pollack]

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[Pollack]

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[Pollack]

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[Pollack]

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[speedracer]

14 minutes ago, Pollack said:

Ashwin can make into top 20 allrounders of all time in tests. As for Jadeja he hardly played any tests didn't bowl and was mostly part timer in ODIs. Also a fixer can never be included in any ATG list

Has Anderson really outperformed ash though? Just wondering. 

 

[Majestic]

I think Hadlee, Pollock and Ashwin all three have done enough to be classified as all rounders in Tests.

 

The marginal differences shouldn't go against them.

 

In terms of tons, Ashwin is ahead of SP and RH.

 

In terms of average, SP is ahead of RA and RH.

 

In terms of playing for a weak team and still able to stood up, Hadlee is ahead.

 

Statistically, anyone with 3000+ runs and 25+ batting average should be classified as all rounder assuming we are discussing about his batting as secondary skill.

 

[zen]

My top 3:

 

Sobers: Batting AR and the greatest cricketer. 
 

Hadlee: Bowling AR and among the biggest match winners. 
 

Imran: A example of a relatively balanced  batting-bowling AR (tilt towards bowling but this is the best it gets when speaking of balance relatively)
 

[Vijy]

technically, since OP didn't mention gender, there is no doubt that statistically Betty Wilson is the greatest AR of all time.

 

Batting avg of 57.5 [50+ scores at a frequency of once every 2 innings]

Bowling avg of 11.8 [>6 wickets per match, and 4+ wickets achieved once every 5 innings]

 

basically, the record looks like the stick/book cricket that one would have played in childhood.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Vijy

[AuxiliA]

On 1/2/2023 at 9:34 AM, Pollack said:

Ashwin can make into top 20 allrounders of all time in tests. As for Jadeja he hardly played any tests didn't bowl and was mostly part timer in ODIs. Also a fixer can never be included in any ATG list

 

Are you high?

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, AuxiliA said:

 

Are you high?

he is referring to ajay jadeja.

[Majestic]

9 hours ago, Vijy said:

technically, since OP didn't mention gender, there is no doubt that statistically Betty Wilson is the greatest AR of all time.

 

Batting avg of 57.5 [50+ scores at a frequency of once every 2 innings]

Bowling avg of 11.8 [>6 wickets per match, and 4+ wickets achieved once every 5 innings]

 

basically, the record looks like the stick/book cricket that one would have played in childhood.

What about Ellyse Perry?

 

Bat AVG 75

Bowl AVG 19

[Vijy]

5 hours ago, Majestic said:

What about Ellyse Perry?

 

Bat AVG 75

Bowl AVG 19

too many batting NOs for Perry that helped boost avg. moreover, she is not half the bowler that Wilson was in terms of metrics other than avg.

 

I think the greatest 4 ARs in women's cricket are as follows:

 

1. betty wilson

2. enid bakewell

3. ellyse perry

4. Myrtle Maclagan

 

one must remember that wickets per match are an important indicator of how much someone bowls and thus contributes to a win. a useful rule of thumb is that 1 wicket is about 25 runs. someone who is bowling as much as a frontline bowler (taking 4-5 wickets per match), while also maintaining a batting avg of about 40 would be nearly as useful as someone taking 3 wickets per match and an avg of around 60.

[Tibarn]

Food for thought: CricViz statistics show Jadeja as the 2nd most valuable player since 2000, after MM. It would be hard to find many allrounders better than that. 

 

 

[Tibarn]

Jadeja's batting and bowling stats in comparison to other players in the same match

 

In most countries, Jadeja averages in the 20s while bowling, while other spinners on the same pitches average 30s or 40s. England is the only black-mark on his record and there the matches are often on green tracks where they last less than 5 days. 

[Majestic]

Jadeja's batting average is good but his runs tally is still pretty low. 2500 runs is not enough for a genuine all rounder. He needs to take that close to 4000. Currently, his average is inflated by not outs- 20 of them in 60 tests.

 

[Vijy]

33 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Jadeja's batting average is good but his runs tally is still pretty low. 2500 runs is not enough for a genuine all rounder. He needs to take that close to 4000. Currently, his average is inflated by not outs- 20 of them in 60 tests.

 

it's because he was a bowler who could bat for first half of his career.

[Majestic]

9 minutes ago, Vijy said:

it's because he was a bowler who could bat for first half of his career.

I want him to take that to a bit more higher.

 

In first half I remember he would often bat below Ashwin. Ashwin for a short while batted at 6, Saha at 7 and Jadeja coming at 8. 

 

As a result, Jadeja ended with quite a few not outs but not enough runs. He certainly had the batting talent as he had scored triple tons in domestic. But it took him a while before he came into his own. During early part of his career, he was laughed off and trolled for not being good enough in both the facets- batting or bowling. His test bowling went underrated as a result.