What next after Ashwin-Jadeja?

[deepdynamo]

It is quite clear that India unreal domination at home since 2013 is because of Ashwin (36 years) & Jadeja (34 years).

But both of these will eventually need to be replaced in about 2 years time.

So, what are our options?

1) Kuldeep is a straight swap and I believe he will be as good as Ashwin/Jadeja at home. But he is an inferior batsman.
2)  Not convinced on Axar as yet. Seems one dimensional as of now.
3)  Washington is a batsman who can bowl tight offspin. Can be a useful 3rd spinner at home if we able to find two wicket taking spinners.

Next in line is Saurabh Kumar as he played as lead spinner in last 3 India A tour ( BD, NZ and SA) with good success. He can bat as well and maybe a worthy successor to Jadeja.
Other spinners tried in last 3 A tours were Rahul Chahar ( more suited to white ball ) & Gowtham ( Fraud).

 

We must develop spinners in next 2 years otherwise the dominance will come to an end eventually.

 

[deepdynamo]

Potential India spinners who performed in Ranji season 22-23 ( not including domestic veteran like Jalal Saxena & S Nadeem because of age)

S Mulani ( 25 years)
M Suthar ( 20 years )
K Kartikya ( 25 years)
S Desai ( 22 years)
N Rathva ( 23 years)
R Sai Kishor ( 26 years)
A Roy ( 24 years)

Only bugger is that all of them are SLA and almost all of them can bat as well.
No upcoming off spinner or legspinner in the entire country.




 

[vvvslaxman]

Off spinners are gone. Sundar is more a batsman who can bowl off spin. Steady line and length. Not as much as Ashwin. Straight away your domination against left handers taken away. Jadeja as a bowler has incredibly worked well with Ashwin. Different type of bowlers complementing each other. I expect Ashwin to be around for another couple of years at the most. Jaddu may be 2 years given his injuries.

So we have some time to groom. Jadeja is replaceable as India has become like bangladesh full of left arm ortodox bowlers. Ashwin may never be replaced. 

[deepdynamo]

The 3rd spinner is generally under bowled if the main 2 spinners are top level.

 

That is why Axar has taken only 1 wicket in 3 innings so far in this series and is under bowled.

As of now, Realistic combination assuming Jadeja/Ashwin not available 

Kuldeep
Axar ( will prefer Saurabh Kumar)
Washington ( support bowler)

[Lord]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

Off spinners are gone. Sundar is more a batsman who can bowl off spin. Steady line and length. Not as much as Ashwin. Straight away your domination against left handers taken away. Jadeja as a bowler has incredibly worked well with Ashwin. Different type of bowlers complementing each other. I expect Ashwin to be around for another couple of years at the most. Jaddu may be 2 years given his injuries.

So we have some time to groom. Jadeja is replaceable as India has become like bangladesh full of left arm ortodox bowlers. Ashwin may never be replaced. 

 

Jadeja as AR would be very tough to replace. Specially his overseas contributions.

 

We'll be fine at home even after Ashwin-Jaddu. Axar-Kuldeep-Sundar are good enough and the deadwood at the top would be replaced too.

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Jadeja as AR would be very tough to replace. Specially his overseas contributions.

 

We'll be fine at home even after Ashwin-Jaddu. Axar-Kuldeep-Sundar are good enough and the deadwood at the top would be replaced too.

 

Referring to home. I don't think anyone has so far displayed the guile, variations to sustain for a long time. Kuldeep has a lot of talent. We just need to wait and see his sustainability.  He is alright as he is an unique type of bowler. Axar can more or less replicate what Jaddu does. Infact against England that is what Axar did. But Ashwin vs lefties that is something very very hard to replicate by any bowler in the world not just India.

[Lord]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Referring to home. I don't think anyone has so far displayed the guile, variations to sustain for a long time. Kuldeep has a lot of talent. We just need to wait and see his sustainability.  He is alright as he is an unique type of bowler. Axar can more or less replicate what Jaddu does. Infact against England that is what Axar did. But Ashwin vs lefties that is something very very hard to replicate by any bowler in the world not just India.

 

Kuldeep+ Sundar would be fine in India for lefties. Not as good as Ashwin ofcourse but enough,

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Kuldeep+ Sundar would be fine in India for lefties. Not as good as Ashwin ofcourse but enough,

 

Sundar is a better LOI bowler than a long format bowler as he fires it in from height. In Indian conditions you have to slow it up a bit by tossing it so that it grips and turns. Kuldeep is the only one who does that. I don't know much about domestic bowlers except Saurabh. He has this classical action and beats players in flight.  Not a dart merchant.

 

 

[Lord]

Just now, vvvslaxman said:

 

Sundar is a better LOI bowler than a long format bowler as he fires it in from height. In Indian conditions you have to slow it up a bit by tossing it so that it grips and turns. Kuldeep is the only one who does that. I don't know much about domestic bowlers except Saurabh. He has this classical action and beats players in flight.  Not a dart merchant.

 

 

 

Who told you that? Both Jaddu and Axar bowl quick and are successful here while Ojha used to struggle.

 

Quick bowlers will work if they are accurate as turn will be there on Indian pitches anyway.

 

Kuldeep can work even on flatter surfaces like Dharamsala 2017

[Lord]

Saurabh Kumar looks like Nadeem,Ojha types who failed 

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, Lord said:

 

Who told you that? Both Jaddu and Axar bowl quick and are successful here while Ojha used to struggle.

 

Quick bowlers will work if they are accurate as turn will be there on Indian pitches anyway.

 

Kuldeep can work even on flatter surfaces like Dharamsala 2017

Jadeja is a bit of both. He is not an exclusive darter. Case in point Labu's dismissal. He bowled all the balls at 94 except that one ball which was delivered at 84. Every time he slowed it up he turned it. Axar operated mostly at 95 kph.  That is not a sustainable wicket taking option.

[R!TTER]

No one will replace them, Kuldeep can potentially be the best spinner post their retirement for maybe half a decade or so but we need 2 of such kinda bowlers! Axar is increasingly looking like a bad wicket specialist & to think people were comparing him against Kuldeep, did no one saw the first test in Bangla 

Edited February 17, 2023 by R!TTER

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Jadeja is a bit of both. He is not an exclusive darter. Case in point Labu's dismissal. He bowled all the balls at 94 except that one ball which was delivered at 84. Every time he slowed it up he turned it. Axar operated mostly at 95 kph.  That is not a sustainable wicket taking option.

 

Jaddu when he started was even quicker. Axar's pace worked v Eng. On turners it's great advantage as batsmen have no time to adjust.

 

Main thing is variation of pace. Just slow or just fast won't work.

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

Saurabh Kumar looks like Nadeem,Ojha types who failed 

 

Ojha was a chucker. So he was weeded out. Nadeem is pedestrian.  If Saurabh doesn't cut it our only other option is Mulani. REst are old guys playing for plate teams. We don't really have any prodigies. For LOI we have Bishnoi. But for Tests Kuldeep is the sole long term option alongwith Axar.  One thing is sure Ashwin will definitely impart some knowledge to Sundar which will make him a better bowler

[R!TTER]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

 

Jaddu when he started was even quicker. Axar's pace worked v Eng. On turners it's great advantage as batsmen have no time to adjust.

 

Main thing is variation of pace. Just slow or just fast won't work.

Jadeja is also more accurate, he's the McGrath of spin bowling whilst Ashwin can be considered like a Warne.

[vvvslaxman]

Bottomline is India better kick out the oldies at the top order. One of the main reason Ashwin/Jadeja batting is needed because of these clownss

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Ojha was a chucker. So he was weeded out. Nadeem is pedestrian.  If Saurabh doesn't cut it our only other option is Mulani. REst are old guys playing for plate teams. We don't really have any prodigies. For LOI we have Bishnoi. But for Tests Kuldeep is the sole long term option alongwith Axar.  One thing is sure Ashwin will definitely impart some knowledge to Sundar which will make him a better bowler

 

I'm talking about their pace. Nadeem was beast in FC. Ojha even before being dropped was mediocre. One of the big reasons we lost v Eng 2012.

 

Saurabh from the above video has variation of pace so lets see. However looks very unfit lol.

 

Bishnoi can work on Indian turners if he develops a decent leg break (would never spin big but just enough)

 

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

 

I'm talking about their pace. Nadeem was beast in FC. Ojha even before being dropped was mediocre. One of the big reasons we lost v Eng 2012.

 

Saurabh from the above video has variation of pace so lets see. However looks very unfit lol.

 

Bishnoi can work on Indian turners if he develops a decent leg break (would never spin big but just enough)

 

 

My thoughts as well. Looks like a journey man. Not a fit and agile guy.  I liked that guy Vicky ostwal from under-19 who has a classical action. so far average beginning to his first class career.

[Sandz]

Based on senior retirement track record, Ashwin easily has 4 more years in him and Jadeja 6

[Lord]

1 minute ago, Sandz said:

Based on senior retirement track record, Ashwin easily has 4 more years in him and Jadeja 6

hopefully, both should solely play Tests after this years WC. Ashwin anyway won't play there