Duleep Trophy 2023

[BacktoCricaddict]

Central Zone. 2nd innings, had no hope, but there was just a small spark. Who provided it?  Ah yes .... Rinku Singh.

[singhvivek141]

7 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I don't think so, batting avg and bowling avg in FC are most leading. A guy like Vihari was avg 60 but he was not cut out in international cricket.

 

Abinav Mukund was unable to put bat on ball.He was averaging nearly 60 in  FC. Vinay Kumar is by far best fast bowler in FC in terms of avg and achievements.

 

You have always pick based on potential and reward few for exception FC performance.Playing a season or two should be mandatory for endurance.

 

Sarfraz looked overmatched facing fast bowlers in IPL that must have played an important role along with his fitness.

That's why it's important to see matches in live and then judge, something which our selectors fail to do.

 

Vihari was not a brightly talented, but he sure does had mental toughness. His inns in Australia alongside Ashwin is a living proof of that, our other superstars would have chickened out on the pertext of injury, but he stood there and fought till the end.

I am sure he would have outperformed Pujara if wasn't choosen selectively only for the tough overseas tours...some days he was no 6, someday he was a sacrificial lamb in opening.

 

I can give Abhinav Mukund benefit of doubt as he played in England at an age of 20, very less opening batters in history of cricket have succeeded in that age in England.

[putrevus]

Just now, singhvivek141 said:

That's why it's important to see matches in live and then judge, something which our selectors fail to do.

 

Vihari was not a brightly talented, but he sure does had mental toughness. His inns in Australia alongside Ashwin is a living proof of that, our other superstars would have chickened out on the pertext of injury, but he stood there and fought till the end.

I am sure he would have outperformed Pujara if wasn't choosen selectively only for the tough overseas tours...some days he was no 6, someday he was a sacrificial lamb in opening.

 

I can give Abhinav Mukund benefit of doubt as he played in England at an age of 20, very less opening batters in history of cricket have succeeded in that age in England.

Vihari got rewarded for his FC achievements rightly so but Vihari was never going to be your core player for decade. We can deride Pujara all we want but he is class above Vihari. IMO the more Vihari would play, the more he would be found out.

 

There has been only one super star batsman in Indian cricket which is Kohli in last decade plus.Anyone with Kohli's resume was not expected to fall off the cliff like he did at his age.I have never seen that happen in history of cricket.

 

Rohit Sharma as a talent  is better than all the current batsmen except Gill. Rohit's ability to handle fast bowling is very rare in Indian cricket just like Gill.

 

Rohit had lot of other issues but you could clearly see the talent he had when he batted, that is why he got so many chances.

 

Mukund did get his chances in 2017 but failed against Australia. I am not blaming Mukund but this notion that India is abundant with talent is something I don't agree with the sentiment.

 

Who are the batting talents which have been lost since 2008-2017 , when Kohli and Rohit came to forefront.

[singhvivek141]

3 hours ago, putrevus said:

Vihari got rewarded for his FC achievements rightly so but Vihari was never going to be your core player for decade. We can deride Pujara all we want but he is class above Vihari. IMO the more Vihari would play, the more he would be found out.

 

There has been only one super star batsman in Indian cricket which is Kohli in last decade plus.Anyone with Kohli's resume was not expected to fall off the cliff like he did at his age.I have never seen that happen in history of cricket.

 

Rohit Sharma as a talent  is better than all the current batsmen except Gill. Rohit's ability to handle fast bowling is very rare in Indian cricket just like Gill.

 

Rohit had lot of other issues but you could clearly see the talent he had when he batted, that is why he got so many chances.

 

Mukund did get his chances in 2017 but failed against Australia. I am not blaming Mukund but this notion that India is abundant with talent is something I don't agree with the sentiment.

 

Who are the batting talents which have been lost since 2008-2017 , when Kohli and Rohit came to forefront.

Karun Nair ? Baba Indrajith ?

We also delayed Gill when he should have debuted 2-3 years ago.

 

Vihari was playing a specific role, someone who can bowl a bit if needed. He was floated up and down as per the team's need and to be fair that's not the right approach to use a player who is always a stand by in overseas. You treat Kohli also in that manner and even he will struggle to get going (the way he was struggling in England in 2014, any other player would have thrown out but Kohli was persisted).

 

Ofcourse, I am not saying Viharilari is better than Kohli. But truth is we won't know what he could have done. He may have survived or perished, but he was given toughest tours to prove himself, while the likes of Rohit and Pujara got the cushion of home advantage.

[wazza]

4 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Karun Nair ? Baba Indrajith ?

We also delayed Gill when he should have debuted 2-3 years ago.

 

Vihari was playing a specific role, someone who can bowl a bit if needed. He was floated up and down as per the team's need and to be fair that's not the right approach to use a player who is always a stand by in overseas. You treat Kohli also in that manner and even he will struggle to get going (the way he was struggling in England in 2014, any other player would have thrown out but Kohli was persisted).

 

Ofcourse, I am not saying Viharilari is better than Kohli. But truth is we won't know what he could have done. He may have survived or perished, but he was given toughest tours to prove himself, while the likes of Rohit and Pujara got the cushion of home advantage.

Give vihari enough chances and even he will redeem himself. Let's not forget how many chances kohli got before he became a great player. 

[vvvslaxman]

9 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Karun Nair ? Baba Indrajith ?

We also delayed Gill when he should have debuted 2-3 years ago.

 

Vihari was playing a specific role, someone who can bowl a bit if needed. He was floated up and down as per the team's need and to be fair that's not the right approach to use a player who is always a stand by in overseas. You treat Kohli also in that manner and even he will struggle to get going (the way he was struggling in England in 2014, any other player would have thrown out but Kohli was persisted).

 

Ofcourse, I am not saying Viharilari is better than Kohli. But truth is we won't know what he could have done. He may have survived or perished, but he was given toughest tours to prove himself, while the likes of Rohit and Pujara got the cushion of home advantage.

 

Laxman's initial career was mediocre thanks to too much shuffling. He averaged just 24 in his first 16 tests. After 2000 he averaged 49.4.  Correct use of batsman can be a lottery. Sehwag opening the innings was a pure lottery. Nobody could have guessed it.  Having said that genuine talent cannot be contained. Hope Jaiswal realizes his full potential but he needs backing when he is inconsistent at the start.

[deepdynamo]

We didn't try enough batsman in 2010-2023 period and got stuck with the same kind of batsman for too long. Also notice lack of left hand batsman in the mix.

 

>40 tests

Kohli (109)

Pujara (103)
Rahane (83)

Rahul (47)

Vijay (61)
Rohit (50)

 

<40 tests
Mukund ( 7)
Dhawan (34)
Nair (6)
Vihari (16)
Shaw (5)
Mayank (21)
Gill (16)
Iyer(10)




 

[putrevus]

18 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Karun Nair ? Baba Indrajith ?

We also delayed Gill when he should have debuted 2-3 years ago.

 

Vihari was playing a specific role, someone who can bowl a bit if needed. He was floated up and down as per the team's need and to be fair that's not the right approach to use a player who is always a stand by in overseas. You treat Kohli also in that manner and even he will struggle to get going (the way he was struggling in England in 2014, any other player would have thrown out but Kohli was persisted).

 

Ofcourse, I am not saying Viharilari is better than Kohli. But truth is we won't know what he could have done. He may have survived or perished, but he was given toughest tours to prove himself, while the likes of Rohit and Pujara got the cushion of home advantage.

Your answer itself shows how thin batting stocks were for decade.

 

Vijay was another guy who along with Pujara changed the attitude of Indian batting, his point was survival first rather than scoring.

 

Hope this generation of batsmen play without fear of failure.

[vvvslaxman]

5 hours ago, deepdynamo said:

We didn't try enough batsman in 2010-2023 period and got stuck with the same kind of batsman for too long. Also notice lack of left hand batsman in the mix.

 

>40 tests

Kohli (109)

Pujara (103)
Rahane (83)

Rahul (47)

Vijay (61)
Rohit (50)

 

<40 tests
Mukund ( 7)
Dhawan (34)
Nair (6)
Vihari (16)
Shaw (5)
Mayank (21)
Gill (16)
Iyer(10)




 

 

 

Yes. We didn't give enough opportunities. Gabba test proved only way we can unearth potential accidentally is when someone is injured. Gill was in good touch in all the tour games in NZ. But Shaw was preferred.  KL Rahul has been getting endless chances. Kohli/Rahane/Pujara have been failing for 3 years. Still in the thick of things. one guy is even vice captain. They give one or two chacnes and expect them to do well right away.

[singhvivek141]

36 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Your answer itself shows how thin batting stocks were for decade.

 

Vijay was another guy who along with Pujara changed the attitude of Indian batting, his point was survival first rather than scoring.

 

Hope this generation of batsmen play without fear of failure.

Not exactly, Priyanka Panchal was one who piled up runs in domestics, never got a run and remain an A team passenger. Now he is 33-34 with no hopes of making big.

 

Abhimanyu Easwaran is 27-28, one of the performers in opening slot when we were playing Dhawan and KLR who have a horrendous performances overseas.

 

Fact remains, some batters got unfair advantage...from 2020 onwards our no 3-4-5 is batting like a tailender..that's 3 years of non performance and still we didn't inject any new face in the team.

[putrevus]

53 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Not exactly, Priyanka Panchal was one who piled up runs in domestics, never got a run and remain an A team passenger. Now he is 33-34 with no hopes of making big.

 

Abhimanyu Easwaran is 27-28, one of the performers in opening slot when we were playing Dhawan and KLR who have a horrendous performances overseas.

 

Fact remains, some batters got unfair advantage...from 2020 onwards our no 3-4-5 is batting like a tailender..that's 3 years of non performance and still we didn't inject any new face in the team.

Sorry they are not even in international class., I have seen their batting they are cheaper version of Vihari.

 

Pujara and Rohit Sharma will churn runs in India better than any other local batsmen against any team in India. Even now Pujara will avg 60 in Ranji today.

 

Since 2020 the decline of Kohli started, he was lone ranger for five or six years. They gave chance to Iyer but he was injured so Rahane came back, if yer was there Rahane  would have been done.

[wazza]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

Sorry they are not even in international class., I have seen their batting they are cheaper version of Vihari.

 

Pujara and Rohit Sharma will churn runs in India better than any other local batsmen against any team in India. Even now Pujara will avg 60 in Ranji today.

 

Since 2020 the decline of Kohli started, he was lone ranger for five or six years. They gave chance to Iyer but he was injured so Rahane came back, if yer was there Rahane  would have been done.

Yea bo. Not currently pujara and definitely kohli. Even piyush chawla would eat him alive like rajma. 

 

Sorry just no.

Ghujara will flop hard.

Rahan flukes some runs here and there sure. On nay pitch with a bit of bite he fails

 

[Sooda]

21 hours ago, putrevus said:

Sorry they are not even in international class., I have seen their batting they are cheaper version of Vihari.

 

Pujara and Rohit Sharma will churn runs in India better than any other local batsmen against any team in India. Even now Pujara will avg 60 in Ranji today.

 

Since 2020 the decline of Kohli started, he was lone ranger for five or six years. They gave chance to Iyer but he was injured so Rahane came back, if yer was there Rahane  would have been done.

 

Even if you are a good enough judge to say that, they have performed in A team and domestic and have earned a shot at test cricket a while ago instead of us hanging on to underperforming players. It is complicated by the fact that both are openers but they could have batted at 3 instead of Pujara, or even tried at 5 thought it is well outside their zone

 

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, Sooda said:

 

Even if you are a good enough judge to say that, they have performed in A team and domestic and have earned a shot at test cricket a while ago instead of us hanging on to underperforming players. It is complicated by the fact that both are openers but they could have batted at 3 instead of Pujara, or even tried at 5 thought it is well outside their zone

 

You can demean selectors all you want but a true talented player will burst thru the system. Sarfraz ability to handle fast bowling in IPL showed Ranji stats don't matter much. Mind you I still want Sarfraz to be tried in tests

 

Pujara is better batsman than all those in domestic cricket and selectors knew batting stocks were thin . Rahane leap frogging everyone for finals says something about batting talent in the country.

 

What did Gill do in finals?He is the best we got in terms of talent.

 

 

Pujara and Rahane are done, they had enough chances, they should have never been recalled afer SA series.

 

But we are talking batting stock between 2008-2017. 

 

[vvvslaxman]

52 minutes ago, putrevus said:

You can demean selectors all you want but a true talented player will burst thru the system. Sarfraz ability to handle fast bowling in IPL showed Ranji stats don't matter much. Mind you I still want Sarfraz to be tried in tests

 

Pujara is better batsman than all those in domestic cricket and selectors knew batting stocks were thin . Rahane leap frogging everyone for finals says something about batting talent in the country.

 

What did Gill do in finals?He is the best we got in terms of talent.

 

 

Pujara and Rahane are done, they had enough chances, they should have never been recalled afer SA series.

 

But we are talking batting stock between 2008-2017. 

 

 

Pujara/Dravid/Laxman/WV Raman/Lamba all were picked based on domestic stats.  Some click Some may not. But you should give them chance. If you don't prefer Ranji Trophy then discontinue that. Rahane was selected right after one innings at Wankhede in the IPL. If he had not played he would not have been in the picture. I still think it is a regressive move. Just because they make a regressive move doesn't mean it is right. We all saw what these trimurthis did for the last 3 years.  Fail with noobs rather than using their failure as ane xcuse to go back to the tried and trusted failures. We have done that before burnt our fingers. RP singh, Murali vijay based on their past record we went back and suffered. We are doing the same thing now.

[putrevus]

4 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Pujara/Dravid/Laxman/WV Raman/Lamba all were picked based on domestic stats.  Some click Some may not. But you should give them chance. If you don't prefer Ranji Trophy then discontinue that. Rahane was selected right after one innings at Wankhede in the IPL. If he had not played he would not have been in the picture. I still think it is a regressive move. Just because they make a regressive move doesn't mean it is right. We all saw what these trimurthis did for the last 3 years.  Fail with noobs rather than using their failure as ane xcuse to go back to the tried and trusted failures. We have done that before burnt our fingers. RP singh, Murali vijay based on their past record we went back and suffered. We are doing the same thing now.

No Pujara was always touted as next batting talent.So was laxman, Laxman made a comeback based on his historic Raji season where he scored 1300 and then started playing only in middle order.No one is saying discontinue Ranji.

 

Why are people not making hue and cry about injustice done to Vinay Kumar.Is there a better fast bowler in Ranji's than him???

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

No Pujara was always touted as next batting talent.So was laxman, Laxman made a comeback based on his historic Raji season where he scored 1300 and then started playing only in middle order.No one is saying discontinue Ranji.

 

Why are people not making hue and cry about injustice done to Vinay Kumar.Is there a better fast bowler in Ranji's than him???

 

Vinay kumar had his shot. Failed. Sarfraz has not. Sarfraz was always treated as a prodigy from school days. He was one of the key performer in the under-19 world cup better than Pant/Kishan.  He did well in domestic. INdia is at a stage where 3 MO batsmen have been performing poorly for 3 years. So you should give him a shot instead of playing SKY who has done zilch in domestic. Even in ODIs he got three ducks in a row. Terrible record. He is just  a T20 merchant. That is very unfair on Sarfraz.

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Vinay kumar had his shot. Failed. Sarfraz has not. Sarfraz was always treated as a prodigy from school days. He was one of the key performer in the under-19 world cup better than Pant/Kishan.  He did well in domestic. INdia is at a stage where 3 MO batsmen have been performing poorly for 3 years. So you should give him a shot instead of playing SKY who has done zilch in domestic. Even in ODIs he got three ducks in a row. Terrible record. He is just  a T20 merchant. That is very unfair on Sarfraz.

Vinay Kumar played one test, how is it fair shot?

 

Sarfraz fitness has issues and as we saw he was found out by fast bowling IPL itself. I would give a guy like SKY a chance again even now over Sarfraz any day.

 

BTW, I am not saying Sarfraz should not be picked in place of Rahane.Rahne is done, there is no need to play Rahane now.Sarfraz should have been playing the first test against WI.

 

My point was about Ranji trophy stats.

Edited July 10, 2023 by putrevus

[vvvslaxman]

BD series was a perfect series where Sarfraz could have been introduced. or Eswaran or any other guys. Instead we went GUjara/Kohli both looked out of depth at Mirpur. Gujara even had a couple of lives during his short stay before eventually getting out.  Kohli on the other hand had no clue which way ball was turning.  Gillw as another flop show on a turning track.

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, putrevus said:

Vinay Kumar played one test, how is it fair shot?

 

Sarfraz fitness is a issue and as we saw he was found out by fast bowling IPL itself. I would give a guy like SKY a chance again even now over Sarfraz any day.

 

IPL is fo T20 format where you have to score runs against all types of bowling.  You should test him in longer format not IPL. If IPL is the gauge Pujara should never ever play Tests again.