Hardik Pandya vs Irfan Pathan

[Majestic]

8 hours ago, raki05 said:

But Maxi has already won a wc in aus and t20 wc in Asia. Lets see wht Pandya does.

Winning is a function of team, not individuals. Maxi has not won any IPL trophy, Pandya has won two. Santner has won IPL trophies but Gayle and de Villiers haven't.

[Majestic]

6 hours ago, Suhaan said:

Yuvi too was a capable AR

He was a capable AR for 3-4 years but won't really categorise him in AR category. Same as Tendulkar who was capable AR in 90s for few years and ended with 150 wickets.

 

Jayasuriya and Afridi  are genuine AR as they got 300+ wickets in contrast.

[vvvslaxman]

We are confused between T20 and ODI. Pandya is serviceable in T20 not without issues. He hardly does the finishing anymore. YOu get 1 or 2 overs out of him.  IN ODIs he has bowled 5 overs per match on an average this year. Last year just under 6. Year before bowled just 4 overs in 3 matches he played. Bumrah was toiling on those flat tracks where Australia was scoring 350, 370. 300 but our "all rounder" just bowled 4 overs. Even as a captain in T20 he was particular about having more bowlers as much as 7. That idea is to cover for him. IPL knock out stages he didn't bowl at ll. He is only bowling for India to keep his spot safe. Given a choice he will not bowl even one over.  Not saying he should be dropped as his competitions like VIjay Shankar/Dube/Venky lack bowling skills. If he wants to play as an all rounder he should be 100% committed and do justice to both roles. Not 50% there 50% here which is what Jaddu has been doing for 14 years.

[jalebi_bhai]

59 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Winning is a function of team, not individuals. Maxi has not won any IPL trophy, Pandya has won two. Santner has won IPL trophies but Gayle and de Villiers haven't.

Maxwell was part of MI in 2013. Didn't play much, but he was part of the winning squad.

[R!TTER]

55 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

If he wants to play as an all rounder he should be 100% committed and do justice to both roles. Not 50% there 50% here which is what Jaddu has been doing for 14 years.

Well Jadeja's statistically the best "bowling" A/R in the last 30+ years, in tests, & arguably among the top 5 ever so there's that.

[vvvslaxman]

17 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Well Jadeja's statistically the best "bowling" A/R in the last 30+ years, in tests, & arguably among the top 5 ever so there's that.

 

Not talking about Tests. He is gun there. But in LOIs he bowls the safest overs and plays once in a blue moon innings while chasing smallish totals. Can't bank on him to win matches either with bowling or batting.

[raki05]

10 hours ago, Majestic said:

Winning is a function of team, not individuals. Maxi has not won any IPL trophy, Pandya has won two. Santner has won IPL trophies but Gayle and de Villiers haven't.

Ipl trophy doesnt matter icc trophy does. 

[Majestic]

2 hours ago, raki05 said:

Ipl trophy doesnt matter icc trophy does. 

Flintoff hasn't won ICC trophy, Stokes has. Who is better in ODIs?

[raki05]

22 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Flintoff hasn't won ICC trophy, Stokes has. Who is better in ODIs?

Stokes played once in lifetime inning in wc final so i would take him.Most of the time Stokes give a miss to bilateral so its not apple to apple comparison as an overall odi batter.

[Majestic]

1 hour ago, raki05 said:

Stokes played once in lifetime inning in wc final so i would take him.Most of the time Stokes give a miss to bilateral so its not apple to apple comparison as an overall odi batter.

An odd chance here and there and Stokes won't have won that game. Flintoff was miles better as a bowler and has multiple hundreds with bat too in ODIs.

[raki05]

6 hours ago, Majestic said:

An odd chance here and there and Stokes won't have won that game. Flintoff was miles better as a bowler and has multiple hundreds with bat too in ODIs.

BTW pandya is not in either of categories. You are giving example of great allrounders to present Pandya case, thing is he doesnt have a single hundred in 7 years of career or domination even in biletrals. Even maxi has dominated odis and t20 for 1-2 years and won many matches for aus. Forget maxi Faulkner had more memorable odi performance than Pandya and here you are Bringing in Stoke, Flintoff to present Pandya case. Pandya was, is and most probably will end up as bits and pieces player in Odi same as what Rahul is for batsmen.

[Suhaan]

7 hours ago, Majestic said:

An odd chance here and there and Stokes won't have won that game. Flintoff was miles better as a bowler and has multiple hundreds with bat too in ODIs.

Was instrumental for England in lifting first major trophy in years in 2006/7 V B series

[Majestic]

1 hour ago, raki05 said:

BTW pandya is not in either of categories. You are giving example of great allrounders to present Pandya case, thing is he doesnt have a single hundred in 7 years of career or domination even in biletrals. Even maxi has dominated odis and t20 for 1-2 years and won many matches for aus. Forget maxi Faulkner had more memorable odi performance than Pandya and here you are Bringing in Stoke, Flintoff to present Pandya case. Pandya was, is and most probably will end up as bits and pieces player in Odi same as what Rahul is for batsmen.

Flintoff and Stokes are just two examples here to prove that winning depends on team and not individuals.

 

Pandya is doing a fine job in LOIs and although it is true that he hasn't taken his batting to a next level but he is good enough to walk into any LOI team as of today including England.

[raki05]

1 hour ago, Majestic said:

Flintoff and Stokes are just two examples here to prove that winning depends on team and not individuals.

 

Pandya is doing a fine job in LOIs and although it is true that he hasn't taken his batting to a next level but he is good enough to walk into any LOI team as of today including England.

Let me tell you other than probably bd , afg and sl every other ssociate nation has bits and pieces allrounder like Pandya. Even in recently concluded t20 series in Netherland Adar and Mcarthy 2 were playing for them who if not better are in same mould of Pandya.  So no other than teams which i mentioned not even associate nation would crave for tuk tuk alrounder like Pandya who doesn’t even complete his quota in t20.

[Majestic]

58 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Let me tell you other than probably bd , afg and sl every other ssociate nation has bits and pieces allrounder like Pandya. Even in recently concluded t20 series in Netherland Adar and Mcarthy 2 were playing for them who if not better are in same mould of Pandya.  So no other than teams which i mentioned not even associate nation would crave for tuk tuk alrounder like Pandya who doesn’t even complete his quota in t20.

Bring the stats of ODI all rounders and compare with Pandya from this era.

 

What are the stats of

 

Glenn Maxwell

Marcus Stoinis

Sam Curran

Dan Christian

Dan Sams

Dan Morris

Dan phelulkwayo

Dan Agar

Dan McCarthy

 

And so on?

[Majestic]

13 hours ago, raki05 said:

Stokes played once in lifetime inning in wc final so i would take him.Most of the time Stokes give a miss to bilateral so its not apple to apple comparison as an overall odi batter.

Also, here you are okay with Stokes giving a miss to bilaterals but if Pandya is not bowling full quota of overs because he I just being more cautious with his fitness, you are having problem? That's basically a case of hypocrisy with our own players.

 

If Goras like Stokes or Smith missing bilaterals is okay then so should be the case with our players too or atleast if they don't bowl full quota. It is simply not necessary for a 6th bowler to bowl 10 overs. If he is bowling 6 overs on average, that's good enough. It means he is probably covering a few overs of one of the main four bowlers too.

[Majestic]

A series decider vs England. Although Pant took away the credit but the game was setup by Pandya with bowl and then also when he came to bat, he looked pretty comfortable right from start. Pandya was player of series here.

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/india-in-england-2022-1276893/england-vs-india-3rd-odi-1276909/full-scorecard

[raki05]

13 hours ago, Majestic said:

Also, here you are okay with Stokes giving a miss to bilaterals but if Pandya is not bowling full quota of overs because he I just being more cautious with his fitness, you are having problem? That's basically a case of hypocrisy with our own players.

 

If Goras like Stokes or Smith missing bilaterals is okay then so should be the case with our players too or atleast if they don't bowl full quota. It is simply not necessary for a 6th bowler to bowl 10 overs. If he is bowling 6 overs on average, that's good enough. It means he is probably covering a few overs of one of the main four bowlers too.

If they are not fit they dont play. They just dont stick around and then domt bowl. Stokes take a break from biletral as he prioritises were test over useless biletral odi and still he played once in lifetime inning to won a  wc  for eng thats what matter to eng same goes with Smith he performed in 2015 wc and won aus a wc  he also prioritise icc tourney and test over useless biletral . BTW you kNow where pandya priorities are, if him being not in the reckoning of being next captain he would have given * about odi wc , his priorities are ipl and to the extent t20 and i think he should stick to those.

[raki05]

14 hours ago, Majestic said:

Bring the stats of ODI all rounders and compare with Pandya from this era.

 

What are the stats of

 

Glenn Maxwell

Marcus Stoinis

Sam Curran

Dan Christian

Dan Sams

Dan Morris

Dan phelulkwayo

Dan Agar

Dan McCarthy

 

And so on?

Be my guest to pull out their stats and see how much competition they have in their own team for allrounder spot. BTW Pandya cant replace most of these players on these respective teams. Heck even sam curran won a t20 wc for his team.

[raki05]

13 hours ago, Majestic said:

A series decider vs England. Although Pant took away the credit but the game was setup by Pandya with bowl and then also when he came to bat, he looked pretty comfortable right from start. Pandya was player of series here.

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/india-in-england-2022-1276893/england-vs-india-3rd-odi-1276909/full-scorecard

Lets see what he does in his 4th icc wc (2 t20 and 1 wc already played) . We have many biletral bullies but lets see his performance in 23 wc where team play their premier players.