wobblydoggy Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 In the past we have seen India either deliver featherbed pitches that play flat until day five so that it is a batting contest. Or create pitches that turn from day one to support what has been traditionally your strength, the spinning turning ball. Given that the English batters swept to glory in the first test, what do you think we'll see over the rest of the series? Link to comment
Vickydev Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Doesn't look too good for you guys..literally. We'll prepare a pitch so dusty that it'll get in your eyes when you go down to play your cute little sweep shots. SRT100, LordPrabhzy, Number and 5 others 8 Link to comment
Nikhil_cric Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 The real issue is that normal spinning pitches like the 1st Chennai Test in 2021 and the 1st Test here decisively favoured the team batting first. The 4th innings here had turn of 5.2 degrees on average compared to the relatively modest 4, 3.7 and 4.2 degrees in the first 3 innings. The tough pitches in India are not so much rank turners as they are pitches with quick turn and uneven bounce. So yeah, we may see that. While not ideal, they kinda take toss out of the equation somewhat wobblydoggy 1 Link to comment
wobblydoggy Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 38 minutes ago, Vickydev said: Doesn't look too good for you guys..literally. We'll prepare a pitch so dusty that it'll get in your eyes when you go down to play your cute little sweep shots. Googles are allowed Link to comment
R!TTER Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 48 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said: The real issue is that normal spinning pitches like the 1st Chennai Test in 2021 and the 1st Test here decisively favoured the team batting first. No the real issue is we don't have batters who can match Eng/Oz batting first when they pout up big totals, or bowlers who can restrict them to under 500 like we used to many times in the past. Host country India Start of match date between 1 Jan 2000 and 31 Dec 2011 Innings in match 1st innings or 2nd innings or 3rd innings Team runs greater than or equal to 400 Totals in terms of batting team Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 2 Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 15 of 15 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu By opposition team Team Span Mat Won Lost Tied Draw W/L Ave RPO Inns HS LS South Africa 2000-2010 5 3 0 0 2 - 61.45 3.02 5 558 479 v India India 2000-2002 3 2 0 0 1 - 96.29 3.38 3 609 - v Zimbabwe Zimbabwe 2000-2000 2 0 1 0 1 0.000 61.66 2.81 2 503 - v India Australia 2001-2010 6 1 3 0 2 0.333 47.20 3.20 6 577 428 v India India 2001-2010 7 6 0 0 1 - 55.95 3.54 7 657 405 v Australia India 2001-2008 2 1 0 0 1 - 46.10 2.81 2 469 453 v England England 2001-2006 2 1 0 0 1 - 40.35 2.90 2 407 400 v India India 2002-2011 4 2 0 0 2 - 60.02 3.34 4 631 457 v West Indies West Indies 2002-2011 3 0 1 0 2 0.000 51.66 3.21 3 590 463 v India India 2003-2010 5 1 0 0 4 - 56.95 3.09 5 566 424 v New Zealand New Zealand 2003-2010 3 0 0 0 3 0.000 64.04 3.07 3 630 459 v India India 2004-2010 4 2 0 0 2 - 59.63 3.62 4 643 411 v South Africa India 2005-2007 5 1 1 0 3 1.000 55.94 3.80 6 626 407 v Pakistan Pakistan 2005-2007 4 1 0 0 3 - 52.79 3.26 4 570 456 v India India 2009-2009 3 2 0 0 1 - 66.84 4.00 4 726 426 v Sri Lanka The 2k decade's above, the next 10+ years here - Host country India Start of match date between 1 Jan 2012 and 31 Dec 2024 Innings in match 1st innings or 2nd innings or 3rd innings Team runs greater than or equal to 400 Totals in terms of batting team Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 2 Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 9 of 9 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu By opposition team Team Span Mat Won Lost Tied Draw W/L Ave RPO Inns HS LS India 2012-2016 2 2 0 0 0 - 66.33 3.27 2 557 438 v New Zealand England 2012-2024 8 4 3 0 1 1.333 46.92 3.17 8 578 400 v India India 2012-2024 7 5 1 0 1 5.000 57.03 3.41 7 759 417 v England India 2013-2023 6 4 0 0 2 - 54.27 3.24 6 603 400 v Australia Australia 2013-2023 3 0 1 0 2 0.000 44.63 2.99 3 480 408 v India India 2013-2018 3 3 0 0 0 - 55.06 4.12 3 649 453 v West Indies India 2017-2019 2 2 0 0 0 - 98.33 4.21 2 687 - v Bangladesh India 2017-2022 3 2 0 0 1 - 81.90 3.96 3 610 - v Sri Lanka India 2019-2019 3 3 0 0 0 - 76.19 3.91 3 601 - v South Africa This shows that these days we can't win unless the opposition collapses/posts under par score in their first innings! Link to comment
Nikhil_cric Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 7 minutes ago, R!TTER said: No the real issue is we don't have batters who can match Eng/Oz batting first when they pout up big totals, or bowlers who can restrict them to under 500 like we used to many times in the past. Host country India Start of match date between 1 Jan 2000 and 31 Dec 2011 Innings in match 1st innings or 2nd innings or 3rd innings Team runs greater than or equal to 400 Totals in terms of batting team Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 2 Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 15 of 15 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu By opposition team Team Span Mat Won Lost Tied Draw W/L Ave RPO Inns HS LS South Africa 2000-2010 5 3 0 0 2 - 61.45 3.02 5 558 479 v India India 2000-2002 3 2 0 0 1 - 96.29 3.38 3 609 - v Zimbabwe Zimbabwe 2000-2000 2 0 1 0 1 0.000 61.66 2.81 2 503 - v India Australia 2001-2010 6 1 3 0 2 0.333 47.20 3.20 6 577 428 v India India 2001-2010 7 6 0 0 1 - 55.95 3.54 7 657 405 v Australia India 2001-2008 2 1 0 0 1 - 46.10 2.81 2 469 453 v England England 2001-2006 2 1 0 0 1 - 40.35 2.90 2 407 400 v India India 2002-2011 4 2 0 0 2 - 60.02 3.34 4 631 457 v West Indies West Indies 2002-2011 3 0 1 0 2 0.000 51.66 3.21 3 590 463 v India India 2003-2010 5 1 0 0 4 - 56.95 3.09 5 566 424 v New Zealand New Zealand 2003-2010 3 0 0 0 3 0.000 64.04 3.07 3 630 459 v India India 2004-2010 4 2 0 0 2 - 59.63 3.62 4 643 411 v South Africa India 2005-2007 5 1 1 0 3 1.000 55.94 3.80 6 626 407 v Pakistan Pakistan 2005-2007 4 1 0 0 3 - 52.79 3.26 4 570 456 v India India 2009-2009 3 2 0 0 1 - 66.84 4.00 4 726 426 v Sri Lanka The 2k decade's above, the next 10+ years here - Host country India Start of match date between 1 Jan 2012 and 31 Dec 2024 Innings in match 1st innings or 2nd innings or 3rd innings Team runs greater than or equal to 400 Totals in terms of batting team Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 2 Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 9 of 9 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu By opposition team Team Span Mat Won Lost Tied Draw W/L Ave RPO Inns HS LS India 2012-2016 2 2 0 0 0 - 66.33 3.27 2 557 438 v New Zealand England 2012-2024 8 4 3 0 1 1.333 46.92 3.17 8 578 400 v India India 2012-2024 7 5 1 0 1 5.000 57.03 3.41 7 759 417 v England India 2013-2023 6 4 0 0 2 - 54.27 3.24 6 603 400 v Australia Australia 2013-2023 3 0 1 0 2 0.000 44.63 2.99 3 480 408 v India India 2013-2018 3 3 0 0 0 - 55.06 4.12 3 649 453 v West Indies India 2017-2019 2 2 0 0 0 - 98.33 4.21 2 687 - v Bangladesh India 2017-2022 3 2 0 0 1 - 81.90 3.96 3 610 - v Sri Lanka India 2019-2019 3 3 0 0 0 - 76.19 3.91 3 601 - v South Africa This shows that these days we can't win unless the opposition collapses/posts under par score in their first innings! No. There was a time when India could post mammoth first innings scores and negate the advantage of opposition batting first. eg. 2016/17 Chennai Test when England scored 447 and we scored 759 in reply. But that doesn't mean there isn't an advantage to batting first on a normal Indian pitch . There is a significant advantage to batting first on normal Indian pitches. Vijy and wobblydoggy 1 1 Link to comment
R!TTER Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 4 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said: No. There was a time when India could post mammoth first innings scores and negate the advantage of opposition batting first. I know, it wasn't just against Eng - we did that consistently since 2006/07 - at least 3-4 times vs Oz, 2-3 times vs SA, couple of times vs Pak, another couple against SL & maybe once or twice vs Eng before 2016 or so. The point I'm making is that our batting has deteriorated massively, but our bowling has also gone down. Especially the pace dept post Shami/Umesh - my biggest worry is the lack of shrewd tactics even at home, it's like we give after some bowlers get hit in a spell or two. The dropped catches are also part of this issue but where are those smart tactics, does no one remember MS packing the off side field 8/1 against Oz at Nagpur 2008 & making Oz crawl for their runs? Why can't we just bowl one side of the wicket & try to squeeze someone like a Pope? For outside off deliveries turning away he really has no option but regular sweep, so mostly in front of square on the legside, the odd cut/square drive or lofted shot down the wicket. Now you might say where's the wickets going to come from - well if the batter is looking to attack constantly at least limit his scoring areas! Link to comment
Nikhil_cric Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 2 minutes ago, R!TTER said: I know, it wasn't just against Eng - we did that consistently since 2006/07 - at least 3-4 times vs Oz, 2-3 times vs SA, couple of times vs Pak, another couple against SL & maybe once or twice vs Eng before 2016 or so. The point I'm making is that our batting has deteriorated massively, but our bowling has also gone down. Especially the pace dept post Shami/Umesh - my biggest worry is the lack of shrewd tactics even at home, it's like we give after some bowlers get hit in a spell or two. The dropped catches are also part of this issue but where are those smart tactics, does no one remember MS packing the off side field 8/1 against Oz at Nagpur 2008 & making Oz crawl for their runs? Why can't we just bowl one side of the wicket & try to squeeze someone like a Pope? For outside off deliveries turning away he really has no option but regular sweep, so mostly in front of square on the legside, the odd cut/square drive or lofted shot down the wicket. Now you might say where's the wickets going to come from - well if the batter is looking to attack constantly at least limit his scoring areas! 2008 was a very long time ago. IPL wasn't so long and we never played a bilateral T20I series of 5 matches those days. We played much more ODI cricket and there were many ODI pitches even then on slow, turning wickets. It was easier to maintain your skills in Tests on slow pitches back then. Much harder when you have to adjust from playing T20's against Afghanistan on belters and a week later you have to bat on Indian Test wickets. The gap is much bigger now with skillsets needed that are vastly different. Nagpur is anyway naturally a slow deck which doesn't allow such exuberant strokeplay. Surfaces like Hyderabad are truer and you have to rig them to make them tough for batting. With the current skillsets of our lineup, we have to rely on batting depth and a spin shootout to beat England. Hyderabad was actually a good pitch. On relatively flatter, good surfaces, nobody can play that risk-reward game better than England in world cricket. That's just a fact that we have to accept. We can't compete with them by playing that style overnight. Look at the World Cup, it's the pitches and conditions that defeated England completely. Against NZ, the slowness of the surface made the big hits too risky to succeed. Against AFG, the swing and spin Against SL - the extra bounce in the surface You have to create conditions that make their high risk approach unviable no matter what. That's where they struggle because they don't low percentage cricket well. They are a high variance side. Within a range of conditions where bounce, seam, swing, spin, unevenness, pace are reasonable. their approach is unbeatable currently. Take them outside of that and they are beatable. Link to comment
R!TTER Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 6 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said: Nagpur is anyway naturally a slow deck which doesn't allow such exuberant strokeplay. Surfaces like Hyderabad are truer and you have to rig them to make them tough for batting. Nagpur's definitely not slow & has red soil, so generally bounces nicely especially at this time of the year. Hyderabad has black(?) soil so it would generally bind better/deteriorate less but this was a much drier surface. 7 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said: Look at the World Cup, it's the pitches and conditions that defeated England completely. And Oz made their own plans to counter/use it more for their benefit, didn't they? Cummins starting bowling short of a length cutters right from that SL game IIRC, he perfected that strategy all the way till the finals. It looked like no one thought Oz would try this on a slow surface against us, are the TM & rest of "brains trust" paid to be stupid? You're telling me there was no plan B to the sweeps/reverse sweeps just like our WC final fiasco? 10 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said: You have to create conditions that make their high risk approach unviable no matter what. The conditions are what they are - how come our chumps hit balls straight to deep fielders & get our after being well set? Happened to what 5-6 of our top order in the first innings? Was that the plan about being aggressive or playing "positive" cricket? Let's admit it these chumps are *ing useless outside of their comfort zones & they don't evolve strategies out in the middle, they're always followers & chase leather - hence the bare trophy cabinet! Link to comment
Nikhil_cric Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 15 minutes ago, R!TTER said: Nagpur's definitely not slow & has red soil, so generally bounces nicely especially at this time of the year. Hyderabad has black(?) soil so it would generally bind better/deteriorate less but this was a much drier surface. And Oz made their own plans to counter/use it more for their benefit, didn't they? Cummins starting bowling short of a length cutters right from that SL game IIRC, he perfected that strategy all the way till the finals. It looked like no one thought Oz would try this on a slow surface against us, are the TM & rest of "brains trust" paid to be stupid? You're telling me there was no plan B to the sweeps/reverse sweeps just like our WC final fiasco? The conditions are what they are - how come our chumps hit balls straight to deep fielders & get our after being well set? Happened to what 5-6 of our top order in the first innings? Was that the plan about being aggressive or playing "positive" cricket? Let's admit it these chumps are *ing useless outside of their comfort zones & they don't evolve strategies out in the middle, they're always followers & chase leather - hence the bare trophy cabinet! What is your reply even supposed to mean? First of all, India v England happened on a red soil pitch and that was one of the slowest pitches in the entire tournament . Slow pitches are England's kryptonite in white ball cricket. Even in Morgan's era , they lost on all slow tracks to half decent sides There's enough data on that. In Test match pitches , it's a bit harder. We lost Chennai 2021 . Did those "chumps" Kohli and Shastri have any idea how to stop Root on that pitch when he scored a comfortable double hundred . Heck, it took 286 deliveries to get Dom friggin Sibley out on that pitch. And this was well before Bazball and Stokes' captaincy. And we got smashed much worse than Hyderabad. India are not some all conquering GOAT Aussie side that can beat anyone on any pitch, no matter what tactics we use in game. We only won 2021 when we made pitches to counter Root and co. and we may have to do the same here. Link to comment
wobblydoggy Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 58 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said: 2008 was a very long time ago. IPL wasn't so long and we never played a bilateral T20I series of 5 matches those days. We played much more ODI cricket and there were many ODI pitches even then on slow, turning wickets. It was easier to maintain your skills in Tests on slow pitches back then. Much harder when you have to adjust from playing T20's against Afghanistan on belters and a week later you have to bat on Indian Test wickets. The gap is much bigger now with skillsets needed that are vastly different. Nagpur is anyway naturally a slow deck which doesn't allow such exuberant strokeplay. Surfaces like Hyderabad are truer and you have to rig them to make them tough for batting. With the current skillsets of our lineup, we have to rely on batting depth and a spin shootout to beat England. Hyderabad was actually a good pitch. On relatively flatter, good surfaces, nobody can play that risk-reward game better than England in world cricket. That's just a fact that we have to accept. We can't compete with them by playing that style overnight. Look at the World Cup, it's the pitches and conditions that defeated England completely. Against NZ, the slowness of the surface made the big hits too risky to succeed. Against AFG, the swing and spin Against SL - the extra bounce in the surface You have to create conditions that make their high risk approach unviable no matter what. That's where they struggle because they don't low percentage cricket well. They are a high variance side. Within a range of conditions where bounce, seam, swing, spin, unevenness, pace are reasonable. their approach is unbeatable currently. Take them outside of that and they are beatable. So, you are advocating rigging the pitches to beat us? Exactly what you used to accuse us of whenever we gave you a perfectly normal English green pitch, because it rains a lot in UK lol Link to comment
Nikhil_cric Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Just now, wobblydoggy said: So, you are advocating rigging the pitches to beat us? Exactly what you used to accuse us of whenever we gave you a perfectly normal English green pitch, because it rains a lot in UK lol Oh please, save your sanctimony and moral victories for your own countrymen. Your bowlers in the past have asked and got pitches and even Dukes ball as and when they chose to whinge about it. Stokes himself wants and gets the pitches he wants. It's another matter that you still can't win the Ashes despite preparing favourable pitches and changing the Dukes ball to a previous version when Australia were running away with the chase. A little introspection and a little less judgement from your high horse. Thanks! Vijy and wobblydoggy 1 1 Link to comment
Majestic Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 India are in transition and England are at best. I sense a 2012-13 scenario. Link to comment
R!TTER Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said: What is your reply even supposed to mean? First of all, India v England happened on a red soil pitch and that was one of the slowest pitches in the entire tournament . Slow pitches are England's kryptonite in white ball cricket. Even in Morgan's era , they lost on all slow tracks to half decent sides There's enough data on that. In Test match pitches , it's a bit harder. We lost Chennai 2021 . Did those "chumps" Kohli and Shastri have any idea how to stop Root on that pitch when he scored a comfortable double hundred . Heck, it took 286 deliveries to get Dom friggin Sibley out on that pitch. And this was well before Bazball and Stokes' captaincy. And we got smashed much worse than Hyderabad. India are not some all conquering GOAT Aussie side that can beat anyone on any pitch, no matter what tactics we use in game. We only won 2021 when we made pitches to counter Root and co. and we may have to do the same here. Slow pitches are everyone's kryptonite - not just Eng, we generally win more on them because we have great spinners who also bat well on them. I dunno, did those chumps think attacking Archer out of the attack was smart? We lost that game because we didn't score well in the first innings as we should have! The difference today from 2007-11 or 2016-19 is that we're not scoring big in the first innings & probably the biggest reason is that we're not taking singles as often we used to - Pujara & to a lesser extent Kohli not being there has had a profound impact on our ability to stay out there for 150-200 overs. That was in Eng & again we lost that because we *ing threw away our wickets in the second innings on day 4 - 52.3 oh, cut straight to backward point! Pujara has Bazballed himself! Fine innings, but an uncharacteristic way to get out, and Broad is the man to benefit. Strikes with his third ball of the morning, and England suddenly get a strong whiff of the chase in their nostrils once again 153/4 62.2 Pant tickles it to slip where Root snags a sharp catch to his right with both hands. Pushed through flatter and outside off once again. Pant looks for the big reverse-sweep - he tried and missed against Broad earlier this morning - this time he connects but not well enough. Tickles it fine to Root at slip 198/6 59.2 picks out midwicket on the pull! Tame way to go for Iyer, with England telegraphing their intentions and getting him with the short ball for the second time. Potts bellows in relief, as Anderson holds a simple low catch. Game's moving 190/5 Abso*inglutely no reason to play that with 4-5 sessions left in the game! This was also the case in our first innings here - no need to play aerial/stupid shots when you have zero need for that. Eng can go * themselves for all I care but we have had no clear plans for a while now - which is to say that we're not playing risk free cricket when the conditions generally favor/demand such a play & when we need to attack we're also missing that by a wide margin! And we'll lose badly if we do that here, we have an almost non existent batting lineup & Eng can win a batting shootout ala T20 style! This game was not lost because it was a bad pitch, it was probably one of the best suiting our style of play with good turn on the first day. Edited January 31 by R!TTER Vijy 1 Link to comment
wobblydoggy Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, Nikhil_cric said: Oh please, save your sanctimony and moral victories for your own countrymen. Your bowlers in the past have asked and got pitches and even Dukes ball as and when they chose to whinge about it. Stokes himself wants and gets the pitches he wants. It's another matter that you still can't win the Ashes despite preparing favourable pitches and changing the Dukes ball to a previous version when Australia were running away with the chase. A little introspection and a little less judgement from your high horse. Thanks! You are wrong! Groundsmen here would go nuts if asked to do that. They just prepare the pitch, the only thing they may do is cut it shorter, or leave it open They do not set out to make green tops or lumpy pitches And you have the bowlers to exploit English conditions, every side does, so it is no advantage Just as you say here a rank turner harms everyone Link to comment
Nikhil_cric Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 47 minutes ago, R!TTER said: Slow pitches are everyone's kryptonite - not just Eng, we generally win more on them because we have great spinners who also bat well on them. I dunno, did those chumps think attacking Archer out of the attack was smart? We lost that game because we didn't score well in the first innings as we should have! The difference today from 2007-11 or 2016-19 is that we're not scoring big in the first innings & probably the biggest reason is that we're not taking singles as often we used to - Pujara & to a lesser extent Kohli not being there has had a profound impact on our ability to stay out there for 150-200 overs. That was in Eng & again we lost that because we *ing threw away our wickets in the second innings on day 4 - 52.3 oh, cut straight to backward point! Pujara has Bazballed himself! Fine innings, but an uncharacteristic way to get out, and Broad is the man to benefit. Strikes with his third ball of the morning, and England suddenly get a strong whiff of the chase in their nostrils once again 153/4 62.2 Pant tickles it to slip where Root snags a sharp catch to his right with both hands. Pushed through flatter and outside off once again. Pant looks for the big reverse-sweep - he tried and missed against Broad earlier this morning - this time he connects but not well enough. Tickles it fine to Root at slip 198/6 59.2 picks out midwicket on the pull! Tame way to go for Iyer, with England telegraphing their intentions and getting him with the short ball for the second time. Potts bellows in relief, as Anderson holds a simple low catch. Game's moving 190/5 Abso*inglutely no reason to play that with 4-5 sessions left in the game! This was also the case in our first innings here - no need to play aerial/stupid shots when you have zero need for that. Eng can go * themselves for all I care but we have had no clear plans for a while now - which is to say that we're not playing risk free cricket when the conditions generally favor/demand such a play & when we need to attack we're also missing that by a wide margin! And we'll lose badly if we do that here, we have an almost non existent batting lineup & Eng can win a batting shootout ala T20 style! This game was not lost because it was a bad pitch, it was probably one of the best suiting our style of play with good turn on the first day. No. England struggle on slow pitches disproportionately in white ball cricket. They can't win on them. They are a high variance side like I explained. The Hyderabad surface did deteriorate on day 4 and there is no escaping that on a normal Indian pitch . Either make pitches that stay relatively flat throughout(rare in India) or one that is tough to bat on from ball 1 to keep the toss advantage minimal. England are too strong to let go of a match where they have won the toss Anyway let's see. This is going to be a really good series. Link to comment
Nikhil_cric Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 4 minutes ago, wobblydoggy said: You are wrong! Groundsmen here would go nuts if asked to do that. They just prepare the pitch, the only thing they may do is cut it shorter, or leave it open They do not set out to make green tops or lumpy pitches And you have the bowlers to exploit English conditions, every side does, so it is no advantage Just as you say here a rank turner harms everyone Rubbish. You have absolutely prepared pitches to negate opposition teams strengths and enhance your own. 2013 Ashes series had massive turning pitches for Swann against Australia . 2019 had the slowest Lords pitch in Lords history to negate the OZ pace attack who were then at their quickest. There are plenty of examples of this happening. The weather is just an excuse for the blatant pitch preparation that you do . Anyway, the Dukes ball change done in the last innings of the 5th Ashes is the worst sort of cheating ever done in Test cricket. You had Australia bowl with the rubbish quality of Dukes (2022 onwards) and then gave that trundler Woakes a hard new 2018 batch Dukes to bowl with midway through their chase Thats as blatant as it gets. No amount of pitch preparation was ever as bad as that . The equivalent would be us batting on one pitch and asking England to bat on another . Link to comment
wobblydoggy Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 21 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said: Rubbish. You have absolutely prepared pitches to negate opposition teams strengths and enhance your own. 2013 Ashes series had massive turning pitches for Swann against Australia . 2019 had the slowest Lords pitch in Lords history to negate the OZ pace attack who were then at their quickest. There are plenty of examples of this happening. The weather is just an excuse for the blatant pitch preparation that you do . Anyway, the Dukes ball change done in the last innings of the 5th Ashes is the worst sort of cheating ever done in Test cricket. You had Australia bowl with the rubbish quality of Dukes (2022 onwards) and then gave that trundler Woakes a hard new 2018 batch Dukes to bowl with midway through their chase Thats as blatant as it gets. No amount of pitch preparation was ever as bad as that . The equivalent would be us batting on one pitch and asking England to bat on another . Rubbish! We did not "give" Woakes anything, the independent Umpires gave him that ball. You forget that umpires are independent these days because back in the 70's and 80's your lot had so much pressure on them with death threats etc that they could not be trusted to be impartial. We have and will never 'create' pitches like you allege. It is because we don't that we lose so many tests at home compared to you lot and Pakistan Sri Lanka are far more trustworthy as are I hate to say it the Aussi's Link to comment
Nikhil_cric Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 minute ago, wobblydoggy said: Rubbish! We did not "give" Woakes anything, the independent Umpires gave him that ball. You forget that umpires are independent these days because back in the 70's and 80's your lot had so much pressure on them with death threats etc that they could not be trusted to be impartial. We have and will never 'create' pitches like you allege. It is because we don't that we lose so many tests at home compared to you lot and Pakistan Sri Lanka are far more trustworthy as are I hate to say it the Aussi's Whatever. It's well documented and even accepted that England did get the pitches they wanted The independent umpires were given a bunch of balls with not a single ball resembling the one that had been used. The independent umpire had no choice but to select something. The home ground is responsible for sending the balls for umpires to choose from. You cheated your way to a drawn Ashes because you can't even win on your manufactured pitches. Even Uganda cricket board is more trustworthy than the ECB when it comes to this. Link to comment
R!TTER Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 13 minutes ago, wobblydoggy said: We have and will never 'create' pitches like you allege. Sure man, if you say so 14 minutes ago, wobblydoggy said: It is because we don't that we lose so many tests at home compared to you lot and Pakistan What? Did you drop from the heavens on/around May 2022 or something, or do you think (your)test cricket only counts post "bass" ball? Link to comment
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