India's richest 1% holds 40% of wealth; inequality rising since 2000s:

[Lone Wolf]

5 hours ago, gattaca said:

Chinese are setting their companies in Vietnam. It will be vassal state. 

Lol no...  Vietnam gas strong ties with US and Japs... 

Most of Vietnamese workforce is employed in Japan. 

Third biggest trading partner too. 

 

Vietnam actually knows to play both sides without compromising its sovereignty like SoKo and Japan Australia 

[Lone Wolf]

8 hours ago, bharathh said:

 

Hopefully all the Bangladeshis run there now! 

 

That said - let's see if Vietnam is able to take the step beyond middle income into developed economy once the labour arbitrage evens out. It will be interesting to see how far they get to once big brother China starts taking an interest in the country, given that they are a neighbour and starts harassing them.

China atm doesn't want to make a enemy outta them...  It would be foolish to anger a country like Vietnam which is growing into a credible regional power in SEA.  

They are busy with Filipinos and Japs these days though. 

[Muloghonto]

49 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

 

Manufacturing needs not just infrastructure but actual vision from government.

 

The current vision is to enrich cronies close to government in highly regulated industries like telecom, petroleum, Healthcare, pharmaceutical, education, ports and airports.

 

This would be okay if the population was the size of Denmark or Norway.

 

With the size of the population there needs to be a plan like Vietnam, China and Mexico. These countries have invested heavily since 2010 on value add manufacturing jobs focused on exports.

 

Not a single industrialist in India are in any of the future facing industries like semiconductors or smartphones or robotics or even something as basic as AI technologies.

 

All this will come back to bite in 20 years when other countries will far surpass in exports and devalue the Indian currency even more due to lack of high value add exports.

 

what is the amount of semiconductor fabrication investment committed to india over the last 3 years again ? 

None of those countries you mentioned went anywhere before getting their infrastructure going fyi- something that this governmetn has done better than the sum total of all governments prior

 

[mishra]

38 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

 

what is the amount of semiconductor fabrication investment committed to india over the last 3 years again ? 

None of those countries you mentioned went anywhere before getting their infrastructure going fyi- something that this governmetn has done better than the sum total of all governments prior

 

In 2013, we were clubbed into fragile five. Now we are top five economies of world.

In 2013, GDP size was 1.7 trillion, Now its over 4 trillion.

There have been millions who have been uplifted from extreme poverty since Modi but how many billionaires India  reated under Modi? Just Adani and few unicorn owners.
 

So if anything , India needs more billionaires. People calling them cronies need to get there head checked as hundreds of milions of peiple are surviving and have a life because of these cronies.

Edited March 27, 2024 by mishra

[gattaca]

2 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

 

Manufacturing needs not just infrastructure but actual vision from government.

 

The current vision is to enrich cronies close to government in highly regulated industries like telecom, petroleum, Healthcare, pharmaceutical, education, ports and airports.

 

This would be okay if the population was the size of Denmark or Norway.

 

With the size of the population there needs to be a plan like Vietnam, China and Mexico. These countries have invested heavily since 2010 on value add manufacturing jobs focused on exports.

 

Not a single industrialist in India are in any of the future facing industries like semiconductors or smartphones or robotics or even something as basic as AI technologies.

 

All this will come back to bite in 20 years when other countries will far surpass in exports and devalue the Indian currency even more due to lack of high value add exports.

Indian govt invested 15 billion dollars for semiconductor multiple companies are already building plants. We have Indian companies, Japanese , Thai and American companies building plants. Indian govt plan is self sufficiency and then exports.

 

 

https://spectrum.ieee.org/indian-semiconductor-manufacturing 

[Lone Wolf]

4 hours ago, gattaca said:

Indian govt invested 15 billion dollars for semiconductor multiple companies are already building plants. We have Indian companies, Japanese , Thai and American companies building plants. Indian govt plan is self sufficiency and then exports.

 

 

https://spectrum.ieee.org/indian-semiconductor-manufacturing 

India probably faces far more challenges now than in the past.  Intel has agreed to set up a 3D chip plant in Malaysia. 

The last 3 decades are coming back to bite us.  Not many chip manufacturing companies seem interested...  Except Tower recently. 

https://www.businesstoday.in/magazine/deep-dive/story/indias-semiconductor-manufacturing-has-a-strong-foundation-been-laid-416123-2024-02-04

 

 

[kepler37b]

On 3/21/2024 at 3:23 AM, Singh bling said:

https://www.deccanherald.com/india/indias-richest-1-holds-40-of-wealth-inequality-rising-since-2000s-study-2944893

 

It said India's top 1 per cent population's income share appears to be among the highest in the world "behind only perhaps Peru, Yemen and a couple of other small countries".

 

Once AI comes along full fledged, top 0.1% might end up owning 99% of the wealth.

 

And remaining 99.9% living on Doles.

 

 

 

[Mariyam]

46 minutes ago, kepler37b said:

Once AI comes along full fledged, top 0.1% might end up owning 99% of the wealth.

 

And remaining 99.9% living on Doles.

 

 

 

Don't think it will be the case in India.

 

AI will have no effect whatsoever on farming. Or any kind of natural produce. Oil extraction. Coal extraction etc. Or will it?

[mishra]

7 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

 

This is what you forget..

 

2013 Average $1 US Dollar = 58 rupees.

 

Now $83.

 

That alone is devaluation of currency by 30%

 

So the GDP of 4 trillion is in reality due to currency devaluation is actually 2.8 trillion.

 

Now let's talk about inflation...

 

Over the past decade until 2022, consumer price inflation in India averaged 5.5%, which was above the Asia-Pacific's regional average of 2.1%.

 

So on a compounded annual basis from 2013 to now... No matter who the government was, the Indian economy would have been similarly positioned.

 

With China being a closed economy, it was bound to happen that FDI would enter India.

 

The problem here is PURPOSELY eliminating Walmart, Amazon and similar players in order to protect cronies across so many industries so monopolies can thrive which hurts consumer choice. And ZERO value add sectors encouraged to allow for exports because it would hurt cronies.

 

Again, perfectly fine if your population is the size of a Norway. There is only so much growth with Oyo (AirBNB clone), Swiggy (doordash clone), Ola (uber clone) etc.

 

Need the next Samsung, Nvidia, Apple or at least something like an OpenAI that is home grown. If a French company like Mistral can do great things, nothing is stopping India but there never will because of brain drain of talent in these areas as people know there's no hope of succeeding when cronyism is entrenched.

 

Until the next Mark Zuckerberg type entrepreneur becomes richest man/woman in India, no innovator will want stay here especially when they see rampant cronyism and nepotism. It's a fact and the emigration numbers don't lie.

4+ trillion is in USD Not in INR. Read some basics. Developed econoies, all of them has 2.1 percentage inflationary “TARGET”. None meet that.

u complain about Indian  rich getting richer, do u think if its not rich then who else can compete with other rich in rest of world who are getting richer by investing in various sphere. Neither average Joe nor gvmnts can compete. Thats why even Chinese have created a capitalist class.

Edited March 28, 2024 by mishra

[gattaca]

3 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

India probably faces far more challenges now than in the past.  Intel has agreed to set up a 3D chip plant in Malaysia. 

The last 3 decades are coming back to bite us.  Not many chip manufacturing companies seem interested...  Except Tower recently. 

https://www.businesstoday.in/magazine/deep-dive/story/indias-semiconductor-manufacturing-has-a-strong-foundation-been-laid-416123-2024-02-04

 

 

India has better talent pool than other countries. Ya that is strange why someone would restrict no of chips manufactured from a facility. Japanese companies are still a good start. 

Edited March 28, 2024 by gattaca

[Lone Wolf]

Very disturbing numbers...  There needs to be some radical changes policy wise.  Most of the graduates coming through lack basic skills.  That demographic has sky rocketed these numbers. 

 

No wonder Telugu Gujju Haryanvi and Punjabis youth have resorted to illegal immigration to the West. 

 

Edited March 28, 2024 by Lone Wolf

[mishra]

3 hours ago, gattaca said:

India has better talent pool than other countries. Ya that is strange why someone would restrict no of chips manufactured from a facility. Japanese companies are still a good start. 

The college I belonged, was selective, everyone was talented. Nowadays, I feel how ahaed of times these students were based on friends daroo party discussions on simple issues like  how a single database of All of India is needed and digitisation and bank account for evry house only way India can ensure Wealth creation and monitor health (Every aspect finacial , education, physical health, economic)  of every citizen. Not till Modi, we came with Adhar and bank accounts which ended up direct benefits of what we used to discuss before year 2000 in college.

 

How many are working for GoI from my batch of 200+? Just 4.

How many are abroad, Atleast 100+. Rest all are working for MNCs in India. Why? Talent pool is of no use, if economy hasnt got money or leadership to utilise the talent.  India needs more FDI which will basically mean Talent pool of India becomes Global talent pool to make Rich across the world even richer at the same time Indian poverty gets eradicated

Edited March 28, 2024 by mishra

[mishra]

40 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

 

FDI is reluctant to come when Walmart, Amazon and others are quashed to protect cronies so their businesses are safe.

 

This is why China is down now. They tried for decades to protect their home grown companies to prevent the likes of Google, Apple and others to dominate there.

 

https://www.indiatoday.in/business/story/mukesh-ambani-vs-amazon-how-reliance-is-winning-game-of-thrones-in-future-retail-dispute-1924108-2022-03-11

 

Stuff like this is exactly the root cause of the issue.

 

Under fair capitalist and democratic legal system, something like this should never happen.

 

 

First, I dont care if shops in India are owned by Future Wall mart Flipcart Amzon or individual businesses apart from one basic fact that these Enterprises are Supposed to pay more to gvmnt in revenues which helps gvmnt to fund policies for Poor (However it got all messed up and now gvmnt realised that they dont gain anything by bringing Star bucks or Wallmart as Accountant ensure they have no tax liabilty). In above case Amzon outsmarted Futures by putting a legal clause that you cant sell urself to Reliance. Reliance used another legal mechanism of takeover.  Who cares as neither will pay any tax.

 

What we should care is investment in manufacturing, defence,infra,Tech and banking as the benefits of these investments are felt by Generations to come.

 

Again emigration is because someone is happy to hire the same Indian and give them better life who would be jobless/low paid and/or struggling in India with mostlikely less net productivity in course of his life

Edited March 28, 2024 by mishra

[Muloghonto]

15 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

 

This is what you forget..

 

2013 Average $1 US Dollar = 58 rupees.

 

Now $83.

 

That alone is devaluation of currency by 30%

 

So the GDP of 4 trillion is in reality due to currency devaluation is actually 2.8 trillion.

 

Now let's talk about inflation...

 

Over the past decade until 2022, consumer price inflation in India averaged 5.5%, which was above the Asia-Pacific's regional average of 2.1%.

 

So on a compounded annual basis from 2013 to now... No matter who the government was, the Indian economy would have been similarly positioned.

 

With China being a closed economy, it was bound to happen that FDI would enter India.

 

The problem here is PURPOSELY eliminating Walmart, Amazon and similar players in order to protect cronies across so many industries so monopolies can thrive which hurts consumer choice. And ZERO value add sectors encouraged to allow for exports because it would hurt cronies.

 

Again, perfectly fine if your population is the size of a Norway. There is only so much growth with Oyo (AirBNB clone), Swiggy (doordash clone), Ola (uber clone) etc.

 

Need the next Samsung, Nvidia, Apple or at least something like an OpenAI that is home grown. If a French company like Mistral can do great things, nothing is stopping India but there never will because of brain drain of talent in these areas as people know there's no hope of succeeding when cronyism is entrenched.

 

Until the next Mark Zuckerberg type entrepreneur becomes richest man/woman in India, no innovator will want stay here especially when they see rampant cronyism and nepotism. It's a fact and the emigration numbers don't lie.

 

I asked you a question. I expect an answer. What is the semiconductor sector investment in India over the last 3 years ? 

Walmart & Amazon do deserve protection from, as they are foreign companies with overpowered logistics that will wreck home companies ability to compete. They do the same against our pharma industry for the same reason, so explain why we shouldnt do the same. 

 

[Muloghonto]

Just now, BlueBlood said:

You don't care. Average Indian doesn't care.

 

But you want more jobs through FDI.

 

Everything is interlinked.

 

answer my questions. Why are you dodging them ? 

 

[mishra]

1 hour ago, BlueBlood said:

You don't care. Average Indian doesn't care.

 

But you want more jobs through FDI.

 

Everything is interlinked.

If you wish that  reliance will loose against amazon in home turf , good luck with that

 

Don’t understand logic and linkages why u think reliance loosing legal battle to Bezos helps in wealth distribution 

Edited March 28, 2024 by mishra

[mishra]

10 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

 

Dude, use some common sense for once...

 

Reliance came in KNOWING that Amazon had a contract where they had a first right of refusal.

 

They also knew that by twisting the laws they can get what they want as they have full backing of the central government.

 

This is why they got a sweet heart deal that no other business whether Indian or outside would get. This is what we call crony capitalism, a text book example.

 

Kishore Biyani from Big Bazaar left with almost nothing in this deal after the whole court battles. So it's not like US vs. India either. Reliance took home everything and India lost Amazon's investment. Less competition means higher prices and price gouging.

 

What this does is, in the future a lot of big foreign investors will shy away from investing in Indian businesses or innovative industries. This has direct co-relation with lack of jobs for youth as the biggest hiring occurs from multinational companies.

 

This is what happened with PayTM and Chinese investors. Same thing with the whole Walmart saga. 

 

You can be happy driving the "colonialists" away on one hand but want more FDI to make investments in India on the other. It's laughably illogical.

 

This is why even if Modi announces $1 Trillion plan, it will not help when the type of players who are needed are afraid to invest due to being burned before.

 

Look at semiconductor industry, Malaysia got it from Intel over India. This is the ground reality. It's not like we lack the money or resources, it's just investors are scared of losing their shirt like with Byjus, PayTM, Big Bazaar and so many other examples. You think word doesn't spread in the international legal circles after what happened to Amazon and Walmart?

Again, How a shop if owned by Bezos, but not by Ambani helps in wealth distribution?

 

Secondly, To a normal person, If Bezoshad  put a legal clause with Future that don’t sell the shops to Ambani clearly meant something fishy. Ambanis figured out legal solution based on their own experience in India

 

Thirdly, check FDI inflow rate, before you conclude that this case deterred investors.

 

Finally, Holistic perspective, India has limited landmass. Indian leadership should be very careful about sectors they want investment in, India can not live in a poltlutin gas chamber simply because it decided to manufacture anything and everything 

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2024 by mishra

[Muloghonto]

1 minute ago, BlueBlood said:

FDI inflow currently is fully in industries that serve Indian consumer. Not export oriented industries.

 

False. The greatest improvement of Indian sectors since 2019 has been in manufacturing and thats where most of the FDIs are going. Again, citable. 

1 minute ago, BlueBlood said:

 

 

The #1 reason why Vietnam took over India in manufacturing specifically since 2019 is because the Chinese and Japanese companies could readily find talented people who could work on high tech manufacturing and could train them easily. This was impossible in India as this type of talent doesn't exist due to decades of mismanagement and laziness in government to not focus on proper education and training.

Only a fool thinks that vietnam has a higher talent pool for manufacturing than India. The investment flowed to Vietnam because vietnam ranked much higher in the ease of business rating, which is what most foreign firms care. Again, this is one category where India has improved tremendously under Modi, going from 120 rank to in the top 50. Which is why investment is now flowing in to the manufacturing sector. 

1 minute ago, BlueBlood said:

 

 

I just hate this chest thumping of how the current government is the greatest thing ever and India has become a developed country nonsense. It's simple, you either invest for the future with actual concrete planning like Vietnam, Mexico, Malaysia etc. or just accept the fact that it will never happen due to systemic corruption and laziness. Don't just make up fake facts that don't show ground reality.

Thats because you are full of false info and nonsense conclusions that are directly against the evidence. 

[Muloghonto]

3 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

You are a brainwashed bhakt with zero knowledge of what you are talking about. This is why it's a waste of time to even discuss with you as you have zero common sense to think logically as you have set your mind on one thing and will find information to suit your bias.

Listen brainwashed anti-bhakt, i asked you some simple questions. I expect answers and not more innainity about your ignorance. 

I asked you to tell me what is the investment amount dedicated to manufacturing in India over the last 4 years, how much investment has been committed for semi conductor fabrication and what % jump it represents.

 

These numbers will prove if you are right or wrong about this government doing nothing/doing not enough about bringing high value manufacturing into india. So put up the numbers or shut up. 

 

Vietnam doesn't have Adani & Ambani. That is true. What vietnam doesnt have, is rule of law and legal processes for industries. Its far easier to set up these slave-camp industrial parks if you have no semblance of rule of law and legal precedent, now show me a single democracy that does what vietnam does before you make up more innane nonsense.