MAYANK YADAV .... EXPRESS and bouncy Indian pacer who is accurate too

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

I think if he goes thru the t20 series unscathed, I would not be against him making his test debut in one of the tests against NZ.

 

The seamers who are healthy, other than Bumrah is there anyone who screams they will cause some trouble to Aussies.

 

If he is just limited to t20s then he is of very little importance for Indian team.

 

Why would you not be against including someone in a team who has ZERO experience bowling more than 10 overs in a day ? 
This is classic pace-worship syndrome. Bet if mayank was 140kph everyone would be 'good potential but needs to play ranji'. 

Just having speed isnt sufficient enough reason to give this guy a test cap. Guy needs to prove he can bowl 20 overs a day in the first place.

 

[putrevus]

49 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

 

Why would you not be against including someone in a team who has ZERO experience bowling more than 10 overs in a day ? 
This is classic pace-worship syndrome. Bet if mayank was 140kph everyone would be 'good potential but needs to play ranji'. 

Just having speed isnt sufficient enough reason to give this guy a test cap. Guy needs to prove he can bowl 20 overs a day in the first place.

 

He is an exception because, he has express pace. If he bowls 12- 15 overs in day it should be enough.We are doing test drive in India as spinners will there to share load.

 

He has shown in limited matches he has played  he has got exceptional control also.

 

I would want him over a guy like  Siraj because of the impact he can have on a match.

 

Mayank has everything you need in a fast bowler, pace, control, wicket taking ability.

 

This guy is an upgrade over everyone we have now other than Bumrah without playing a single match.

 

i want him to bowl three 4 over spells in each session that’s all in his debut test.

[Muloghonto]

32 minutes ago, putrevus said:

He is an exception because, he has express pace. If he bowls 12- 15 overs in day it should be enough.We are doing test drive in India as spinners will there to share load.

 

He has shown in limited matches he has played  he has got exceptional control also.

 

I would want him over a guy like  Siraj because of the impact he can have on a match.

 

Mayank has everything you need in a fast bowler, pace, control, wicket taking ability.

 

This guy is an upgrade over everyone we have now other than Bumrah without playing a single match.

 

i want him to bowl three 4 over spells in each session that’s all in his debut test.

Being fast doesnt make you an exception to proving your fitness and durability.

And no, 12-15 isnt enough.

There are 80 overs a day in test cricket, with standard being 4 bowlers - 5 when there is an allrounder present but thats not a given. So he has to be fit enough to bowl 20 overs in a day. 

A guy who pulls up after bowling 3 overs in IPL will have zero impact in test cricket, if he cant prove his fitness. 
As i said, this is the prime weakness of Indians and Pakistani - the moment you see real pace, all rationality, all the process goes outta the window and its 'gib this boy a chance in the highest level, even when he isnt good enough to be picked by his own state team'

 

If mayank was anywhere clsoe to being ready for tests, he'd be a regular in his FC team, not being cut from that team itself.

Test cricekt isnt a laboratory for seeing if you fit in or not. Its a performance field where you get to play only if you are good enough to stand the rigours fo test cricket.

 

[Need4Speed]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

 

More muscles do not mean more pace. Protien helps in muscle repair as much as muscle building, so higher protien intake will help him recover faster. it wont make him actually faster because speed comes from technique more than muscles.

 

I have also heard from those people who go to zym for building muscles..that protein helps in muscle repairs when you want to grow them big and leads to more strength..

[Muloghonto]

Just now, Need4Speed said:

I have also heard from those people who go to zym for building muscles..that protein helps in muscle repairs when you want to grow them big and leads to more strength..

bowling speed isnt about strength. its about momentum transfer. Bumrah jogs in 10 paces, is built like a toothpick and gets to 90mph regularly. Meanwhile, Jaques Kallis, who could break Bumrah in half like a toothpick, man with hulk hogan chest and shoulders running in full steam could barely crack 85mph.

If you look at how Holding was built vs how Patrick Patterson was built, Patty should've bowled at 120mph if Holding regularly clocked 90-95mph coz Patty looked like the Hulk compared to Holding looking like the ant-man in comparison. 

Vaas was also a lot sturdier and stronger built than malinga but malinga was a lot faster. 

there's plenty of such examples, where you will reach the conclusion that bowling speed isnt about muscle power.

 

[putrevus]

28 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Being fast doesnt make you an exception to proving your fitness and durability.

And no, 12-15 isnt enough.

There are 80 overs a day in test cricket, with standard being 4 bowlers - 5 when there is an allrounder present but thats not a given. So he has to be fit enough to bowl 20 overs in a day. 

A guy who pulls up after bowling 3 overs in IPL will have zero impact in test cricket, if he cant prove his fitness. 
As i said, this is the prime weakness of Indians and Pakistani - the moment you see real pace, all rationality, all the process goes outta the window and its 'gib this boy a chance in the highest level, even when he isnt good enough to be picked by his own state team'

 

If mayank was anywhere clsoe to being ready for tests, he'd be a regular in his FC team, not being cut from that team itself.

Test cricekt isnt a laboratory for seeing if you fit in or not. Its a performance field where you get to play only if you are good enough to stand the rigours fo test cricket.

 

Who said 12-15 overs is not enough in Indian conditions for fast bowler. It is more than enough.

 

He is not going to play all tests, he will play two or three tests  rest of the year.

 

If Australian tour was not so close he would have played couple of FC matches which he can do even now after his test debut.

 

They are taking a chance on him if he is asked to play test cricket but IMO he is worth taking that chance . 

 

He is a tailor made for Australian conditions . If it was anywhere else I would not have taken a chance but Australia and bouncy wickets.

 

let him get thru the t20 series first.

[Muloghonto]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

Who said 12-15 overs is not enough in Indian conditions for fast bowler. It is more than enough.

 

He is not going to play all tests, he will play two or three tests  rest of the year.

 

If Australian tour was not so close he would have played couple of FC matches which he can do even now after his test debut.

 

They are taking a chance on him if he is asked to play test cricket but IMO he is worth taking that chance . 

 

He is a tailor made for Australian conditions . If it was anywhere else I would not have taken a chance but Australia and bouncy wickets.

 

let him get thru the t20 series first.

 

He doesnt get to play a SINGLE test this year, next year or 10 years later, if he isnt good enough to make it to a FC team and his total FC experience is 0.

He isnt in contention for Australia tour, nor the NZ series for the Tests. He has about 10 guys ahead of him at this point, even if he bowled at 170kph, that wouldnt change so long as his FC experience is at 0 and shouldn't. 

he isnt tailormaide for any condition yet, given the chap cant last an IPL season without being injured. Even TODAY i can bowl 4 overs of medium pace without getting injured and i am 40+. 

 

Taking a chance with someone with 0 experience in long format of cricket just coz he bowls fast for 15 balls is setting the wrong example and going the Pakistani way. No thanks.

I want us to go the Aussie way, where not even Pat Cummins got to play Test cricket without minimum 20 FC matches under his belt.

 

[Need4Speed]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

bowling speed isnt about strength. its about momentum transfer. Bumrah jogs in 10 paces, is built like a toothpick and gets to 90mph regularly. Meanwhile, Jaques Kallis, who could break Bumrah in half like a toothpick, man with hulk hogan chest and shoulders running in full steam could barely crack 85mph.

If you look at how Holding was built vs how Patrick Patterson was built, Patty should've bowled at 120mph if Holding regularly clocked 90-95mph coz Patty looked like the Hulk compared to Holding looking like the ant-man in comparison. 

Vaas was also a lot sturdier and stronger built than malinga but malinga was a lot faster. 

there's plenty of such examples, where you will reach the conclusion that bowling speed isnt about muscle power.

 

I was thinking more about it..perhaps its combination of everything..even strength too..like many fast bowlers have a good throwing arm too so they usually field at the boundary..their throws are powerful and have pace too..similarly they can tonk the bowl well if its in their arc..these things requires good strength as well..

Edited October 3, 2024 by Need4Speed

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, Need4Speed said:

I was thinking more about it..perhaps its combination of everything..even strength too..like many fast bowlers have a good throwing arm too so they usually field at the boundary..their throws are powerful and have pace too..similarly they can tonk the bowl well if its in their arc..these things requires good strength as well..

Not all fast bowlers have good throwing arms and they usually field by the boundary is because bowlers tend to lack the reflexes of batters that is required for close-in fielding, plus you dont want your bowlers straining their muscles doing reflex slides and stops. 

I once spoke to Ambrose in person and he was pretty clear cut - that the 'power' for fast bowlers dont come from their upper bodies, it comes from their core and their legs. 

Which would make sense when you look at how many genuine fast bowlers are skinny in the upper body. But if you look at their legs, they all have strong buttocks, almost the kind you'd see from gym squat-freaks. 

Holding, Marshall, Mohammed Sami ( the Pakistani one not our guy), Bumrah, Malinga, etc. are a few people who come to mind who are genuinely 90+mph bowlers but upper body is skinny as twigs.

Ofcourse, you have 'mushtanda' built fast bowlers like Alan Donald/Brett Lee/Shoaib Akhtar etc. who look like He-man for the upper body as well.

 

Edited October 4, 2024 by Muloghonto

[tapandrun]

Its v.hard to be injury free for a 145+ kmph bowler, only lee and akthar in recent times were able to do so for large part.

tait, bond, styne, wood,waqar, archer, etc...  all had injury riddled career

 

But a bowler can not be a liability on the team with their fitness be it zaheer pulling out after bowling 4 balls into a test match, bhuvi pull after 3/4 over in a wc match or any1.

if they are not reliable to go through the match then its hard for TM and selectors to carry such player in the marquee events.

 

More FC or domestic matches means much more understanding of game and skills and able to bowl longer spells.

Not sure what was the extent of injury to mayank, but lsg tried to play him even when he was not fit because they were seeing him as sure match winner 2 matches 2 pos 2 wins.

 

As for his selection in domestic side, there are multiple reason on why he missed out. cricket was off for 2 yrs, plus del has string of fast bowler with two ind intnl (Ishant, Saini)how could one make a place fr them when bcci has instructed to play domestic and when intnl players are making themselves available no local board can say no to them. del fast bowling is stacked. new player can only get a chance when there is ind call-up for senior players.

 

even teams like raj. has to let go of bisnoi-ind intnl and akash singh -ind u-19, with age group cricket increased frm 23 to25 its getting harder for a 19-20 yo to get into main ranji side or first 15. 

 

 

 

[rkt.india]

7 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

 

More muscles do not mean more pace. Protien helps in muscle repair as much as muscle building, so higher protien intake will help him recover faster. it wont make him actually faster because speed comes from technique more than muscles.

 

Speed comes from fast twitch muscles, not technique. No technique can make you bowl quick if you lack fast twitch muscles. Fast twitch fibers can't be increased but their size can be increased by strength training. Technique helps in accuracy and avoid injuries.

Edited October 4, 2024 by rkt.india

[rkt.india]

45 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Its v.hard to be injury free for a 145+ kmph bowler, only lee and akthar in recent times were able to do so for large part.

tait, bond, styne, wood,waqar, archer, etc...  all had injury riddled career

 

But a bowler can not be a liability on the team with their fitness be it zaheer pulling out after bowling 4 balls into a test match, bhuvi pull after 3/4 over in a wc match or any1.

if they are not reliable to go through the match then its hard for TM and selectors to carry such player in the marquee events.

 

More FC or domestic matches means much more understanding of game and skills and able to bowl longer spells.

Not sure what was the extent of injury to mayank, but lsg tried to play him even when he was not fit because they were seeing him as sure match winner 2 matches 2 pos 2 wins.

 

As for his selection in domestic side, there are multiple reason on why he missed out. cricket was off for 2 yrs, plus del has string of fast bowler with two ind intnl (Ishant, Saini)how could one make a place fr them when bcci has instructed to play domestic and when intnl players are making themselves available no local board can say no to them. del fast bowling is stacked. new player can only get a chance when there is ind call-up for senior players.

 

even teams like raj. has to let go of bisnoi-ind intnl and akash singh -ind u-19, with age group cricket increased frm 23 to25 its getting harder for a 19-20 yo to get into main ranji side or first 15. 

 

 

 

He has not made it to Delhi squad because he is not yet allowed by NCA to play red ball cricket.  They want him to first play T20s and ODIs.

[tapandrun]

3 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Speed comes from fast twitch muscles, not technique. No technique can make you bowl quick if you lack fast twitch muscles. Fast twitch fibers can't be increased but their size can be increased by strength training. Technique helps in accuracy and avoid injuries.

Any thing 145+ kmph has to be naturally gifted, good technique can make a 135 kmph bowler bowl 140kmph (talking about a bowler who is at peak fitness and strength).

And bowling technique can not be so generic because a bowler has to pitch the ball in right areas and right length, every1 has a unique bowling action

 

There are bowlers who are the quickest amongst their age group suddenly gets to a terminal speed beyond which they can not go and so keep on increase pace and some suddenly gets faster  

 

 

 

[tapandrun]

3 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

He has not made it to Delhi squad because he is not yet allowed by NCA to play red ball cricket.  They want him to first play T20s and ODIs.

Was talking pre-injury duration

[rkt.india]

5 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Was talking pre-injury duration

He was in Delhi ranji squad preinjury, played one game too but got injured. So couldn't play more.

[tapandrun]

10 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

He was in Delhi ranji squad preinjury, played one game too but got injured. So couldn't play more.

Think he got that game because saini was called for Ind or Ind-a .

 

Increase in age group from 23 to 25 , plus ipl contracts for senior player and bcci asking every1 to play domestic is pushing FC and list A debut ages and retirement ages. As its common partice to age fudging  by 2-3 yrs  means bowlers who should be at their  prime are not able to make to state first 15

 

Edited October 4, 2024 by tapandrun

[rkt.india]

7 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Think he got that game because saini was called for Ind or Ind-a .

 

Increase in age group from 23 to 25 plus ipl contracts for senior player and bcci asking every1 to play domestic is pushing FC and list A debut ages and retirement ages.

 

Yes but he was anyway in line to make his debut.

[Need4Speed]

19 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Yes but he was anyway in line to make his debut.

sometime back you posted a video of a probably 13 yr old boy..I may be wrong..but did you say at that time..he is your son?..and has natural speed..how is he doing nowadays..

[Nikhil_cric]

6 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

 

He doesnt get to play a SINGLE test this year, next year or 10 years later, if he isnt good enough to make it to a FC team and his total FC experience is 0.

He isnt in contention for Australia tour, nor the NZ series for the Tests. He has about 10 guys ahead of him at this point, even if he bowled at 170kph, that wouldnt change so long as his FC experience is at 0 and shouldn't. 

he isnt tailormaide for any condition yet, given the chap cant last an IPL season without being injured. Even TODAY i can bowl 4 overs of medium pace without getting injured and i am 40+. 

 

Taking a chance with someone with 0 experience in long format of cricket just coz he bowls fast for 15 balls is setting the wrong example and going the Pakistani way. No thanks.

I want us to go the Aussie way, where not even Pat Cummins got to play Test cricket without minimum 20 FC matches under his belt.

 

Pat Cummins even now does not have 20 FC matches under his belt . Only 14.

 

He didn't play a Shield game for 6 years before playing a couple and then making a Test comeback. 

[tapandrun]

1 minute ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Pat Cummins even now does not have 20 FC matches under his belt . Only 14.

 

He didn't play a Shield game for 6 years before playing a couple and then making a Test comeback. 

exp. pacers have to be picked early they have limited time with that kind of speed and even lesser time in domestic circuit because of various factors.

 

Tait and lee made their debut when they were 22/23 yo pattinson was around same age , cummins made his debut when he was just 19 or so