Curious case of Waqar's career - avg 18 in first 32 tests and avg 28 in next 55

[Chaos]

9 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Facts aren't bias. 

Fact is even at his peak Waqar was a stats padder  against minnows. 

Stat padder with the help of bottle caps. @First class bottle caps and lodu pook umpires is what they really need to thank for. Hey @Austin 3:!6 n @Lord its time for you guys to go to sleep n rest…i got this :)

[raki05]

1 hour ago, First class said:

I marked you as the low level poster, there are not many here , but you made the list, still talking non-sense. 

Thank you for noticing …. But but but You will always be Pakistani !!!

[Chaos]

2 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Thank you for noticing …. But but but You will always be Pakistani !!!

Pooku. Pakiiii Pakiiiii pardesi. @First class his roots are deep within madrassa in lahore

Edited January 13, 2025 by Chaos

[Chaos]

3 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Thank you for noticing …. But but but You will always be Pakistani !!!

Whoa im shocked he didnt add me to his list yet 

[raki05]

2 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Pooku. Pakiiii Pakiiiii pardesi. @First class his roots are deep within madrassa in lahore

That guy in his mind think himsef very intelligent and pretend as well wisher of Indian cricket but he is as jealous and burnt @ss Pakistani like any other madarsachaap pooks. They had only thing to gloat about historically is best asian fast bowler and all of sudden bumrah happened who left each and every Pakistani bowlers to dust so now this guy and his ilks are posting Usain Bolt , Al bagdadi and Bin laden video that how they used to enjoy Waqar bowling 

[raki05]

8 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Whoa im shocked he didnt add me to his list yet 

Pakistani are good at making in to list you know ….. grooming list, terror list, beggar list, fixer list , chucker list so and so forth .

[Chaos]

15 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Pakistani are good at making in to list you know ….. grooming list, terror list, beggar list, fixer list , chucker list so and so forth .

oh yea. Beggars and terrorists they are. Man even african countries dont beg this much. Literally boot licking, like they used to do to their masters (british). Thank god we got seperated from those mullahdins.

 

[Chaos]

24 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Pakistani are good at making in to list you know ….. grooming list, terror list, beggar list, fixer list , chucker list so and so forth .

What u think of @Teengunalagaan raki? He talks about my tv a lot

[vvvslaxman]

11 hours ago, First class said:

We're talking about Waqar and some of you guys dragging in  Bumrah; for no reason . Waqar and Bumrah belong to a different era and usually we don't talk an ATG about a  cricketer until his career is finished. Bumrah is going through a purple patch and hopefully this will continue for years to come and if he remained fit and in form , he has a very good chance of ending up as an ATG bowler but his status at this point is not that of Waqar, Styne , Marshall and others, he has a long way to go. 

 

I understand , India never had any ATG fast bowler and Bumrah has got everyone excited and that's great for cricket in general, not just for Indians, but making him an ATG at this point is a stretch , take it easy guys. 

 

Let us discuss objectively

 

Waqar is definitely pakistan ATG as he is one of the three pacers who crossed 200 wicket mark in their history. No question about that.  But even if you include NZ and ENgland two of the poorest sides of the 90s (probably their lowest point) he has only 237 wickets if you remove Bangladesh/Zimbabwe/Srilanka wickets. 

 

Srilanka

 

I am going to use the window between 1990-2002 (roughly Waqar's whole career)

 

Most wickets against Bangladesh/SL/ZImbabwe during this period by pace bowlers. As you can see Waqar and Wasim top the char. 

Lot of bowlers who started in the 90s have decent average against these teams.  Just that they didn't get to play a lot against them.  So the skewed figures. If you look at the list  you will find Ambrose playing only 5 tests . Walsh not even that. Imagine Ambrose playing 27 tests against them. 

 

SO i am not sure Bumrah has to do a "lot more" to be ocmpared. He has done enough to be compared if you look at the quality of wickets objectively.

 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2025 by vvvslaxman

[raki05]

54 minutes ago, Chaos said:

What u think of @Teengunalagaan raki? He talks about my tv a lot

He likes my post just like you and put forward his points just like any of us. May be he is fond of your tv!!

[First class]

Let me put it again , what's Bumrah's bowling average against New Zealand ? 

Edited January 13, 2025 by First class

[singhvivek141]

1 minute ago, First class said:

Let me out it again , what's Bumrah's bowling average against New Zealand ? 

Lesser than what Waqar averaged against India.
 

[singhvivek141]

@raki05 and @Chaos
Are like Virender Sehwag and Harry Brook against the Pakistani Posters.
Smashing them for sixes and boundaries for their non-sensical comments.
 

[vvvslaxman]

20 minutes ago, First class said:

Let me put it again , what's Bumrah's bowling average against New Zealand ? 

 

His first few encounters were immediately after stress fracture injury. Besides you cannot compare this NZ with the one that Waqar played against. That was the worst NZ side ever. They played 81 lost 32 won 17 in the 90s. Compare that with current NZ . Played 54 won 28. More than 50% win. Plus they won WTC final. I even included his performance against NZ despite those were easy wickets. But he still took 136 wickets against ultra minnow teams of the 90s and early 2000s.

Edited January 13, 2025 by vvvslaxman

[vvvslaxman]

If Bumrha plays 25 tests against Ireland he would be looking at 350 wickets by now.

[First class]

4 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

His first few encounters were immediately after stress fracture injury. Besides you cannot compare this NZ with the one that Waqar played against. That was the worst NZ side ever. They played 81 lost 32 won 17 in the 90s. Compare that with current NZ . Played 54 won 28. More than 50% win. Plus they won WTC final. I even included his performance against NZ despite those were easy wickets. But he still took 136 wickets against ultra minnow teams of the 90s and early 2000s.

So every wickets Waqar took was against " weak" team and Bumrah against " strong " one. You need to educated yourself about cricket history , all test teams were much stronger than today;s test teams in Waqar's era. New Zealand lost more matches then due to the fact that other teams and their bowling were very strong .

 

Had Waqar was bowling to these low level batsmen Australian batters ( compared to all time great Australian team of 90s  ) like , Khwaja, Labu, Konstats , Mcsweeney , Marsh and out of form Smith , Waqar would have won the series single-handedly , which India lost 1-3 . 

 

But , having a high average against one team, doesn't make Bumrah a lesser bowler , he is a , no doubt is the best in the worlds ATM. 

Similarly Waqar had higher average against one of the all time great batting line up of Australia on 90s does not mean he was not an ATG bower. 

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, First class said:

So every wickets Waqar took was against " weak" team and Bumrah against " strong " one. You need to educated yourself about cricket history , all test teams were much stronger than today;s test teams in Waqar's era. New Zealand lost more matches then due to the fact that other teams and their bowling were very strong .

 

Had Waqar was bowling to these low level batsmen Australian batters ( compared to all time great Australian team of 90s  ) like , Khwaja, Labu, Konstats , Mcsweeney , Marsh and out of form Smith , Waqar would have won the series single-handedly , which India lost 1-3 . 

 

But , having a high average against one team, doesn't make Bumrah a lesser bowler , he is a , no doubt is the best in the worlds ATM. 

Similarly Waqar had higher average against one of the all time great batting line up of Australia on 90s does not mean he was not an ATG bower. 

 

You cannot possibly say Bangladesh who started playing tests in 2000, ZImbabwe who started playing tests in 1990s, SL who started playing more tests in the late 90s as stronger teams. Tell me who are the actual minnows in this era in terms of experience? I even excluded NZ/England who were at their rock bottom in their history. 

[vvvslaxman]

This is equivalent of Bumrah playing 10 tests against Afghanistan  15 tests against Ireland.

[First class]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Let us discuss objectively

 

Waqar is definitely pakistan ATG as he is one of the three pacers who crossed 200 wicket mark in their history. No question about that.  But even if you include NZ and ENgland two of the poorest sides of the 90s (probably their lowest point) he has only 237 wickets if you remove Bangladesh/Zimbabwe/Srilanka wickets. 

 

Srilanka

 

I am going to use the window between 1990-2002 (roughly Waqar's whole career)

 

Most wickets against Bangladesh/SL/ZImbabwe during this period by pace bowlers. As you can see Waqar and Wasim top the char. 

Lot of bowlers who started in the 90s have decent average against these teams.  Just that they didn't get to play a lot against them.  So the skewed figures. If you look at the list  you will find Ambrose playing only 5 tests . Walsh not even that. Imagine Ambrose playing 27 tests against them. 

 

SO i am not sure Bumrah has to do a "lot more" to be ocmpared. He has done enough to be compared if you look at the quality of wickets objectively.

 

 

 

1992 , Waqar missed the WC due to back injury  , recovered and toured England and for 5 test series and won it for Pakistan , England team had some of their ATG batters including Gooch and Gower and also had Atherton , Smith and lamb , not a bad team , much better than the current England team. 

 

Just look at the Zimbabwe line of during those days , it was Zimbabwe's all time great team , not the minnows we have now. 

 

Let's see what Bumrah does in coming series in England. 

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/pakistan-tour-of-england-1992-61462

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, First class said:

1992 , Waqar missed the WC due to back injury  , recovered and toured England and for 5 test series and won it for Pakistan , England team had some of their ATG batters including Gooch and Gower and also had Atherton , Smith and lamb , not a bad team , much better than the current England team. 

 

Just look at the Zimbabwe line of during those days , it was Zimbabwe's all time great team , not the minnows we have now. 

 

Let's see what Bumrah does in coming series in England. 

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/pakistan-tour-of-england-1992-61462

 

Even Kenya probably has an ATG team. That doesn't mean they were not minnows. Just because ZImbabwe beat Pakistan away from home in a series they were not great.

Zimbabwe  in their entire history has won just 3 away matches. Sure they won a few more home matches. But they were easy to bully back in those days. They were whitewashed in India by one of the worst Indian side

 

1998 vs Pakistan

2001 vs Bangladesh

2018 vs Bangladesh