Aurangzeb, Chhaava, Nagpur riots

[coffee_rules]

This week a lot of political activity regarding the Aurangzeb ki aulaad

 

- MH RW activists like Raja Singh  asking for Aurangzeb grave to  be demolished

 

- Fadnavis is sad to protect Aurang’s mazhar

 

 Waqf protest in Jantar zmantar 

- Riots in Nagpur based on rumors was Quran was desecrated by Hindus on Aurang’s mazhar

 

Owaisi and SP giving out statements. 
 

Indians liberals want to move on from events of medieval history, but hold on to alleged caste discrimination happening 10000s of years ago, 

[coffee_rules]

 

[Lone Wolf]

A movie on Timur will legit lead to Civil war in India.  Glad our historians never mentioned it a lot in our books.

Also people forget that Aurangzeb will come across as pretty liberal if they hear about Sultanate stuff.

 

Aurangzeb's grave is not even worthy of a King & is in a relatively useless town.  That's humiliation in itself...

 

 

[Teengunalagaan]

33 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

A movie on Timur will legit lead to Civil war in India.  Glad our historians never mentioned it a lot in our books.

Also people forget that Aurangzeb will come across as pretty liberal if they hear about Sultanate stuff.

 

Aurangzeb's grave is not even worthy of a King & is in a relatively useless town.  That's humiliation in itself...

 

 

No, it should be talked about, it should be included in the books. I would be happy if they can make a few more movies about these subjects, do not bury the history just because it doesn't suit a sect of people, never cede an inch, should the west stop talking about Hitler ? 

 

Leftists are the biggest hypocrites, whatever happened to freedom of speech, if you don't like it don't watch it. All this is fine till it suits your POV, but the moment it doesn't you are blaming a movie for violence, but the not vermin's who did it ? You are targeting an actor, are you inciting the same fate as what happened in the case of Nupur Sharma ? Don't think people are that stupid that they can't see right through your bullsh*t. These people are not liberals, they are the real radicals, who will not even have a second thought in whitewashing genocides if it suits their agenda.

 

[singhvivek141]

46 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

A movie on Timur will legit lead to Civil war in India.  Glad our historians never mentioned it a lot in our books.

Also people forget that Aurangzeb will come across as pretty liberal if they hear about Sultanate stuff.

 

Aurangzeb's grave is not even worthy of a King & is in a relatively useless town.  That's humiliation in itself...

 

Nazis committed one of the biggest crime in humanity. So much so that using "N" word itself in west is a a crime in its own form.

 

Compare it to our ancestors, who fought Atrocities even way bigger than Nazis and yet survived. Why our tale shouldn't be told to the world ?

 

Those who got scared/greedy and converted, they are weak. Bravehearts should be celebrated.

[Lone Wolf]

41 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

Nazis committed one of the biggest crime in humanity. So much so that using "N" word itself in west is a a crime in its own form.

 

Compare it to our ancestors, who fought Atrocities even way bigger than Nazis and yet survived. Why our tale shouldn't be told to the world ?

 

Those who got scared/greedy and converted, they are weak. Bravehearts should be celebrated.

Nah Indian history isn't for the faint hearted & our people are way too sensitive to be told the whole truth.  

 

We never had a spanish style revival or reconquista.  That's what you call an absolute resounding win of a civilization.

This is a 1000 year old trauma we are talking about.

It should be buried deep down & never spoken about again.

 

Chinese are scarred by a Century of humiliation & we can already multiply it by 10.  That's the impact we are talking about.

Timur's deed will give us a nationwide trauma throw in some Aibak and Bakhtiyar Khilji... People would start calling Aurangzeb as Sufi Saint. 

 

Only path is way forward.  Forget the past , learn from mistakes.  Adopt China model & find glory through your own hardwork.

 

 

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

59 minutes ago, Teengunalagaan said:

No, it should be talked about, it should be included in the books. I would be happy if they can make a few more movies about these subjects, do not bury the history just because it doesn't suit a sect of people, never cede an inch, should the west stop talking about Hitler ? 

 

Leftists are the biggest hypocrites, whatever happened to freedom of speech, if you don't like it don't watch it. All this is fine till it suits your POV, but the moment it doesn't you are blaming a movie for violence, but the not vermin's who did it ? You are targeting an actor, are you inciting the same fate as what happened in the case of Nupur Sharma ? Don't think people are that stupid that they can't see right through your bullsh*t. These people are not liberals, they are the real radicals, who will not even have a second thought in whitewashing genocides if it suits their agenda.

 

Nupur was done as soon as she crossed the red line & it went out of hands of BJP top brass once MEA was getting hounded by even friendly Arab states & they couldn't risk decades of Hardwork on a literal nobody.  An example was made out of her ... It was a PR disaster overall.

 

Freedom of Speech is a imaginary term in India with so much differences and fault lines within the country.

It can land you in a lot of trouble and government machinery can't help you much as well... And our laws are well...

Samay Raina is a shining example for you guys.

 

India is run by babus and policies are Dehat based... There are no ideals or principles.

 

[mishra]

14 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

 

This logic that it was "iqtedaar ki ladai" has been put in Pakistani textbooks to proove their people that Islamic rule had no religious persecution angle during Mughal and Islamic rules.

 

Everyone there has been told that they converted because Islam was so Good while Hinduism is evil.

 

For example: Only book a Muslim of Pakistan (Educated) has studied from Hindi literature in Pakistan is Munshi Premchand's "Go Daan" which is actually a centred on caste System and misuse of orthodox social practices, This then acts as feeder to why Hindus so willingly converted to Islam and there was no persecution or genocide or force or State policy used

 

 

Edited March 20 by mishra

[Teengunalagaan]

22 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Nupur was done as soon as she crossed the red line & it went out of hands of BJP top brass once MEA was getting hounded by even friendly Arab states & they couldn't risk decades of Hardwork on a literal nobody.  An example was made out of her ... It was a PR disaster overall.

 

Freedom of Speech is a imaginary term in India with so much differences and fault lines within the country.

It can land you in a lot of trouble and government machinery can't help you much as well... And our laws are well...

Samay Raina is a shining example for you guys.

 

India is run by babus and policies are Dehat based... There are no ideals or principles.

 

If anyone thinks that government is on your side is having the biggest delusion of his life, and that cuts across political parties, now matter who is in power. FOS is always a fight against the govt, doesn't matter if you are in the 1st world or 3rd world, govts will always try to cut your freedom as much as they can, only the degree of interference & modus operandi differs among the developed and less developed world.

 

I am talking about the leftists who portray themselves as the champions of FOS only till it aligns with with their views. Do I support protests against Padmavat or Pathan because it hurt your sentiments, absolutely no, take your fragile sentiments and shove it up your f*cking ass. But these hypocrites are now using a movie to justify the violence and that is a problem, this is a pattern they use to change the discourse. It was not Nupur Sharma who paid a heavy price, it was Kanhaiya lal, BJP would have handled the issue from geo political POV and within the party, but they would not have a nut job go and murder someone because some religious sentiments were hurt, it was an incitement of violence, same modus operandi today has started with blaming Vicky kaushal, it doesn't necessarily have to be Vicky, he is from a privilege class, he is well protected, but it takes a one nut job to lose his sh*t and for another Kanhaiya lal to happen.

 

Talking about history and acknowledging it, and moving forward to progress are not mutually exclusive events, if that was the case than history as a subject shouldn't even exist. I don't give a f*ck about Aurangzed or his grave, but this violence and the discourse that has been set to not speak against the history and atrocities committed by Islamic rulers, has a deep psyche of communal divide and pride in the violence committed against Hindus, it tells you where the priority of some people lie, just ignoring and wishing it away, won't make it go away, it will keep rearing it's ugly head in one way or other. If you have cancer, you treat it, you do not let it fester. 

 

If 80% citizens of the country cannot even talk and acknowledge their history, than what progress are we looking at ? What society are we looking at ? China can bury everything under the rug, but you can't do that in a democracy.

 

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

Nupur was done as soon as she crossed the red line & it went out of hands of BJP top brass once MEA was getting hounded by even friendly Arab states & they couldn't risk decades of Hardwork on a literal nobody.  An example was made out of her ... It was a PR disaster overall.

 

Freedom of Speech is a imaginary term in India with so much differences and fault lines within the country.

It can land you in a lot of trouble and government machinery can't help you much as well... And our laws are well...

Samay Raina is a shining example for you guys.

 

India is run by babus and policies are Dehat based... There are no ideals or principles.

 

There is no reconciliation with knowing the truth. You can’t reconcilliate based on lies. Our history is a big fat lie. Let’s acknowledge the real history, accept the fact that a lot of injustices happened and then we can move on and look for peace in future. 

[Lone Wolf]

13 minutes ago, Teengunalagaan said:

If anyone thinks that government is on your side is having the biggest delusion of his life, and that cuts across political parties, now matter who is in power. FOS is always a fight against the govt, doesn't matter if you are in the 1st world or 3rd world, govts will always try to cut your freedom as much as they can, only the degree of interference & modus operandi differs among the developed and less developed world.

 

I am talking about the leftists who portray themselves as the champions of FOS only till it aligns with with their views. Do I support protests against Padmavat or Pathan because it hurt your sentiments, absolutely no, take your fragile sentiments and shove it up your f*cking ass. But these hypocrites are now using a movie to justify the violence and that is a problem, this is a pattern they use to change the discourse. It was not Nupur Sharma who paid a heavy price, it was Kanhaiya lal, BJP would have handled the issue from geo political POV and within the party, but they would not have a nut job go and murder someone because some religious sentiments were hurt, it was an incitement of violence, same modus operandi today has started with blaming Vicky kaushal, it doesn't necessarily have to be Vicky, he is from a privilege class, he is well protected, but it takes a one nut job to lose his sh*t and for another Kanhaiya lal to happen.

 

Talking about history and acknowledging it, and moving forward to progress are not mutually exclusive events, if that was the case than history as a subject shouldn't even exist. I don't give a f*ck about Aurangzed or his grave, but this violence and the discourse that has been set to not speak against the history and atrocities committed by Islamic rulers, has a deep psyche of communal divide and pride in the violence committed against Hindus, it tells you where the priority of some people lie, just ignoring and wishing it away, won't make it go away, it will keep rearing it's ugly head in one way or other. If you have cancer, you treat it, you do not let it fester. 

 

If 80% citizens of the country cannot even talk and acknowledge their history, than what progress are we looking at ? What society are we looking at ? China can bury everything under the rug, but you can't do that in a democracy.

 

You are right it is a tough pill to swallow but we have to find a way to coexist with around 30 crore Muslims...  No other nation on the planet has such numbers...Neighborhood has around 25 cr in Pak & 20 in BD.

That makes roughly 75cr in the subcontinent alone.

 

It's the ultimate blackpill as a country to be in this position.  Options are limited to begin with.

 

Course correction can only happen in future if some things go out way.

 

[mishra]

11 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

You are right it is a tough pill to swallow but we have to find a way to coexist with around 30 crore Muslims...  No other nation on the planet has such numbers...Neighborhood has around 25 cr in Pak & 20 in BD.

That makes roughly 75cr in the subcontinent alone.

 

It's the ultimate blackpill as a country to be in this position.  Options are limited to begin with.

 

Course correction can only happen in future if some things go out way.

 

Muslims can not coexist with anyone including themselves in current style democracy as there will always be a significant mass which will focus on impelemntation of purity of religion among rest of non practing population.

 

Its not that othere religion dont have that many significant mass focussing on their version of implementation of purity of religion. Its just that ones focussing on purity of Implementation of Islam, Significant number of them are ready to kill or die for the cause.

Edited March 20 by mishra

[Lone Wolf]

13 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

There is no reconciliation with knowing the truth. You can’t reconcilliate based on lies. Our history is a big fat lie. Let’s acknowledge the real history, accept the fact that a lot of injustices happened and then we can move on and look for peace in future. 

And there in lies the risks in more violence & more bloodshed.  This country cannot handle it yet.

I wish there was anything noteworthy to learn from the past but there isn't much.  Reasons dhoondo ge toh Prithviraj se le kar, Rana Sangha & even Rama Raya sabko blame karoge.

 

History always favors the victors not victims.  Hindus were the victims.  They had it coming just as Native Americans or Aboriginals had it coming.   Technology tactics and modern warfare... These are only things worth learning.   You can't win without modernization.  Our ancestors & country paid the ultimate price.

 

As Maulana Rizzu Symonds says... Ya toh win hai ya toh l*un hai.

Truer words were never spoken.

[Lone Wolf]

4 minutes ago, mishra said:

Muslims can not coexist with anyone including themselves in current style democracy as there will always be a significant mass which will focus on impelemntation of purity of religion among rest of non practing population.

 

Its not that othere religion dont have that many significant mass focussing on their version of implementation of purity of religion. Its just that ones focussing on purity of Implementation of Islam, Significant number of them are ready to kill or die for the cause.

It's a faith based on a book written 1400 years ago ... What else you can expect?

 

As mentioned numbers are just way too many in Subcontinent & there is no reforming them as of yet.

Only economic boom,  poverty alleviation & proper education will pave the way.

 

In 15 years time Madarsas will be a thing of the past in India if all things go well.  As economy booms things will start to change.

Then next generation will be ready to adopt modern ideas.

 

Being a non homogenous, democratic country this is longer but tougher path.

There is a reason communists always laughed at the thought of a democratic India that it was a failed experiment to begin with.  Only time will tell they were right or wrong.

There is a saying India has a tendency to suprise even strongest pessimists and optimists within a day.

That's how we roll.

[Teengunalagaan]

19 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

You are right it is a tough pill to swallow but we have to find a way to coexist with around 30 crore Muslims...  No other nation on the planet has such numbers...Neighborhood has around 25 cr in Pak & 20 in BD.

That makes roughly 75cr in the subcontinent alone.

 

It's the ultimate blackpill as a country to be in this position.  Options are limited to begin with.

 

Course correction can only happen in future if some things go out way.

 

Yes we have to, and we already do. One of best friends is a muslim and he worries about the same things as we do, he aspires about the same things we all do, not everyone is a radical.

 

However, the point is no religion has every been great all have had it's share of issues, but other religions have reformed over a period of time, I find very hard to believe Islam at it's core will ever see reforms, not in our lifetime.

 

The problem is not just a section of Islamists, and but also some ultra leftist retart*d Hindus in India, and other nut jobs globally, but we need to keep talking about it, discuss it, create awareness, call it out, that is only way things can improve.

[mishra]

14 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

 

As mentioned numbers are just way too many in Subcontinent & there is no reforming them as of yet.

Only economic boom,  poverty alleviation & proper education will pave the way.

 

In 15 years time Madarsas will be a thing of the past in India if all things go well.  As economy booms things will start to change.

Then next generation will be ready to adopt modern ideas.

 

 

No, it does not work in Democracy. Period. No amount of education or economic boom help that (US Muslim on average earns 30 times more than subcontinet Muslim, Makes no change in mindset, Its just US State is so powerfull vs numbers of Islamic followers. UK is f**ked) . 

 

Middle East model where Mosques and its priest report to State (King) and States (Kings) Agenda is pushed by Priest/Mosques is only way forward. Else it will always be a case of tail wagging the dog

Edited March 20 by mishra

[Lone Wolf]

33 minutes ago, mishra said:

No, it does not work in Democracy. Period. No amount of education or economic boom help that (US Muslim on average earns 30 times more than subcontinet Muslim, Makes no change in mindset, Its just US State is so powerfull vs numbers of Islamic followers. UK is f**ked) . 

 

Middle East model where Mosques and its priest report to State (King) and States (Kings) Agenda is pushed by Priest/Mosques is only way forward. Else it will always be a case of tail wagging the dog

Middle East model is basically money with Islam as only option.  They are state sponsored Wahabi heartland.  What kind of moderate stuff you can expect there?  I agree it is better arrangement than in SC but we have to perfect it.

 

That's not the same sh*t as   moderate Islam in a booming Indian economy in a Secular or Hindu dominated India.

 

UK is a sh*r example basically Desi Muslims doing Desi sh*t that we see here.  Rot starts in Madarsas.

We would do it differently 

 

[mishra]

16 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Middle East model is basically money with Islam as only option.  They are state sponsored Wahabi heartland.  What kind of moderate stuff you can expect there?  I agree it is better arrangement than in SC but we have to perfect it.

 

That's not the same sh*t as   moderate Islam in a booming Indian economy in a Secular or Hindu dominated India.

 

UK is a sh*r example basically Desi Muslims doing Desi sh*t that we see here.  Rot starts in Madarsas.

We would do it differently 

 

Again read my point.

 

In every religion there will be people unhappy about adaptation/practice of purity of their religion. Problem with Islam is that those people are ready to die or kill.

 

Economic prosperity has nothing to do with religious mindset on purity. US example looked far fetched, Look it from other way round. Our SC ST population should be twice more radical than Muslims of India as they are economically half prosperous to them Muslims. So this "Churan" of economics is by Libtrads who just try to portay them as victim

 

In Middle East, where there is no Arab Spring , People are free to practice whatever religion they want with little crime in those countries. Its where Mosque are not in control of State, thats where you get fu**ked for being non Muslim. Whole religion of Islam is designed to control population for the King.

 

So what should happen in India. Clue lies here. Chinese CCP took Mosques under their control. Initially it was bitter experience but they got peace. Take mosques in autocratic control of State.

 

PS : there are many mid east states say Morroco who are okie under king without being rich

Edited March 20 by mishra

[Lone Wolf]

12 minutes ago, mishra said:

Again read my point.

 

In every religion there will be people unhappy about adaptation/practice of purity of their religion. Problem with Islam is that those people are ready to die or kill.

 

Economic prosperity has nothing to do with religious mindset on purity. US example looked far fetched, Look it from other way round. Our SC ST population should be twice more radical than Muslims of India as they are economically half prosperous to them Muslims. So this "Churan" of economics is by Libtrads who just try to portay them as victim

 

In Middle East, where there is no Arab Spring , People are free to practice whatever religion they want with little crime in those countries. Its where Mosque are not in control of State, thats where you get fu**ked for being non Muslim. Whole religion of Islam is designed to control population for the King.

 

So what should happen in India. Clue lies there. Chinese CCP took Mosques under their control. Initially it was bitter experience but they got peace.

While The Chinese CCP model is literal perfection it is only designed to operate in a place which is secluded and ethnically different and most importantly population is negligible..  Uyghur in Xinjiang are negligible in numbers & secluded.

 

Further Chinese economic and geopolitical might is light years ahead of us.  You will be surprised the sh*t Xi Jinping can get away with.   Nupur would be on a Cabinet level position there saying the same sh*t she said here & nobody would bat an eyelid.

And obviously one party Communism in a homogeneous Han society.

But even CCP will struggle with controlling 30 crore Muslims living on their Eastern mainland.

It will be whole different equation whatsoever.

 

There is no example whatsoever to what India has to deal with that too in a democracy with limited geopolitical leverage.

Edited March 20 by Lone Wolf

[Teengunalagaan]

11 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Further Chinese economic and geopolitical might is light years ahead of us. 

Absolutely, for India the top most priority should be to reach at minimum $10k per capita income, everything else right now should be secondary.

 

I think BJP and Modi did not go soft, but I feel they had a reality check post the farmers protest in 2021, the economic might is the most important thing in the world if you have to make bold moves you need geopolitical might, that's why the focus of the government needs to be economic growth, the social reforms will become hell of a lot easier... like UCC