Indian Air Force - Depleting squadrons & alarmingly poor fill rate

[Number]

For a 2 front war IAF has a requirement of 42 functioning squadrons (a squadron is 12-18 jets).

Currently it is working with 31 and around 22 are in war ready functioning state.

Experts are warning that worst is yet to come when Migs will be phased out by the end of this decade.

 

IAF requested govt for 126 Rafales but they purchased 36 and put rest of the money in HAL's LCA program.

 

IAF chief has often publicly criticised HAL's delivery rate. HAL says it is because IAF keeps requesting for more features, then IAF says that all those are standard requirements of today's time which have evolved since the time of order.

 

Pakistanis will start getting J-35 a 5th gen jet from China from this december. While HAL's AMCA is scheduled to give us our 5th gen jet by 2035 

 

This is truly a sad state of affairs and I believe as a country which can be in a conflict any instant, we should break the bank and get the Airforce whatever it wants.

4 squadrons of F-35 or SU-57 and additional Rafales are the need of the hour. Nothing can be bigger than national security.

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2025 by Number

[deathmonger]

13 minutes ago, Number said:

For a 2 front war IAF has a requirement of 42 functioning squadrons (a squadron is 12-18 jets).

Currently it is working with 31 and around 22 are in war ready functioning state.

Experts are warning that worst is yet to come when Migs will be phased out by the end of this decade.

 

IAF requested govt for 126 Rafales but they purchased 36 and put rest of the money in HAL's LCA program.

 

IAF chief has often publicly criticised HAL's delivery rate. HAL says it is because IAF keeps requesting for more features, then IAF says that all those are standard requirements of today's time which have evolved since the time of order.

 

Pakistanis will start getting J-35 a 5th gen jet from China from this december. While HAL's AMCA is scheduled to give us our 5th gen jet by 2035 

 

This is truly a sad state of affairs and I believe as a country which can be in a conflict any instant, we should break the bank and get the Airforce whatever it wants.

4 squadrons of F-35 or SU-57 and additional Rafales are the need of the hour. Nothing can be bigger than national security.

 

 

 

Get the Su57s with ToT to tide us till AMCA arrives. Instead of Rafale expedite TejasMk2 which is basically a mini Rafale but way cheaper. Mk2 with Gandiva is super potent.

[EnterTheVoid]

What is India's response to Pakistan getting a 5th generation fighter?

What are our options?

[G_B_]

I think we are expecting tejas mk1a (30 a year, 83 on order, will rise to 150 imo) and 12 mki a year to join.( they will extend program under supee sukhoi). So we are gearing up 40 jets a year.

 

Blunt truth though. In 2.5 front war missiles from brahmos to pralay to shourya will be enough for pakistan. 99% of pak population and assets within 300km.

 

If anything india needs to focus on artillary (pinaka zorawar) + offensive missiles + air defence+ drones.

 

Ghatak (swift) program is way more important than tejas...

 

This 42 squadran thinking is from another era. Ditto tanks. 

 

[rangeelaraja]

India should focus on building greater cutting edge missile capabilities ( both offensive and for air defense ) - greater range, greater speed and really ramp up manufacturing pace - making several 100 a year. i read we are  already doing that with Brahmos. 
 

I would neither purchase F35 or Su57 - F35 will come with too many strings attached and lack of autonomy and Su57 has a very large RCS for what is touted as a a stealth jet - it is pricey and will likely have low service rate. 
 

I would get atleast 3 more squadrons of Rafale and ramp up Tejas. 

 

Edited May 25, 2025 by rangeelaraja

[G_B_]

More than su57 its the af51f1 engine that india needs.

 

India has other things. We need a good engine for propulsion.

 

 

[MechEng]

Adding to our missile capabilities, we need to amp up UAV R&D to compensate for staff shortage in airforce (if that happens).

[raki05]

European+American countries will never share source code less said about engine technology. France has betrayed us many time inspite of promising it….. American + European plain though potent but of no use as without source code we cant integrate our potent missiles to Rafel or F35 or whatever. In that regards SU-57 sounds promising, if i was decision maker i will never go for european+ American planes , Even if russian planes lacks in stealth but with better missile system integration we can make it more dangerous and btw most of the air war is also decided by air to air missile it carries than the dog fight and chasing.

[deathmonger]

8 minutes ago, raki05 said:

European+American countries will never share source code less said about engine technology. France has betrayed us many time inspite of promising it….. American + European plain though potent but of no use as without source code we cant integrate our potent missiles to Rafel or F35 or whatever. In that regards SU-57 sounds promising, if i was decision maker i will never go for european+ American planes , Even if russian planes lacks in stealth but with better missile system integration we can make it more dangerous and btw most of the air war is also decided by air to air missile it carries than the dog fight and chasing.

Yeah Su57 just temporary till AMCA comes into flight.

[deathmonger]

1 hour ago, G_B_ said:

I think we are expecting tejas mk1a (30 a year, 83 on order, will rise to 150 imo) and 12 mki a year to join.( they will extend program under supee sukhoi). So we are gearing up 40 jets a year.

 

Blunt truth though. In 2.5 front war missiles from brahmos to pralay to shourya will be enough for pakistan. 99% of pak population and assets within 300km.

 

If anything india needs to focus on artillary (pinaka zorawar) + offensive missiles + air defence+ drones.

 

Ghatak (swift) program is way more important than tejas...

 

This 42 squadran thinking is from another era. Ditto tanks. 

 

Ghatak also uses Kaveri so no engine bottleneck either.

[deathmonger]

I think we well get the jet engine/AMCA in next 10-15 years.

 

Except for jets, we are quite advanced in making other stuff indigenously - missiles, aircraft carriers, SSBNs etc.

[Lone Wolf]

Can we aggressively push for more Rafales with obviously pushing that French give us Source code?

 

Otherwise they will keep charging us hefty price everytime we try to integrate it with our local AD's or radar system & stuff or any kinda modifications.

 

AMCA and Kaveri engine will require direct PMO level danda and enormous funding to accelerate the program.  Current timeframe is too slow.  I agree that we should not yet push for Su57E & we were never interested in that junk F35.. thanks to Trump we have solid excuse now to not to go for it.

 

Until then go for GE404 GE414 engines... Beg/steal whatever you can do for Tejas Mk1a and MK2..  that's a priority call

 

 

Edited May 25, 2025 by Lone Wolf

[G_B_]

We need ghatak to be 500 km, ghatak 2 to be 1500km and ghatak 3 to be 3000km.

 

The aim should be to produce ghatak 3 which has a very low radar cross section , can super cruise at mach 5 and can carry 2000km hypersonic missiles and can be launched by sea or land for around 40 to 50 million in todays money by 2040.

 

This type of tech is going to redefine technology and make fighter jets redundant. 

 

Its same with lots of things like tanks to self propelled artillary. However with a typical gen 5 jet costing north of 150 million. The savings are immense.

 

 

[G_B_]

8 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Can we aggressively push for more Rafales with obviously pushing that French give us Source code?

 

Otherwise they will keep charging us hefty price everytime we try to integrate it with our local AD's or radar system & stuff or any kinda modifications.

 

AMCA and Kaveri engine will require direct PMO level danda and enormous funding to accelerate the program.  Current timeframe is too slow.  I agree that we should not yet push for Su57E & we were never interested in that junk F35.. thanks to Trump we have solid excuse now to not to go for it.

 

Until then go for GE404 GE414 engines... Beg/steal whatever you can do for Tejas Mk1a and MK2..  that's a priority call

 

 

 

Its better to upgrade mki with a51 engine and back ourselves with radar and armament.

 

Su57 offers marginal gains.

[deathmonger]

38 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Can we aggressively push for more Rafales with obviously pushing that French give us Source code?

 

Otherwise they will keep charging us hefty price everytime we try to integrate it with our local AD's or radar system & stuff or any kinda modifications.

 

AMCA and Kaveri engine will require direct PMO level danda and enormous funding to accelerate the program.  Current timeframe is too slow.  I agree that we should not yet push for Su57E & we were never interested in that junk F35.. thanks to Trump we have solid excuse now to not to go for it.

 

Until then go for GE404 GE414 engines... Beg/steal whatever you can do for Tejas Mk1a and MK2..  that's a priority call

 

 

Focus should more be on TejasMk2s than Rafale cause they are both 4.5 gen.

 

TejasMk2 might be inferior to Rafale but:

1) way cheaper. Five Mk2s can be bought for the cost of one Rafale

2) better for India in that it can integrate with everything

[Lone Wolf]

2 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

Focus should more be on TejasMk2s than Rafale cause they are both 4.5 gen.

 

TejasMk2 might be inferior to Rafale but:

1) way cheaper. Five Mk2s can be bought for the cost of one Rafale

2) better for India in that it can integrate with everything

I would go for both rather than hedging my bets on Su57E or F35.

 

We need more Rafales make no mistake and if any opening comes

where we can get them sooner like unconfirmed reports of Indonesia ditching 6 billion dollars worth deal.. that's when we should go for it with obvious emphasis on getting the source code.

 

MK2 is still 5 years away if we are looking at it realistically. 

 

 

[singhvivek141]

If I am not wrong...we have already ordered 2 additional squadrons of Rafale...though for Navy purposes.

 

SU-57 seems a better option, simply coz US will never share tech with us, and NATO countries can get pressurized by US to do the same. Though there were reports that IAF considered SU-57, unfit for their purposes. Maybe if Russia allows us to modify things as per the need then talks might happen.

 

As long as BJP is in power, I expect the defence system funding to be sustainable. If our public behave stupidly the way they have done in 2024, our Armed forces can get the setback by several decades.

Edited May 25, 2025 by singhvivek141

[EnterTheVoid]

 

[Number]

US is ready to sell F-35 but seems like IAF is a bit skeptical as they have never seen a Lockheed Martin platform in the history.

 

Su-57 looks like viable option. We already have Su-30 and have integrated so many indigenous systems into it. but Russia is facing severe sanctions and it's orders are expected to be significantly delayed.

 

 

[singhvivek141]

32 minutes ago, Number said:

US is ready to sell F-35 but seems like IAF is a bit skeptical as they have never seen a Lockheed Martin platform in the history.

 

Su-57 looks like viable option. We already have Su-30 and have integrated so many indigenous systems into it. but Russia is facing severe sanctions and it's orders are expected to be significantly delayed.

 

I think the trip of Doval to Russia is on discussing the aspects of S-400/S-500 and SU-57 only.

Russia needs manpower to ramp up the production of military equipments..India has that.