Why do we have so many strokeless/ tuktuk batsmen in the test line up in the IPL era?

[goose]

to end the superstar culture

[Sooda]

On 11/21/2025 at 1:58 PM, vvvslaxman said:

But you have to see how Stubbs batted. He just couldn't get to grips with pitch on the same surface. That is called assessing conditions.  If 2 more guys had batted exactly like Sundar we would have walked this target.  He had a control percentage of 88. His role was to keep wicket sfrom falling. But if you keep losing from other end that is not his fault. You are not up against time here. You have 3 whole days left. That is exactly how Bavuma batted. He made runs. If you can't even defend how can you attack on a difficult pitch.

 

Given our generally poor defensive technique and skill at aggressive batting- at least in theory - on that pitch it may well have been easier to chase that target down if we did attack. On a pitch like that a ball pitches and it could do anything can't hang back and defend. Sundar was an exception and arguably he should have shown a bit more intent 

[vvvslaxman]

20 minutes ago, Sooda said:

 

Given our generally poor defensive technique and skill at aggressive batting- at least in theory - on that pitch it may well have been easier to chase that target down if we did attack. On a pitch like that a ball pitches and it could do anything can't hang back and defend. Sundar was an exception and arguably he should have shown a bit more intent 

 

WHen the ball is turning square for like it did for Harmer attacking will only accelerate your demise.  ESpecially when the bowler hits the in between length with in out field.  You need to have sweep shot in your armoury. We don't have anyone who sweeps the ball with any authority.  Pant did try. He just couldn't.   Sundar did try to slog against NZ towards the end when he was with tail. Got cleaned up as pitch was doing all kind of tricks. 

[vvvslaxman]

SA put on a masterclass of grinding the opposition to dust. Once team is weary and nowhere to run they pressed the gas and obliterated us. This was our method too not long ago. Suddenly these "intent" merchants without any defensive technique try to hit their way out. We saw what happened with England. They were the one bragging about "intent". Australia without talking about implemented it. You do not allow opposition to get into the game with reckles gay abandon shots. It worked for Dravi, Pujara, Murali Vijay. jaiswal after a cheap dismissal against England showed a lot of composure in the subsequent knocks before exploding. ENded up with 712 runs.  Now atleast 2 or 3 times he got out first or second over of the innings trying to play away from the body.  

[Lord]

more of ability issue than approach issue

[vvvslaxman]

7 minutes ago, Lord said:

more of ability issue than approach issue

One has to weigh the percentage given the conditions. If the risk factor is 80% on a turning wicket you wait for absolute crap deliveries. Till then you have to back your defense. That is the traditional way. 

[maniac]

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

SA put on a masterclass of grinding the opposition to dust. Once team is weary and nowhere to run they pressed the gas and obliterated us. This was our method too not long ago. Suddenly these "intent" merchants without any defensive technique try to hit their way out. We saw what happened with England. They were the one bragging about "intent". Australia without talking about implemented it. You do not allow opposition to get into the game with reckles gay abandon shots. It worked for Dravi, Pujara, Murali Vijay. jaiswal after a cheap dismissal against England showed a lot of composure in the subsequent knocks before exploding. ENded up with 712 runs.  Now atleast 2 or 3 times he got out first or second over of the innings trying to play away from the body.  

how many players are capable of playing a knock like Jansen in current Indian line up?

 

Jansen is actually a better hitter than Dube who is probably the most important hitter in the scheme of things for us.

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, maniac said:

how many players are capable of playing a knock like Jansen in current Indian line up?

 

Jansen is actually a better hitter than Dube who is probably the most important hitter in the scheme of things for us.

Nitish Reddy did at Perth and at the MCG. He could smash the tired bowlers. BEcause we ground them to dust at the start,. Then Gill did at the Edgbaston. Sundar at Oval.

Edited November 24, 2025 by vvvslaxman

[maniac]

Just now, vvvslaxman said:

Nitish Reddy did at Perth and at the MCG. He could smash the tired bowlers. BEcause we ground them to dust at the start

Bro Jansen can hit 80M 6s against express pace. His mistimed shots also clear the boundary lol. Pls don’t compare him with our “allrounders”.

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, maniac said:

Bro Jansen can hit 80M 6s against express pace. His mistimed shots also clear the boundary lol. Pls don’t compare him with our “allrounders”.

 

Sundar smashed them. How many times Jansen has done that? He did it because Indai was already down and out. HE didn't do much in the first Test.

[maniac]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Sundar smashed them. How many times Jansen has done that? He did it because Indai was already down and out. HE didn't do much in the first Test.

Jansen got SA over the line vs Pak in the Pak tour of SA game too batting with Rabada.

 

i have seen him score 20 ball 50s in Australia.

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, maniac said:

Jansen got SA over the line vs Pak in the Pak tour of SA game too batting with Rabada.

 

i have seen him score 20 ball 50s in Australia.

 

 

 

Yea..But didn't help in 2024 final though. When you are already in commanding position you score quickly like we did at Edgbaston, oval.  headingley. Our top order repeatedly fails with 3 rank tailenders. So India cannot show kitchen sink attitude.  as you could collapse.

[tapandrun]

2 hours ago, maniac said:

how many players are capable of playing a knock like Jansen in current Indian line up?

 

Jansen is actually a better hitter than Dube who is probably the most important hitter in the scheme of things for us.

Jansen has long levers and v.big reach , he has good good ability to bat and hit big 6s due to it. The thing is he does not have batter's mind-set.

So one day he will hit every thing for 6s and as a bowler you would not know where to bowl to him can not bowl bouncer as he is too tall, can not bowl yorker unless it perfect yorker if its not then he can hit it for 6 and for spinner he has v.big reach can sweep a spinner even when the ball is in their hand 

 

If he was in Ind they would have started calling him an allrounder. for SA he is still a bowler who can bat a bit.

 

Apart from Ind bowlers all are capable hitters. 

 

Ind has no better option than dube when it comes to brute power and you need this. Ind cricketing system does not understand that hence Ind has not produced a proper power hitter or a finisher in t20s

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[maniac]

Kuldeep Yadav played frickin 134 balls on the 3rd day to score “19” runs  WTF did it accomplish?

[tapandrun]

31 minutes ago, maniac said:

Kuldeep Yadav played frickin 134 balls on the 3rd day to score “19” runs  WTF did it accomplish?

He just has 2 shots cover drive and flick on on-side and those two without any power behind it.

 

 

 

 

[maniac]

2 hours ago, tapandrun said:

He just has 2 shots cover drive and flick on on-side and those two without any power behind it.

 

 

 

 

It’s ok if he can be a decent blocker in test cricket. He is primarily a strike bowler. 1 exception per line up allowed. However my god this guy is an all format player and not a test specialist, he could have easily put some effort to improve some strokeplay for T20 and Lois   Still nearly 150 balls for 19 runs is too much that too on a 3rd day.

Edited November 26, 2025 by maniac

[vvvslaxman]

28 minutes ago, maniac said:

It’s ok if he can be a decent blocker in test cricket. He is primarily a strike bowler. 1 exception per line up allowed. However my god this guy is an all format player and not a test specialist, he could have easily put some effort to improve some strokeplay for T20 and Lois   Still nearly 150 balls for 19 runs is too much that too on a 3rd day.

 

You are sounding like Gambhir lol YOu want another all rounder? :) Wrist spinners are rare. We have to back him.  Yes batting and fielding have to be improved by them.But they were never decent batsmen even in domestic. What does that say about top order batsmen who couldn't bat 150 ball. We are spoilt by Ashwin's contribution down the order. 

 

Most runs at no.8 position. with 4 centuries. HE scores at a strike rate of 60. HE is irreplaceable on so many counts. He provides tips to fellow spinners. He comes up with ideas. Plus he bats well in crunch situation. It is like we lost 2 players at the same time. 

 

KD is not such a doofus though. He did save us a game against England with bat.  He has a lot of room for improvement though given that Siraj and Bumrah are walking wickets.

 

[tapandrun]

1 hour ago, maniac said:

It’s ok if he can be a decent blocker in test cricket. He is primarily a strike bowler. 1 exception per line up allowed. However my god this guy is an all format player and not a test specialist, he could have easily put some effort to improve some strokeplay for T20 and Lois   Still nearly 150 balls for 19 runs is too much that too on a 3rd day.

even in test inability to score runs and consuming more balls without ensuing a draw is big -ive, this will always lead to giving a smaller target to opp. side which will not be under pressure and can play accordingly or with batter capable of scoring quick can chase down such targets easily