Why do we have so many strokeless/ tuktuk batsmen in the test line up in the IPL era?

[maniac]

Exceptions to the rule- Jaiswal, Rishabh Pant

 

 moderate exception that can go either ways- Shubman Gill (I enjoy watching him bat when in full flow but can also be tuk tuk at times) so I will put him in both lists.

 

Axar Patel= clutch but very hacky lol

 

apart from that look at the batting resources in and around the side.

 

KL Rahul

Washington Sundar

Ravindra Jadeja

Devdutt Paddikal

Dhruv Jurel

Sai Sudarshan

Shubman Gill

Nitish Reddy

Kuldeep Yadav

Jasprit Bumrah (some tailenders like Rabada, Shaheen, Boult, Starc etc are at least entertaining tullas)

Siraj (comedy batting but that’s not good)

Prasidh- typical 70-80s tailender 

Sarfaraz- now this guy had high strikerate but was very ugly batsman to watch. Kinda like Kedar Jadhav. He is not even picked for IPL lol.
 

where is our Harry Brook, Jamie Smith?

 

also effective <> entertaining so spare  me the stats .

 

surprised how much lack of x factor our test batting exists in the era of IPL. It’s like watching paint dry. Remove Jaiswal and Pant it will be like nails on a chalkboard.

Edited November 20, 2025 by maniac

[sage]

our cricketing eco system right from domestic to the ad industries incentivise accumulators that can maintain good averages

[vvvslaxman]

You can deal with this by just checking cricinfo every  1 hour instead of watching it lol. I like watching hard grind like Jaddu and SUndar did at Old trafford. I am saturated with six  a minute in IPL and other T20 matches.  ONly because of stupid batting by SMith and Brook India won at Edgbaston.  Only because of Pant's hoick at the MCG we lost. This is a double edged sword.  You could lose a test because of one stupid shot.

[Lord]

Quote

where is our Harry Brook, Jamie Smith?

 

Not sure Bazball is the template to follow. Let's see how they do in the Ashes.

 

Current WTC champs SA also have lot of so call dour batsmen. Primary requirement is still the ability to bat long.

[maniac]

30 minutes ago, sage said:

our cricketing eco system right from domestic to the ad industries incentivise accumulators that can maintain good averages

Rohit, Kohli, Ashwin that’s retirement of 3 good exciting test batsmen.

 

Iyer is a good strokemaker and even though he would flop in SENA anyways, he was good to watch.

 

Rahane I will put him in the Gill category, can fit in both lists.

 

Pujara was super effective but boring, tuk tuk and strokless but now we have 7-8 Pujara’s

[AKane]

30 minutes ago, Lord said:

Current WTC champs SA also have lot of so call dour batsmen. Primary requirement is still the ability to bat long.

I don't know man -Very few draws nowadays unless weather is a factor. And matches last at most 4 days, usually ending in 3 odd days or even lesser.

 

Batsmen these days are dour but they don't bat long. 

Edited November 20, 2025 by AKane

[Lord]

9 minutes ago, AKane said:

I don't know man -Very few draws nowadays unless weather is a factor. And matches last at most 4 days, usually ending in 3 odd days or even lesser.

 

Batsmen these days are dour but they don't bat long. 

 

Pitches are tougher these days. T20 effect is still there in most batsmen. So they easily get frustrated.

[vvvslaxman]

54 minutes ago, maniac said:

Rohit, Kohli, Ashwin that’s retirement of 3 good exciting test batsmen.

 

Iyer is a good strokemaker and even though he would flop in SENA anyways, he was good to watch.

 

Rahane I will put him in the Gill category, can fit in both lists.

 

Pujara was super effective but boring, tuk tuk and strokless but now we have 7-8 Pujara’s

 

We saw Rohit's "exciting cricket" against Matt henry. On a spin wicket he kept on losing his wicket to him which played  a major role first ever 3 series white wash at home. I only look at aesthetics in Tests. Kela, Gill, Sundar, Jaiswal are aesthetically pleasing to watch

Edited November 20, 2025 by vvvslaxman

[Sooda]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

You can deal with this by just checking cricinfo every  1 hour instead of watching it lol. I like watching hard grind like Jaddu and SUndar did at Old trafford. I am saturated with six  a minute in IPL and other T20 matches.  ONly because of stupid batting by SMith and Brook India won at Edgbaston.  Only because of Pant's hoick at the MCG we lost. This is a double edged sword.  You could lose a test because of one stupid shot.

 

I think there is a bigger point here in that , we keep going into a shell when chasing fourth innings totals even small ones 

 

Why aren't we able to sweep and reverse sweep spinners off their line be proactive rather than waiting for a ball to get us out 

 

Even a brisk 20 or 30 can change the momentum of the whole innings 

 

But we try to defend with poor technique, opposition bowlers can keep plugging away on those good areas with men close to the batsman 

[vvvslaxman]

8 minutes ago, Sooda said:

 

I think there is a bigger point here in that , we keep going into a shell when chasing fourth innings totals even small ones 

 

Why aren't we able to sweep and reverse sweep spinners off their line be proactive rather than waiting for a ball to get us out 

 

Even a brisk 20 or 30 can change the momentum of the whole innings 

 

But we try to defend with poor technique, opposition bowlers can keep plugging away on those good areas with men close to the batsman 

 

Jaiswal begs to differ with that. He invariably throws kitchen sink and gets out first over in a chase.  He has done this thrice in the last 3 or 4 tests. YOu should not play based on any template. Every batsman has to play to his strength. That's it. Everyone batsman has to do their job. Just because Pant fails you cannot expect jadeja or Sundar to turn into Pant. Same way Pant cannot suddenly turn into Pujara.  This is where we lose the plot.  Even in T20 you can collapse like we did in Asia cup final. Just present the best version of yourself. If 3 or 4 out of 7 batsmen click you invariably win. If you 6 batsmen fail you cannot blame the approach of one batsman who spends time. 

Edited November 20, 2025 by vvvslaxman

[Sooda]

11 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

We saw Rohit's "exciting cricket" against Matt henry. On a spin wicket he kept on losing his wicket to him which played  a major role first ever 3 series white wash at home. I only look at aesthetics in Tests. Kela, Gill, Sundar, Jaiswal are aesthetically pleasing to watch

 

We also chased down 190 in Ranchi Vs England powered by Rohit and Jaiswal positive start. Very very rare fourth innings chase

[Sooda]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Jaiswal begs to differ with that. He invariably throws kitchen sink and gets out first over in a chase.  He has done this thrice in the last 3 or 4 tests. YOu should not play based on any template. Every batsman has to play to his strength. That's it. Everyone batsman has to do their job. Just because Pant fails you cannot expect jadeja or Sundar to turn into Pant. Same way Pant cannot suddenly turn into Pujara.  This is where we lose the plot.  Even in T20 you can collapse like we did in Asia cup final. Just present the best version of yourself. If 3 or 4 out of 7 batsmen click you invariably win. If you 6 batsmen fail you cannot blame the approach of one batsman who spends time. 

 

Not expecting Jadeja and Sundar to turn into Pant , but equally, expecting more from Sundar than that tuk tuk performance he gave - sure he looked composed, but didn't he hit a six of Maharaj also. We needed some initiative a brisk innings from one or two bats rather than hanging back and waiting for that ball that has your name on it

 

Kotak was making this point also

 

That is the point I think, all of these guys are capable of it, in fact for most being aggressive is their natural game maybe aside from KL and Jadeja in tests, certainly none of them are Pujara

 

so it is a mindset thing 

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, Sooda said:

 

We also chased down 190 in Ranchi Vs England powered by Rohit and Jaiswal positive start. Very very rare fourth innings chase

 

Depends on conditions and bowling quality you are up against.  Jaiswal has failed equal number of times. If you want consistent approach you cannot go to both extremes. You have to strike a balance like what SA did in WTC final. Just punished the bad ball albeit pitch got easier. 

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, Sooda said:

 

Not expecting Jadeja and Sundar to turn into Pant , but equally, expecting more from Sundar than that tuk tuk performance he gave - sure he looked composed, but didn't he hit a six of Maharaj also. We needed some initiative a brisk innings from one or two bats rather than hanging back and waiting for that ball that has your name on it

 

Kotak was making this point also

 

That is the point I think, all of these guys are capable of it, in fact for most being aggressive is their natural game maybe aside from KL and Jadeja in tests, certainly none of them are Pujara

 

so it is a mindset thing 

 

I tis not Sundar's fault  Pant was looking clueless while trying to attack Harmar. HE couldn't even pick simple off spin. We invariably blame the one guy who looks in control while ignoring the 6 clueless guys surrounding him. Sundar is not Kapil dev to play counterattacking innings. He did play in a no lose situation. He can play. But he put a premium on his wicket.  It is very very hard to bat like Sundar than what the hacks try to do. You can easily try to attack and get out. 

[tapandrun]

Good topic.

Do not want to give specific reasons for certain player mentioned in the topic but below are major reasons in general not specific to any player/batter.

 

Main reasons are ::

 

You just need to watch a season of ranji and you will know. The 3 most productive shots in Ind domestic system are cover drive, flick of the pads and edges.

System by default incentives and promotes slow scoring batters.

Even the batters who plays at higher sr does not have complete game- Raina, Gangly, Shaw, Sehwag,....etc all had/has v.little to 0 leg-side game which is due to lack of proper pace bowler in Ind there is no1 who can pin them, bowl bouncers, the condition is that bad that a not so tall batter can get away with having no cut/hook/pull shots.

Till the recent up-take in t20 cricket previously if some1 goes in to the clubs the only thing coaches would tell you is to play along the ground, half of the time players would Only practice cover drives. keeping elbow high etc. No drills for cut shot/pull/hook.

Composition of most of the domestic sides are 2-dibbly dobbly pacers, few LA/RA finger spinners and may be 1 seamer with lively pace but not much exp. so he can prove to be costly.

One major factor is also the self preservation attitude of Ind batter at all levels and in all formats. Its more like they are trying to out-bat/outscore batters of their own team than to do it to opp. team-- Winning is not priority but having most runs in the team is priority.

Amount of runs matters more than quality of runs.

As a batter once you have played cover drives and flicks off the pads to these dibbly dobbly bowlers a new faster bowler with no exp will spray some ball  here and there you can score quick runs and then LA/RA  finger spinner would come and as batter one can just knock around as they are not turning it big.

Ind batters does not play/do not have many shots. How many Ind batters can play sweep/reverse sweep/ ramp etc ??

 

 

Due to various reasons low potential players stay for a longer time in Ind side, if they have backing they can stay for a v.log time and wont be removed if there is some big series or tournament loss.

 

Compounding to all these a proper bowling side of intnl quality can contain batters with some many limitation/lack of shots or poor vs. some type/kind of bowling 

 

And do not think its a direct reason but indirect reason- lack of knowledge of cricket/game in the viewers. As most of the fans have never been to nets themselves, played some proper cricket they donot know much and they make some of these player their favourite because of various reason based on 1 good game/ 1 good series and even when player is not intnl quality or has obvious weaknesses.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2025 by tapandrun

[vvvslaxman]

I prefer clutch players. Clutch players go above and beyond to save your team

 

Sundar debut test

Gabba

 

1st innings 186/6 -  added 123 runs

2nd innings 265/5 - added 53 runs  in 9 overs

 

Chennai second test.

 

 Joined at 192/5  added 33 with pant and then remained not out on 85 pushing score  to 337

 

Ahmedabad 

 

Joined pant at 146/6 Sundar added 113 with Pant and 106 with Axar.

 

IN the NZ series at wankhede

 

Came in at 204/7 and pushed score to 263 with brisk 38 in 36 balls

 

 

In the BGT 2024 at the MCG

 

Joined Reddy at 221/7 and added 127 for 8th wicket

 

At Birmingham

 

Joined GIll at 414/6 and added 144 and put the match beyond ENgland's grasp

 

Then quick 12 in 7 balls in the 2nd innings

 

At Old Trafford

 

With pant out of commission Englnad one wicket away from walking into tail. Joined 222/4 and added 203 with Jadeja.  He started slow and finished with a flourish

 

At Oval

 

Made an invaluable 50 at fast clip

 

All these things he did ostly at no.8 batting position.. Only once he batted at no.5 where he made 100

 

For the first time he batted at 3 where the highest total for any team was 189 he made the most runs, he faced the most number of balls. Let us bark at the guys who couldn't protect their wicket against seamers on a spinning wicket.

 

 

If you look at his knocks some knocks are fast knocks, some knocks are attrition knocks, some knocks are belligerent, some knocks are mixed.  He is a smart guy who knows what is risky what is not risky at a given point. Hence he is able to deliver under pressure time after time. HE also batted well in challenging conditions.

 

In this hackathan era it is very hard to find a batsman like Sundar who can go from one extreme to other. 

 

 

[maniac]

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

I prefer clutch players. Clutch players go above and beyond to save your team

 

Sundar debut test

Gabba

 

1st innings 186/6 -  added 123 runs

2nd innings 265/5 - added 53 runs  in 9 overs

 

Chennai second test.

 

 Joined at 192/5  added 33 with pant and then remained not out on 85 pushing score  to 337

 

Ahmedabad 

 

Joined pant at 146/6 Sundar added 113 with Pant and 106 with Axar.

 

IN the NZ series at wankhede

 

Came in at 204/7 and pushed score to 263 with brisk 38 in 36 balls

 

 

In the BGT 2024 at the MCG

 

Joined Reddy at 221/7 and added 127 for 8th wicket

 

At Birmingham

 

Joined GIll at 414/6 and added 144 and put the match beyond ENgland's grasp

 

Then quick 12 in 7 balls in the 2nd innings

 

At Old Trafford

 

With pant out of commission Englnad one wicket away from walking into tail. Joined 222/4 and added 203 with Jadeja.  He started slow and finished with a flourish

 

At Oval

 

Made an invaluable 50 at fast clip

 

All these things he did ostly at no.8 batting position.. Only once he batted at no.5 where he made 100

 

For the first time he batted at 3 where the highest total for any team was 189 he made the most runs, he faced the most number of balls. Let us bark at the guys who couldn't protect their wicket against seamers on a spinning wicket.

 

 

If you look at his knocks some knocks are fast knocks, some knocks are attrition knocks, some knocks are belligerent, some knocks are mixed.  He is a smart guy who knows what is risky what is not risky at a given point. Hence he is able to deliver under pressure time after time. HE also batted well in challenging conditions.

 

In this hackathan era it is very hard to find a batsman like Sundar who can go from one extreme to other. 

 

 

sundar is a bowler who can bat very well. He can get a pair in both innings but his utility would be a minimum of 3-4 wickets per match or a long workhorse economic spell to hold a line up. As an allrounder maybe he is expected to score quick runs or play a defensive match saving knock. That’s ok, those are bonuses.

 

as a pure 1-1 bat I wouldn’t pick Sundar over Pujara but  add his bowling his utility becomes undeniable.

 

he better focus on bowling and his tuk tuk or ability to smoke a couple of balls  has great utility in the lower middle order but don’t see a number 3 batsman here.

Edited November 21, 2025 by maniac

[vvvslaxman]

10 minutes ago, maniac said:

sundar is a bowler who can bat very well. He can get a pair in both innings but his utility would be a minimum of 3-4 wickets per match or a long workhorse economic spell to hold a line up. As an allrounder maybe he is expected to score quick runs or play a defensive match saving knock. That’s ok, those are bonuses.

 

as a pure 1-1 bat I wouldn’t pick Sundar over Pujara but  add his bowling his utility becomes undeniable.

 

he better focus on bowling and his tuk tuk or ability to smoke a couple of balls  has great utility in the lower middle order but don’t see a number 3 batsman here.

I don't see him as no.3 either. But he is the kind of batsman who can smack a few sixes when needed. He can also buckle down and build big partnerships like 100 partnership. He can also start slow and gather momentum. He also has very good technique against short ball and spin. I don't think we have any batsmen with al lthe attributes. You are talking about PUjara at his peak. Towards the end he was getting owned by Leach. Even in Bangladesh chasing 145 he was clueless. Left India hanging at 74/7.  Everyone has certain attributes. THey have to work within those limitations. We can't send ABhishek sharma, Sanju samson, prabhsimran to stest. We will be all out for 35 runs more frequently.

[maniac]

6 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

I don't see him as no.3 either. But he is the kind of batsman who can smack a few sixes when needed. He can also buckle down and build big partnerships like 100 partnership. He can also start slow and gather momentum. He also has very good technique against short ball and spin. I don't think we have any batsmen with al lthe attributes. You are talking about PUjara at his peak. Towards the end he was getting owned by Leach. Even in Bangladesh chasing 145 he was clueless. Left India hanging at 74/7.  Everyone has certain attributes. THey have to work within those limitations. We can't send ABhishek sharma, Sanju samson, prabhsimran to stest. We will be all out for 35 runs more frequently.

Please don’t compare Prabhsmiran to Abhishek or even Sanju lol.

 

yes Sanju is not fit for test cricket with a lot of weaknesses.

 

however don’t underestimate Abhishek Sharma. He is not some ordinary slogger. His strokemaking is quality. He also has a Sehwag level balance and defense so it’s just a matter of application format to format and learning along the way.

 

someone like Vaibhav is far from test cricket still, however punt can be taken on  Abhishek, he will give that extra utility spinner so that we don’t have to play both Washington and Axar and I think he can also bat at 5-6 (2nd new ball) in tests. 
 

Don’t club him with other hacks.

[maniac]

Rinku Singh is another guy who has a stellar FC record, proven clutch temperament, also will raise the fielding levels too and always energetic. Why not? There you go @vvvslaxman Abhishek Sharma, Rinku Singh and even Tilak (who I feel will tuk tuk in tests  ). There you go, I gave you 3 modern era names.